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InvisibleSimplepowa
In Pursuit of Knowledge


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 4,310
Court officially declares Bitcoin a real currency
    #18706287 - 08/14/13 08:55 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

rt.com
Published time: August 08, 2013 15:54
Edited time: August 09, 2013 15:17

A federal judge has for the first time ruled that Bitcoin is a legitimate currency, opening up the possibility for the digital crypto-cash to soon be regulated by governmental overseers.

United States Magistrate Judge Amos Mazzant for the Eastern District of Texas ruled Tuesday that the US Securities and Exchange Commission can proceed with a lawsuit against the operator of a Bitcoin-based hedge fund because, despite existing only on the digital realm, “Bitcoin is a currency or form of money.”

Trendon Shavers of Bitcoin Savings & Trust (BTCST) was accused last year of scamming customers out of roughly $4.5 million worth of the cryptocurrency through his online hedge-fund. Shavers promised investors a weekly return of 7 percent, according to the federal complaint, but shut-down his site after collecting upwards of 700,000 bitcoins. When the SEC charged Shavers last month with operating a Ponzi scheme, he fought back by saying Bitcoin is not actual currency and can’t be regulated.

“The SEC asserts that Shavers made a number of misrepresentations to investors regarding the nature of the investments and that he defrauded investors. However, the question currently before the Court is whether the BTCST investments in this case are securities as defined by Federal Securities Laws,” Judge Mazzant wrote this week. “Shavers argues that the BTCST investments are not securities because Bitcoin is not money, and is not part of anything regulated by the United States. Shavers also contends that his transactions were all Bitcoin transactions and that no money ever exchanged hands. The SEC argues that the BTCST investments are both investment contracts and notes, and, thus, are securities.”

Despite Shavers’ argument, Mazzant weighed in this week with an opinion that’s not only quite the contrary, but could have widespread repercussions in the world of Bitcoin.

“It is clear that Bitcoin can be used as money,” Mazzant wrote. “It can be used to purchase goods or services, and as Shavers stated, used to pay for individual living expenses. The only limitation of Bitcoin is that it is limited to those places that accept it as currency. However, it can also be exchanged for conventional currencies, such as the US dollar, Euro, Yen and Yuan. Therefore, Bitcoin is a currency or form of money, and investors wishing to invest in BTCST provided an investment of money.”

Bitcoin investments "meet the definition of investment contract, and as such, are securities,” the judge added.

Now with the magistrate’s blessing, the SEC can continue with its case against Shavers and his site. With that same ruling, though, the government is for now getting the go ahead for what could lead to the rampant regulation of Bitcoin.

“The ruling, while certainly a victory for the Commission, is also likely to have farther-reaching ramifications as federal regulators increasingly encounter investment fraud based on non-traditional investment vehicles,” securities and business law attorney Jordan Maglich wrote in a Forbes op-ed this week.

“The case is notable in several aspects. First, it is the first known enforcement action predicated on a Bitcoin-based investment scheme, and comes at a time when US and foreign governments are devoting increasing scrutiny to the unregulated nature of the Bitcoin currency structure. In addition to these issues, the case may also have deeper ramifications going forward. Indeed, the case comes as federal regulators are increasingly tasked with policing non-traditional investments that share few characteristics with traditional investment vehicles such as stocks and notes,” Maglich wrote.

Even if this week’s ruling is a landmark decision with regards to Bitcoin, it certainly isn’t the first time as of late Uncle Sam intervened in the digital marketplace. In May, the US Department of Homeland Security seized a payment processing account Tuesday belonging to the largest international Bitcoin trader, claiming the monetary exchange service falsified financial documents.

http://rt.com/usa/bitcoin-sec-shavers-texas-231/


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Invisiblegreencrush420
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Registered: 04/14/13
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Re: Court officially declares Bitcoin a real currency [Re: Simplepowa] * 1
    #18706321 - 08/14/13 09:02 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Fuck, now they're going after the Bitcoin.

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InvisiblePanick
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Registered: 08/27/12
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Re: Court officially declares Bitcoin a real currency [Re: greencrush420]
    #18706352 - 08/14/13 09:07 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

So?  They regulate ten dollar bills, and I used those to buy dimesacks just fine.

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Invisiblegreencrush420
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Re: Court officially declares Bitcoin a real currency [Re: Panick]
    #18706392 - 08/14/13 09:15 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Ten dollar bills don't leave an electronic trail. Plus, everyone uses ten dollar bills. Not everyone purchases bitcoins, transfers them to someone else, and receives a mysterious package in the mail days later.
In addition to that, how long do you think it will take them to figure out who the vendors are? The guys cashing in thousands of dollars worth of bitcoins everyday are going to stick out, and bitcoin traders have to cooperate with their efforts to regulate the currency now, which mean you are no longer going to be anonymous.

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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Court officially declares Bitcoin a real currency [Re: greencrush420]
    #18706605 - 08/14/13 09:55 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

greencrush420 said:
Fuck, now they're going after the Bitcoin.



makes me think they're gearing up for an attempt at regulating the silk road.

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Invisiblegreencrush420
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Re: Court officially declares Bitcoin a real currency [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #18706636 - 08/14/13 10:01 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

rbalzer said:
Quote:

greencrush420 said:
Fuck, now they're going after the Bitcoin.



makes me think they're gearing up for an attempt at regulating the silk road.



Oh yeah, I bet they would love that. Hopefully it doesn't work out for them.

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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Court officially declares Bitcoin a real currency [Re: greencrush420]
    #18706658 - 08/14/13 10:04 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

greencrush420 said:
Quote:

rbalzer said:
Quote:

greencrush420 said:
Fuck, now they're going after the Bitcoin.



makes me think they're gearing up for an attempt at regulating the silk road.



Oh yeah, I bet they would love that. Hopefully it doesn't work out for them.



oh i bet its driving them nuts. It's an inspiration that the internet is out of the governments reach.

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OfflineSleeveOfWizard
Meow. Like a boss..


Registered: 05/16/08
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Re: Court officially declares Bitcoin a real currency [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #18706757 - 08/14/13 10:20 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

They arent going after bitcoin, they are going after a hedge fund operator who simply used bitcoins in an attempt to skirt legal repercussions from stealing alot of money.

I think this could actually be good for bitcoin. Dont worry, it still has no governing body.

Edited by SleeveOfWizard (08/14/13 10:21 PM)

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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Court officially declares Bitcoin a real currency [Re: SleeveOfWizard]
    #18706781 - 08/14/13 10:23 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

SleeveOfWizard said:
They arent going after bitcoin, they are going after a hedge fund operator who simply used bitcoins in an attempt to skirt legal repercussions from stealing alot of money.

I think this could actually be good for bitcoin. Dont worry, it still has no governing body.



They're still establishing a precedent that could be used in a future case against the silk road or other bit coin using businesses.  It could be part of a bigger plan, who knows. Its definitely speculation though :lol:

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OfflineLoveYourLife
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Registered: 08/05/09
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Re: Court officially declares Bitcoin a real currency [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #18706863 - 08/14/13 10:37 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

People will probably just start using lite coins. They're already using them as an alternative on Atlantis (the other tor black market)

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Invisiblewildernessjunkie
Reshitivest
I'm a teapot


Registered: 06/13/10
Posts: 8,118
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Re: Court officially declares Bitcoin a real currency [Re: greencrush420]
    #18707321 - 08/15/13 12:26 AM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

greencrush420 said:
Ten dollar bills don't leave an electronic trail. Plus, everyone uses ten dollar bills. Not everyone purchases bitcoins, transfers them to someone else, and receives a mysterious package in the mail days later.
In addition to that, how long do you think it will take them to figure out who the vendors are? The guys cashing in thousands of dollars worth of bitcoins everyday are going to stick out, and bitcoin traders have to cooperate with their efforts to regulate the currency now, which mean you are no longer going to be anonymous.





I think that maybe you dont fully understand how bitcoin works.

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OfflineMycjunky
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Registered: 07/25/09
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Re: Court officially declares Bitcoin a real currency [Re: Simplepowa]
    #18707333 - 08/15/13 12:31 AM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Sounds to me like they want to call it a currency so that they can regulate it. Which means they can destroy it as it's competition.

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InvisibleLe_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
Re: Court officially declares Bitcoin a real currency [Re: greencrush420]
    #18707336 - 08/15/13 12:33 AM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

greencrush420 said:
Ten dollar bills don't leave an electronic trail. Plus, everyone uses ten dollar bills. Not everyone purchases bitcoins, transfers them to someone else, and receives a mysterious package in the mail days later.
In addition to that, how long do you think it will take them to figure out who the vendors are? The guys cashing in thousands of dollars worth of bitcoins everyday are going to stick out, and bitcoin traders have to cooperate with their efforts to regulate the currency now, which mean you are no longer going to be anonymous.




That is exactly what they want to accomplish with this, no doubt.

Edited by Le_Canard (08/15/13 12:43 AM)

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Offlinesomething cool
meandering

Registered: 01/30/12
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Re: Court officially declares Bitcoin a real currency [Re: Le_Canard]
    #18707357 - 08/15/13 12:40 AM (10 years, 9 months ago)

The fall of Bitcoin, the rise of Litecoin. They'll just keep moving to new digicurrencies if old ones get regulated.

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OfflinegrimR
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Re: Court officially declares Bitcoin a real currency [Re: Le_Canard]
    #18707521 - 08/15/13 01:56 AM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Def not good.


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Offlineegodeathflux
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Re: Court officially declares Bitcoin a real currency [Re: Simplepowa]
    #18708043 - 08/15/13 07:36 AM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Sounds to me as though it is a step towards BTC being officially recognised, and if regulated then so be it.

For those living outside the US (UK in particular) it may actually make buying BTC easier, at the moment it is an expensive and complicated pain in the ass, not just a trip down to CVS or 7/11 etc. As it stands UK residents are forced to purchase them from abroad, usually with insane charges and exchange rates attached.

I would like to see BTC more readily available to the public, it could reduce the fees etc, and the use of tumblers plus the inherent anonymity of BTC remains regardless.

Also, as others have stated, if they clamp down on BTC/SR etc, something else will pop up elsewhere soon enough to replace it. Governments are fighting a losing battle if they want to try and control/trace digi-currencies I think.

:popcorn:


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OfflineSleeveOfWizard
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Re: Court officially declares Bitcoin a real currency [Re: egodeathflux]
    #18708261 - 08/15/13 08:50 AM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Just because a US judge declares BitCoin as a legal currency DOES NOT mean that the US government can begin regulating it. As stated before, ButCoin has no governing body. The government can only do 2 things the threaten BitCoin

1. Go after it creators, this is the easy route, and they will try this. But all the creators need to do is move their main location to another country to evade US laws (which I think has aready been done)

2. They can regulate how US dollars are transferred into BitCoins. Most likely attempting to track who is buying BitCoins. Again this makes no difference because they are transferred/encrypted so much, they still wont know where youre spending them.

They arent trying to get BitCoins, they just want to make sure they still get their dollars. The one thing the Gov't doesnt like about BitCoin is the ability to evade taxes on those funds. They will try to get their cut somehow..

Eventually in a few years they may be able to develop servers that are used to trace BitCoin transactions, but currently they cannot as there are thousands of encryptions processed every minute on thousands of different computers. It would be hard enough to try to track a single BitCoin wallet, let alon all the currency in circulation.

BitCoin mining adds even more complications to the mix.

I'm not saying its a safe/stable market to buy into. And having no governing body does have its drawbacks (because if the bottom falls out, it can drop to zero, which the dollar cant do only because of law) All I'm saying is that BitCoin and the Silk Road arent going anywhere anytime soon...


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Invisiblegreencrush420
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Re: Court officially declares Bitcoin a real currency [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #18708555 - 08/15/13 10:45 AM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

wildernessjunkie said:
Quote:

greencrush420 said:
Ten dollar bills don't leave an electronic trail. Plus, everyone uses ten dollar bills. Not everyone purchases bitcoins, transfers them to someone else, and receives a mysterious package in the mail days later.
In addition to that, how long do you think it will take them to figure out who the vendors are? The guys cashing in thousands of dollars worth of bitcoins everyday are going to stick out, and bitcoin traders have to cooperate with their efforts to regulate the currency now, which mean you are no longer going to be anonymous.





I think that maybe you dont fully understand how bitcoin works.



No, I understand, and I realize that the transaction itself is currently untraceable, at least as far as we know. However, they could potentially use this court decision as a stepping stone towards outright regulation, which means that while they may not know HOW or WHERE you are spending your bitcoins, they will know THAT you are spending bitcoins, which could make you a target. After all, not many people use bitcoin.
Same goes for vendors, they may not be able to trace the transaction, but they could potentially monitor how many bitcoins someone is cashing in, thereby allowing them to identify vendors. This is all, of course, hypothetical.
They're changing tactics, they couldn't trace the transaction, so now they appear to be making a run at monitoring the currency itself.

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Invisiblewildernessjunkie
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Re: Court officially declares Bitcoin a real currency [Re: greencrush420]
    #18709361 - 08/15/13 02:21 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Here's how I see it.

I go to my local Walmart and buy a money pack with cash. I exchange that money pack for bitcoins online, deposited into a wallet that is not MtGox. Then I put the funds in an account at SR/BMR/Atl.

Maybe I buy a bunch of items, or become a vendor; regardless I end up with extra coins when its all said and done. I take those coins, shuffle them a couple times, then either exchange them for gold or cash them out to a vendor that exchanges bitcoins for cash.

I started with anonymous cash, and ended up with anonymous cash. In the middle existed an anonymous wallet, some purchases made by an anonymous person, then a perfectly legal exchange of bitcoins to cash or gold.

The weakness in the system is that you have to give your address to the vendor. Luckily we have ratings and escrow to police shadiness ( to an extent).

If bitcoin falls, there's litecoin. There are also other cryptocurrencies as well. Peercoin , Namecoin a couple of others as well.

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Invisible4runner
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Re: Court officially declares Bitcoin a real currency [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #18709447 - 08/15/13 02:39 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Here is an interesting article..
It's a national security iussue, wahoo.

Quote:


Bitcoin laws are coming: US Senate launches virty currency probe
Who can regulate it and how?
By Neil McAllister, 14th August 2013

The heat is on for Bitcoin and other virtual currencies in the US, with lawmakers at the highest levels of government now actively investigating how to regulate the upstart digital monies.

On Tuesday, the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs sent letters to a number of prominent federal regulatory bodies, asking them what policies or procedures they had in place to prevent criminals from using virtual currencies for nefarious ends.

The Washington Post reports that identical letters were sent to the Commodities Futures Trading Commission, the Department of Homeland Security, the Department of Justice, the Department of Treasury, the Federal Reserve, the Office of Management and Budget, and the Securities and Exchange Commission.

"[Virtual currencies] can be sent nearly anonymously, leaving little or no trail for regulators or enforcement agencies," the committee's letter reads in part. "Their near anonymous and decentralized nature has also attracted criminals who value few things more than being allowed to operate in the shadows."

The senators' comments echoed a memo issued on Tuesday by Benjamin Lawsky, superintendent of the New York Department of Financial Services, that state's top banking regulator.

Lawsky's memo, which was addressed to a variety of companies and investors involved in the Bitcoin business, described virtual currencies as "a virtual Wild West for narcotraffickers and other criminals," and suggested that without regulatory oversight they could become a threat to US national security.

With policymakers at both the state and federal levels now scrutinizing Bitcoin, it seems inevitable that virtual currencies will come under some kind of formal regulation eventually. To what extent regulators and law enforcement will actually be able to police their rules, however, remains unclear.

Bitcoin and other digital currencies were designed to be anonymous and for their markets to operate outside of governmental interference. And users of Silk Road and other Bitcoin-based underground economies routinely employ additional encryption and obfuscation measures to make tracing the flow of funds extremely difficult, if not impossible.

Criminals or revolutionaries – or both?

In a rare interview with Forbes magazine published on Wednesday, the current operator of Silk Road – who goes only by the handle "The Dread Pirate Roberts" and says he isn't actually the service's founder – said Silk Road and the underground Bitcoin economy are as much about disrupting the global status quo as they are about illicit trade.

"What we're doing isn't about scoring drugs or 'sticking it to the man.' It's about standing up for our rights as human beings and refusing to submit when we've done no wrong," Roberts told the magazine. "Silk Road is a vehicle for that message. All else is secondary."

But not every Bitcoin trader sympathizes with Roberts's lofty political ideals, and US law enforcement definitely does not agree that participants in the Bitcoin economy have done no wrong.

It's been reported that as many as three quarters of all transactions on Silk Road are for illegal drugs, including cocaine and heroin. And competing services don't share Silk Road's qualms about offering listings for other types of illicit goods, such as guns, malware kits, stolen goods, cloned credit cards, or child pornography.

Meanwhile, the US Securities and Exchange Commission has charged a Texas man with securities fraud after he allegedly bilked gullible investors out of millions of dollars' worth of Bitcoin, and cops reportedly seized a South Carolina man's Bitcoin wallet during a drug raid in April.

Nonetheless, Silk Road's Dread Pirate Roberts insists that the government's present focus on criminal activities associated with virtual currencies is really just a distraction from the real elephant in the room.

"We're talking about the potential for a monumental shift in the power structure of the world," Roberts told Forbes. "The people now can control the flow and distribution of information and the flow of money. Sector by sector the State is being cut out of the equation and power is being returned to the individual."

If those truly are the stakes, however, all the more reason to ask not whether the US government plans to bring the hammer down on Bitcoin, but when.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/08/14/us_senate_bitcoin_probe/




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