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Anonymous

communism vs. socialism vs. the welfare state
    #1865382 - 08/30/03 12:24 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

people have been using these words interchangeably, but they aren't the same thing.

communism is a state in which there is very, very little or no government. resources, capital, and property are voluntarily shared amongst society.

in socialism, there is a strong central government that manages the economy. resources, capital, and property are in the control of the government and the government controls production and distribution of wealth, purportedly with economic equality in mind.

also, allowing free enterprise but taxing the hell out of people for social programs is not socialism nor communism.


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Offlinewingnutx
Registered: 09/25/00
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Re: communism vs. socialism vs. the welfare state [Re: ]
    #1865449 - 08/30/03 12:45 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

that is generally called market socialism.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: communism vs. socialism vs. the welfare state [Re: ]
    #1865765 - 08/30/03 02:40 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I could be wrong, but I'm fairly sure you got the definitions for communism and socialism mixed up there, mushmaster. I have always thought that communism was the system in which resources are managed by a strong central government, and socialism is where there is no government and people share.

anyway, most isms are completly meaningless once they get spun a million different directions by a million different people. I dont believe its possible to accurately represent something as complex as an entire society/system of government/economy with just a single word.


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peace, pot, and microdot!


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Offlinemonoamine
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Registered: 09/07/02
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Re: communism vs. socialism vs. the welfare state [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1866531 - 08/30/03 07:23 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

what he said


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


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Anonymous

Re: communism vs. socialism vs. the welfare state [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1866545 - 08/30/03 07:27 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I could be wrong, but I'm fairly sure you got the definitions for communism and socialism mixed up there, mushmaster.

i'm afraid you are.

anyway, most isms are completly meaningless once they get spun a million different directions by a million different people. I dont believe its possible to accurately represent something as complex as an entire society/system of government/economy with just a single word.

there's a limit to how well language (symbols) can represent reality. we do our best.


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Invisiblesir tripsalot
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Re: communism vs. socialism vs. the welfare state [Re: ]
    #1866563 - 08/30/03 07:37 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Communism is where the goverenment owns everything and controls the society.


Communism-A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.


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"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.


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Anonymous

Re: communism vs. socialism vs. the welfare state [Re: sir tripsalot]
    #1866585 - 08/30/03 07:52 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

as marx described it, communism is the final step in the worker's revolution. it is after the 'dictatorship of the proletariat' (socialist dictatorship) phase when the government "withers and dies". it is a communal utopian society.

china, the USSR, north korea, cuba, and vietnam are\were not communist countries. they never made it out of the dictatorship of the proletariat phase.


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Invisiblesir tripsalot
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Re: communism vs. socialism vs. the welfare state [Re: ]
    #1866613 - 08/30/03 08:03 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

You take it up with dictionary.com then.


--------------------

"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.


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Anonymous

Re: communism vs. socialism vs. the welfare state [Re: sir tripsalot]
    #1866626 - 08/30/03 08:07 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

and in the meantime, you can take it up with karl marx.


oooooooooooohhhh... snap! sir tripsalot... don't you belong in OTD?  :tongue:

i think socialist\communist literature is a better source for descriptions of socialist\communist ideas than the dictionary is, no?


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OfflineCornholio
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Re: communism vs. socialism vs. the welfare state [Re: ]
    #1866854 - 08/30/03 10:06 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Actually, Marxism is only one type of communism. China, Vietnam, and Cuba wouldn't be considered communist countries by Marx, but they are considered communist by their own respective Governments and by the US Government as well.


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Invisiblesir tripsalot
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Re: communism vs. socialism vs. the welfare state [Re: ]
    #1866978 - 08/30/03 11:07 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

i think socialist\communist literature is a better source for descriptions of socialist\communist ideas than the dictionary is, no?





You talk like a dirty frenchman stinky. Dictionary or Mushmaster..... ones the ultimate source for words meanings and the other is just a thick book. Oh snap what to choose?


--------------------

"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: communism vs. socialism vs. the welfare state [Re: sir tripsalot]
    #1867290 - 08/31/03 01:09 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

how many times will I have to say this?



ISMS ARE BUNK!!!!!!!!!!!


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineMalachi
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Registered: 06/19/02
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Re: communism vs. socialism vs. the welfare state [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1867474 - 08/31/03 02:35 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

"isms" aren't "bunk", they're words. words aren't "bunk" just because bullshit surrounds them.

mushmaster makes a very good point. the welfare state is pretty hard to defend. reaching social justice goals via so-called "market socialism" or whatever you want to call it is a very half assed solution. a true free market would be much better for bizniz, whereas a communistic gov't would be egalitarian. what to do, oh what to do?? well, we can start by clarifying terms, like in any discourse. and stop writing drunken posts. that too.


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The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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