Home | Community | Message Board


MushroomCube.com
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Science and Technology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineHagbardCeline
Student-Teacher-Student-Teacher
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/10/03
Posts: 9,820
Loc: Overjoyed, at the bottom ...
Last seen: 2 days, 5 hours
Designing Codes, Possible to make undecipherable?
    #1864320 - 08/30/03 01:06 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Have any of you ever designed a code? I am more specifically talking about written code, but I guess it could carry over to an electronic one.

I used to make them all the time. It's fun to start thinking about all of the permutations you can apply to the code.

My best ones were codes within codes (and so on, with many easy, misleading pots of gold), that relied on the calendar, and important events.

I am going to try and dig some out to show you guys. But any way, do you think that you could design one that could not be cracked? (at least not by anything less than an quantum computer, because I beleive that would likely be impossible)


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinerommstein2001
Rise ye Must!
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 3,182
Loc: South GA
Last seen: 1 month, 3 days
Re: Designing Codes, Possible to make undecipherable? [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #1864327 - 08/30/03 01:09 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Is this the right forum? Anyways when I fuck with encrypting shit, i first number the letters 1-26, randomly assign each a number, thats the first layer, then I think of a simple math problem, like /2 or *3, and add that, etc etc. so it gets all mixed up, lol.


--------------------



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineHagbardCeline
Student-Teacher-Student-Teacher
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/10/03
Posts: 9,820
Loc: Overjoyed, at the bottom ...
Last seen: 2 days, 5 hours
Re: Designing Codes, Possible to make undecipherable? [Re: rommstein2001]
    #1864348 - 08/30/03 01:15 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

It may not be, but I don't think I will get any thing but worthless answer anywhere else. This is the only place that seems liked the posters here would relate with.


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisible2Experimental
Male User Gallery
Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 18,073
Re: Designing Codes, Possible to make undecipherable? [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #1864501 - 08/30/03 02:22 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

im intrested in this...


there is this guy like a while ago who left 3 codes to desipher before he died, and who-ever figured it out, it was the location of like a ton of money in todays time in gold and stuff. people have figured out the first 2 codes, but no one around the world can figure out the 3rd... this may seem fake, but its true... i read it in a recent book called something like(?) " most intresting unknown facts 1998 ... post some codes that you made so I can practice and learn and desipher the 3rd code and get rich :smile:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinemr_kite
The Watcher
Male

Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 2,577
Loc: shambhala
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
Re: Designing Codes, Possible to make undecipherable? [Re: 2Experimental]
    #1865198 - 08/30/03 09:30 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Encryption's a fascinating subject... I've been reading a book primarily about PGP (Pretty Good Privacy) and there was a mention of that gold treaure trove. The first code used the Declaration of Independance I think, the guy who cracked it just guessed that randomly after thinking it could be linked to a text. Some people don't believe the third code is genuine, but I reckon it probably is. Quite a tough way to get rich though!


--------------------
let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinemr_kite
The Watcher
Male

Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 2,577
Loc: shambhala
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
Re: Designing Codes, Possible to make undecipherable? [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #1865199 - 08/30/03 09:34 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

........what I was gonna say, was read up about PGP. That's a method of encryption virtually impossible to crack.


--------------------
let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Designing Codes, Possible to make undecipherable? [Re: mr_kite]
    #1865760 - 08/30/03 02:38 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Big prime numbers... you can bet the US government has a handle on the latest primes....


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Designing Codes, Possible to make undecipherable? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1865847 - 08/30/03 03:20 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Actually, it's big composite numbers with two prime factors that are very hard to find.

-Diploid


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisible2Experimental
Male User Gallery
Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 18,073
Re: Designing Codes, Possible to make undecipherable? [Re: Diploid]
    #1865865 - 08/30/03 03:29 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I bet the third code is based off like a colection of numbers that were personal to him(birthdates, ect) and the only way to crack it is to know the numbers in the right order... it could be something like that... just goes to show you how complex codes can be.. I think :spliff: 


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Designing Codes, Possible to make undecipherable? [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #1866023 - 08/30/03 04:41 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Not to be anal, but you must define what you mean to be undecipherable.

Some codes may be deciphered after a period of time when they have no more uesefulness such as Gemany's Enigma machine. With a key changing daily, only codes broken for that day had any meaning to the Allies.

Sounds like you are talking about something from a pure academic view rather than a utilitarian view.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineentiformatie
EvolutionaryMovements
Male
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 1,043
Loc: miami, florida
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: Designing Codes, Possible to make undecipherable? [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #1866078 - 08/30/03 04:59 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

i would leave to see your codes :-) I was wondering about this too. Because I mean, you could just keep adding more and more intricacies to the code to the point that it'd be almost impossible to crack. But the possibility is still there.


--------------------
/opinion
.sean


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineHagbardCeline
Student-Teacher-Student-Teacher
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/10/03
Posts: 9,820
Loc: Overjoyed, at the bottom ...
Last seen: 2 days, 5 hours
Re: Designing Codes, Possible to make undecipherable? [Re: Swami]
    #1866085 - 08/30/03 05:02 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Your not being anal, I didn't clarify it.

When I said could it be cracked, I did mean by a computer. That was why I was saying by something less than a quantum computer. I think that those could theoretically crack any code once the technology has evolved.

But what I was talking about is designing a code, that you write and decipher by hand, that doesn't rely on a machine or computer to either encode or decode. And could that code be cracked by a computer. I think it's possible to design an unbreakable code.

This does pose a philosophical question as well. What will the world be like when quantum computers do come of age? If they work as promised, nothing could be encrypted. If everyone had them, would there not be any privacy?


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


Edited by HagbardCeline (08/30/03 05:06 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineHagbardCeline
Student-Teacher-Student-Teacher
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/10/03
Posts: 9,820
Loc: Overjoyed, at the bottom ...
Last seen: 2 days, 5 hours
Re: Designing Codes, Possible to make undecipherable? [Re: entiformatie]
    #1866108 - 08/30/03 05:08 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I want to see them too.  :laugh:

I haven't seen them in almost 10 years.  I have to go to my mother's house though.  I think they are in my old bedroom stuffed in some boxes.  She lives over an hour away though.  It's not too far, I will probably go next weekend. 


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


Edited by HagbardCeline (08/30/03 05:09 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Designing Codes, Possible to make undecipherable? [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #1866207 - 08/30/03 05:29 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I believe that ANY code with a fixed key has the possibility of being deciphered, but one where the key is constantly and quasi-randomly shifted may not be. For example, I encode the word "t-h-e" as "x-y-z" then shift to a new key. The most powerful computer in the world could not decipher "xyz" as there is insufficient data to test on. The key could be as simple as using some fixed book and adding the letters. If the key is non-repeating and unknown, I fail to see how sheer computing power; even quantuum computers, could crack it. A separate book for inserting garbage (noise) would add to the complexity.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineentiformatie
EvolutionaryMovements
Male
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 1,043
Loc: miami, florida
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: Designing Codes, Possible to make undecipherable? [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #1866236 - 08/30/03 05:35 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

i guess if the code was nonrepeating, it would be impossible to crack, or be sure that you did crack it.

heh, ill patiently wait till next weekend when you get them codes :-)

can somebody please tell me what exactly quantum computers are? super fast or something?

yea, i guess a computer would find it impossible to crack certain varieties of codes, because there is so much to pick from to use, not only texts, but position of planets, or the positions of the hands on the clock, or even the position of something in the general vicinity that you would have to see with your eyes to crack the code.


--------------------
/opinion
.sean


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineHagbardCeline
Student-Teacher-Student-Teacher
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/10/03
Posts: 9,820
Loc: Overjoyed, at the bottom ...
Last seen: 2 days, 5 hours
Re: Designing Codes, Possible to make undecipherable? [Re: Swami]
    #1866242 - 08/30/03 05:36 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, codes that rely on books are nearly impossible to crack by themselves. It can be done, but usually only if you access to the books they are using, and lot's of trial and error.

I was designing some around an idea similiar to this, but using other sources instead of books.


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Designing Codes, Possible to make undecipherable? [Re: Swami]
    #1866350 - 08/30/03 06:11 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

but one where the key is constantly and quasi-randomly shifted may not be




That's called a One Time Pad and it is unbreakable if applied correctly. However, history is full of examples where One Time Pads were used incorrectly to the detriment of the sponsoring government.

-Diploid


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRhizoid
carbon unit
Male

Registered: 01/23/00
Posts: 1,722
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 12 days, 15 hours
Re: Designing Codes, Possible to make undecipherable? [Re: Diploid]
    #1867808 - 08/31/03 08:01 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

For those who are curious: The one-time pad is the only encryption that is provably unbreakable. The secret key must be at least as long as the message and completely random, so it can provide a random substitution of each letter in the message. A new key is used for the next message and so on, and this ensures that the encrypted text will never contain any patterns that can be distinguished from random data.

All the information resides in the correlation between the key and the encrypted message, none in the encrypted bits by themselves. Codes with shorter keys or reusable keys always store some of the encrypted information in patterns created by the bits in the encrypted message. Any such code can be broken if you have an algorithm that can use this information to reconstruct the decryption key.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinefredthetree
Stranger

Registered: 09/29/02
Posts: 473
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Designing Codes, Possible to make undecipherable? [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #1869003 - 08/31/03 07:51 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

color code

Hardly "uncrackable", but I did design it myself :smile:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineblahblah
Stranger
Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 16
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
Re: Designing Codes, Possible to make undecipherable? [Re: fredthetree]
    #1869124 - 08/31/03 08:43 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

A viable qubit comp sounds interesting. Quaternary processing is a huge technological jump from binary. Sounds like it doesn't process in linear steps.

The reason this is an exciting result is because this answer, derived from the massive quantum parallelism achieved through superposition, is the equivalent of performing the same operation on a classical super computer with ~10150 separate processors (which is of course impossible)!!

http://www.cs.caltech.edu/~westside/quantum-intro.html#power

formatting didn't work? the 10150 means 10 to the 150th power. That shows the theoretical, undisputable (yikes!) power of qubit computing.

encryption will be crackable much faster (understatement) than the current tech.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

General Interest >> Science and Technology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Apple's FairPlay Cryptosystem Cracked, duh DiploidM 869 3 11/06/06 10:33 AM
by junglejuice
* Microsoft DRM Cracked.... Again DiploidM 478 0 07/16/07 08:16 PM
by Diploid
* spaghettification of code...
( 1 2 all )
Annapurna1
2,040 34 10/08/08 06:12 PM
by ExplosiveMango
* wanna get weirded out and like codes/puzzles or know about web programming? TheWay 2,023 9 12/15/06 06:45 PM
by TheWay
* Software Developer Deciphers Shredded Paper's Code wingnutx 1,471 9 10/16/03 11:08 PM
by Joshua
* MD5 Hash Algorithm Cracked - Collisions Calculated In <24 Hours! DiploidM 1,216 17 01/11/09 02:56 AM
by TreeMoss
* HD-DVD Anti-copy Cryptosystem Cracked DiploidM 866 2 01/02/07 07:30 PM
by rod
* Program design help SeussA 1,316 8 05/04/07 11:11 AM
by phi1618

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Lana, trendal, Diploid, automan
2,976 topic views. 0 members, 4 guests and 2 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Edabea
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.052 seconds spending 0.003 seconds on 16 queries.