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Offlinehillbawl
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WTF? Inoculated/mashed in June, but NO PINS!!! HELP!
    #18640626 - 07/31/13 06:05 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

This is driving me CRAZY!!! This is my third failed attempt out of four with a grow bag (the only success being my first attempt, oddly enough), and every time the bag gets 90-100% colonized and looks totally fluffy and healthy, the growth stalls before pinning! My mycelium has been fluffing up for about a month (and on the 12/12 lights for most of that time) and looks great, but not one pin. Any ideas about the problem? They are John Allen strain, in a closet with a daylight bulb set on 12/12, room temp, seem moist and fluffy, no clear indication of contams.

Ideas I've been considering:
1) Cut open the top of the bag, fan/mist every day (although I have only done this after pinning occurs, in the past)
2) Set them near a southwest-facing window
3) Both of the above

Please help!!! Thank youuuuu! :smile:





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OfflineBigBalla23
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Re: WTF? Inoculated/mashed in June, but NO PINS!!! HELP! [Re: hillbawl]
    #18641193 - 07/31/13 07:51 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

I would suggest FAE. Also manually mist then fan so the water evaporates which is another pinning trigger. Best of luck :thumbup:


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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: WTF? Inoculated/mashed in June, but NO PINS!!! HELP! [Re: hillbawl]
    #18641340 - 07/31/13 08:26 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

That looks fully colonized to me.  Where are the spots you're talking about?

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OfflineBigBalla23
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Re: WTF? Inoculated/mashed in June, but NO PINS!!! HELP! [Re: Psilicon]
    #18641362 - 07/31/13 08:31 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

And IMO bags are about the worst way to grow


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Offlinehillbawl
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Re: WTF? Inoculated/mashed in June, but NO PINS!!! HELP! [Re: BigBalla23]
    #18645499 - 08/01/13 06:43 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

I'm beginning to see that bags suck, yes.... But I tried PF Tek and it was a flop (but I'm gonna try again because I know what some of the problems were). I just wanted to have a bag growing 'cause it seems so easy, but apparently it doesn't work so well.

Anyway, van der griegen: I'm not sure about to which "spots" you are referring.... Did I mention spots?

Thanks, BigBalla23!


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OfflineCalebd22
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Re: WTF? Inoculated/mashed in June, but NO PINS!!! HELP! [Re: hillbawl]
    #18645860 - 08/01/13 07:53 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Did you mention spots ?
Kinda question is that?
The words  are above re read?
You don't no what u just typed ? Lol :confused:

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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: WTF? Inoculated/mashed in June, but NO PINS!!! HELP! [Re: hillbawl]
    #18646563 - 08/01/13 10:09 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

The uncolonized portions.  Where are they?

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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: WTF? Inoculated/mashed in June, but NO PINS!!! HELP! [Re: Psilicon]
    #18646716 - 08/01/13 10:35 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Once you get the sub to 100% you need to expose it to fruiting conditions. You won't get many pins just leaving it sealed up in the bag. Cut the bag open and either remove the block and toss it in a FC or leave it to fruit in the bag. You will probably get better results fruiting it in a shotgun fruiting chamber than you will leaving it in the bag, but you won't get any results just leaving it there with no FAE.

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OfflineGreenRabbit
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Re: WTF? Inoculated/mashed in June, but NO PINS!!! HELP! [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #18647245 - 08/02/13 12:39 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

The people who sell these bags say you can fruit in the bag but there's no point to that. Bags aren't bad, once they are fully colonized you can take the substrate out and put it in a FC.

In bag fruiting is a waste of the substrate.

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OfflinePhosCap
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Re: WTF? Inoculated/mashed in June, but NO PINS!!! HELP! [Re: hillbawl]
    #18647307 - 08/02/13 12:53 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

At this point the mycelium is ready to burst pins but is missing fruiting conditions. Your best chance to get good fruits is to throw it in a SGFC.

If you still want to grow from the bag then i would rehydrate your medium.. pour a cup of water in there. I also notice there is no condensation on the walls of the bag, so mist the surface of your spawn\substrate so water can evaporate. Also open the top of the bag a few times a day for FAE


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: WTF? Inoculated/mashed in June, but NO PINS!!! HELP! [Re: PhosCap]
    #18647401 - 08/02/13 01:29 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

phosi said:
I also notice there is no condensation on the walls of the bag, so mist the surface of your spawn\substrate so water can evaporate.



You do realize that condensation is a result of a temperature differential, and it is in no way an indication of there being high humidity right?

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OfflineGreenRabbit
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Re: WTF? Inoculated/mashed in June, but NO PINS!!! HELP! [Re: PussyFart]
    #18647406 - 08/02/13 01:31 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

The bags done its job. Put the substrate in a fruiting chamber

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OfflinePhosCap
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Re: WTF? Inoculated/mashed in June, but NO PINS!!! HELP! [Re: PussyFart]
    #18647474 - 08/02/13 02:00 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

phosi said:
I also notice there is no condensation on the walls of the bag, so mist the surface of your spawn\substrate so water can evaporate.



You do realize that condensation is a result of a temperature differential, and it is in no way an indication of there being high humidity right?




Right.. I still don't know the proper terminology of what the water droplets are on the side of the walls, due to evaporation.
Humidity droplets?


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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: WTF? Inoculated/mashed in June, but NO PINS!!! HELP! [Re: PhosCap]
    #18647478 - 08/02/13 02:01 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

No, condensation is the proper term.  But it's because of temperature differentials, not humidity.

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Offlinevanislandshroomer
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Re: WTF? Inoculated/mashed in June, but NO PINS!!! HELP! [Re: PhosCap]
    #18647481 - 08/02/13 02:02 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
You do realize that condensation is a result of a temperature differential, and it is in no way an indication of there being high humidity right?




Just curious NAH, but what about a monotub? Doesn't a mono create a humid environment by retaining lost moisture inside the tub from evaporation off the substrate? Therefore providing proper RH levels and a self sustaining environment, hence the set and forget premise?
Quote:

phosi said:
Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

phosi said:
I also notice there is no condensation on the walls of the bag, so mist the surface of your spawn\substrate so water can evaporate.



You do realize that condensation is a result of a temperature differential, and it is in no way an indication of there being high humidity right?




Right.. I still don't know the proper terminology of what the water droplets are on the side of the walls, due to evaporation.
Humidity droplets?




Condensation


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: WTF? Inoculated/mashed in June, but NO PINS!!! HELP! [Re: vanislandshroomer]
    #18647506 - 08/02/13 02:15 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

The substrate in a monotub can create 10+ degrees of heat easily.

The humidity in a monotub comes from evaporation of water from the substrate.

The water droplets on the walls are not from evaporation, but from moisture condensing from a temperature differential.

When you take a beer out of the fridge, and 5 minutes later it is covered in condensation...is this from the humidity in your house, or from the temperature difference?

Or how about your house windows in the winter.....the insides of the windows form condensation, because of the temperature difference, not humidity.

There should always be condensation in a monotub, and never any condensation in a SGFC.

In a monotub, if there are dry rings around the polyfill stuffed holes, this is a sign that the tub is getting good FAE.

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Offlinevanislandshroomer
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Re: WTF? Inoculated/mashed in June, but NO PINS!!! HELP! [Re: PussyFart]
    #18647559 - 08/02/13 02:46 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
The substrate in a monotub can create 10+ degrees of heat easily.

The humidity in a monotub comes from evaporation of water from the substrate.

The water droplets on the walls are not from evaporation, but from moisture condensing from a temperature differential.

When you take a beer out of the fridge, and 5 minutes later it is covered in condensation...is this from the humidity in your house, or from the temperature difference?

Or how about your house windows in the winter.....the insides of the windows form condensation, because of the temperature difference, not humidity.

There should always be condensation in a monotub, and never any condensation in a SGFC.

In a monotub, if there are dry rings around the polyfill stuffed holes, this is a sign that the tub is getting good FAE.





What if all that condensation is trapped within a small space i.e. monotub, shouldn't there be plenty of moisture in the air in that space as well? And doesn't evaporation play at least a small role in creating condensation. It is considered a main pinning trigger, and in a monotub, there isn't really anywhere for the evap to dissipate to except on the walls and lid of the monotub. I understand, loose polyfill in the top holes assists in FEA and likely evaporation from the substrate. But one would assume that in an enclosed space such as a mono, that condensation on the walls and lid, and at an appropriate temperature would be an indication of a humid environment?

Thanks for the input! :super:


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: WTF? Inoculated/mashed in June, but NO PINS!!! HELP! [Re: PussyFart]
    #18648667 - 08/02/13 10:24 AM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

vanislandshroomer said:
What if all that condensation is trapped within a small space i.e. monotub, shouldn't there be plenty of moisture in the air in that space as well?



There should be, if there is good AE.

Quote:

vanislandshroomer said:
And doesn't evaporation play at least a small role in creating condensation. It is considered a main pinning trigger, and in a monotub, there isn't really anywhere for the evap to dissipate to except on the walls and lid of the monotub.



No, evaporation has nothing to do with condensation.

It being a main pinning trigger is irrelevant.

In a monotub, there should be constant FAE, which means constant evaporation, which means constant humidity, if the polyfill is stuffed right.

The condensation has nothing to do with this, as there would still be condensation if the internal humidity was 10%, or 90%.....because of the heat the substrate is generating.

Quote:

vanislandshroomer said:
I understand, loose polyfill in the top holes assists in FEA and likely evaporation from the substrate. But one would assume that in an enclosed space such as a mono, that condensation on the walls and lid, and at an appropriate temperature would be an indication of a humid environment?



Loose polyfill in the top, and tight in the bottom, promotes proper air circulation in the tub.

Condensation is not an indicator of there being a humid environment.

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
When you take a beer out of the fridge, and 5 minutes later it is covered in condensation...is this from the humidity in your house, or from the temperature difference?

Or how about your house windows in the winter.....the insides of the windows form condensation, because of the temperature difference, not humidity.



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Offlinevanislandshroomer
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Re: WTF? Inoculated/mashed in June, but NO PINS!!! HELP! [Re: PussyFart]
    #18649021 - 08/02/13 12:04 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

yes but in a monotub, you're building a small self sustaining micro climate for mushrooms to grow am I correct? Evaporation of water has to dissipate somewhere, and it has nowhere to do so in an enclosed box, thus the water, or the majority of it would need to find a place to accumulate since it can't be dispersed into the air outside the tub. If evaporation has noting to do with condensation forming on the walls and lid, then how does a dialed in monotub maintain a proper RH level if that condensation isn't also circulating in the air inside it?


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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: WTF? Inoculated/mashed in June, but NO PINS!!! HELP! [Re: PussyFart]
    #18649027 - 08/02/13 12:05 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
When you take a beer out of the fridge, and 5 minutes later it is covered in condensation...is this from the humidity in your house, or from the temperature difference?




Out in here in Alberta, it doesn't happen very often, and that's because of the lower RH of our air.  If you have air with a 10% RH, you need to have a REALLY cold surface to lower the partial pressure of water enough to cause condensation.  With 99% a differential of just a few degrees will do.

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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: WTF? Inoculated/mashed in June, but NO PINS!!! HELP! [Re: vanislandshroomer]
    #18649033 - 08/02/13 12:08 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Listen bro....you can google this...

Without a temperature differential of some kind, there would be no condensation.... period.

A perfect example of this would be a SGFC.

It always has 95-100% humidity, and yet there is never any condensation.

This is because the inside air is the same temp as the outside air, because of all the passive FAE.

The only water on the walls of a properly built SGFC is water you put there.

Give me one example of water condensing without a temperature difference.

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Offlinevanislandshroomer
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Re: WTF? Inoculated/mashed in June, but NO PINS!!! HELP! [Re: PussyFart]
    #18649259 - 08/02/13 01:08 PM (10 years, 7 months ago)

Sorry Hacks, not trying to argue with you, I'm agreeing with you about temperature effecting condensation, but considering that heat causes evaporation of moisture, In an outdoor environment, that moisture dissipates into the air. But in a confined space such as a mono, the heat produced by the substrate should cause any moisture to evaporate as well, but instead of dissipating into the air, it's get trapped inside it's enclosed environment, therefore creating condensation, on the walls, lid, even in the air.

Now if I yanked all the polyfil out of my tub and removed the lid, all the condensation caused by the heat from my substrate would be non existent (it would dissipate into the open air). But a monotub doesn't do this, not mine anyways. My tubs always have lots of condensation while colonizing & fruiting. It leads me to believe that there has to be an adequate RH level inside the tub to support the climate that I've built it for. My speculation originally was that a monotub shouldn't need any outside interference such as misting/fanning if dialed in properly due to the heat/evaporation/trapped condensation/and passive airflow to maintain an ideal growing environment.

:peace:


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