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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
Re: Tribute to John Ashcroft [Re: shakta]
    #1863934 - 08/29/03 08:58 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

shakta said:
You saying that Bush is trying the same thing is completely ludicrous. I am assuming you are joking. 


I guess you don't bother reading any of the links people have posted about the many similarities between Bush and Hitler, huh?  By the way, Hitler was very well respected at the time by the German people.  He may be one of the world's most charismatic leaders.  When I watch reruns of him speaking on the History Channel, I almost feel like saying "Heil Hitler" and giving the German salute.  That guy could TALK!  When I watch Bush, I just think "what a fucking moron"  :frown: 


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Edited by Cornholio (08/29/03 08:59 PM)

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Tribute to John Ashcroft [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1864061 - 08/29/03 09:44 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Even if it weren't for russia, we still would have gotten him with nukes, if he had gotten nukes before us, we would all be fucked.


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"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,287
Re: Tribute to John Ashcroft [Re: shakta]
    #1864247 - 08/29/03 10:43 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

'nazi' is short for National Socialist.

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
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Re: Tribute to John Ashcroft [Re: wingnutx]
    #1864269 - 08/29/03 10:47 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

The main "socialist" element to the Nazi party was the fact that it arose as a primarily working class movement.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Tribute to John Ashcroft [Re: shakta]
    #1865108 - 08/30/03 05:38 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

shakta said:
I never said he was stupid. Genious may be a bit of an overestimation, but he definately was smart. That doesn't preclude him from being one sick fuck though. Had he left Russia alone he may have one. His flaw was thinking he could take over the entire world. I am sure the Japanese would have been next on his list, had he succeeded with the rest. I think it is safe to say he managed to carry out the most evil shit of anyone in recent history.

You saying that Bush is trying the same thing is completely ludicrous. I am assuming you are joking.




I didn't say that you said that he was stupid. An calling him a genius not an overestimation one bit.

The problem wasn't with him fucking with Russia. The problem was the Russian winter. The Nazi soldiers were in no way equipped to do battle with Russia, some of them were wearing shorts. If the troops were accurately equipped for the Russian winter, there is no doubt that Russia would have stood a chance. They just kept going, further and further in, and the only thing that stopped them was a force of nature (which wouldn't have stopped them if he had prepared the troops properly).

The problems in Russia slowed the Nazis just enough to allow the Allies to make their quick attack..
The Japanese were allies with Hitler. After a breakthrough of Russia, He could definitely have been ready for an assault on America from both sides of the coast...

Hitler was nothing short of a genius. He sensed the wounds in the German people's pride, their economic ruin, and came up with a plan to get everything working again, giving them something to fight for, and even came up with a scapegoat to blame all of their problems on..

Check out this link...
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
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Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Anonymous

Re: Tribute to John Ashcroft [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1865337 - 08/30/03 09:57 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Even if it weren't for russia, we still would have gotten him with nukes, if he had gotten nukes before us, we would all be fucked.




he mightve, too. had he not started persecuting the jews.. many of his top scientists were jewish. they all left and came over to america, haha.

he was a genius, but made many fatal mistakes. persecuting the jews, attacking russia.. few others i cant remember.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Tribute to John Ashcroft [Re: ]
    #1865341 - 08/30/03 10:00 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Persecuting the Jews was one of the most vital parts of his plans.. I think the loss of the scientists for having unwavered support from the German people didn't bother him..

And, I might add again, that attacking Russia doesn't seem to be one of his mistakes. The mistake there was not having his troops prepared for the Russian Winter. Before the snow and cold settled in, the Russians were continously being pushed back..
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 19 years, 10 months
Re: Tribute to John Ashcroft [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1865351 - 08/30/03 10:04 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

The Russians ultimately kicked his ass though. He could not fight on both fronts successfully. The winter did have a lot to do with it. Had he not screwed Stalin over, his chances would have been better, don't you think?

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Tribute to John Ashcroft [Re: shakta]
    #1865369 - 08/30/03 10:13 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Well, they would have eventually met anyways.. Hitler had built the autobaun as an effective way of transporting soldiers and military weapons... fighting on both fronts had nothing to do with it. The forces on the west side were continously advancing. I mean, London was being bombed. And the Russians weren't exactly holding ground in Russia, either.

The German army were wearing SHORTS when the Russian winter hit. Of course, the Russians were used to their winter and were well equipped. Of course, once the Russians started holding their own because the Germans weren't fighting effectively anymore, the Germans started running out of supplies, too, since they were stuck there longer than expected...
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleStarter
Stranger
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Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 1,148
Loc: Australia
Re: Tribute to John Ashcroft [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1865526 - 08/30/03 11:14 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

National Socialism wasn't called that for lip service. It was a form of socialism. Modelled on the Duce's "corporatism", it was a system where private enterprise and property remained in the hands of the owners, but was directed by national policy and where your property and even the right to direct it could be taken away for *state-interest* reason (commonly called "in the national interest").

In other words, although you owned your property, it was under total control by the state. That's how fascism differs to communism. Under fascism, you have a "lip-service" private property, by virtue of the fact that the state tells you how to run it. Under communism, there is no private property as the state liquidates all ownership. Both are social collectives and both are cousins of one another. Both are socialist.

After all, fascism was a reaction to communism. It appealed to a worried middle class & industrial elite from potential communist control, a control that would see a complete stripping of their wealth/equity. Fascism offered a hope to these worried classes, given the 1920's to 1930's was a time of potential communist take over and the conservative powers weak in Germany. National Socialism was a revolutionary ideal. Even Stalin accepted that and later on in the Patriotic War, his propaganda dropped the "socialist" name from his Nazi enemy to make it appear they were "reactionaries".

Yet fascism equally despised conservatism, as fascism sought a collectivist (therefore socialist) state to effect their corporatism. The Nazis even called their conservative foes conservative reactionaries.

You can't really call fascism "right wing", in the "capitalist/conservative" sense. I suggest you read Noal O'Sullivan's political study "Fascism".

The US however, is yet another version of corporatism. The corporations fund the presidential campaign and the successful presidential administration rewards the corporations, provided they do what the state wants.

Hitler, like the Duce, used that as well, but Hitler had to pay the borrowed money from his industrial financiers, hence the militarist expansion with contracts plenty to IG Faden, Krupps ect. We see that repeat pattern now with the PNAC and US big oil. The US agenda of course is about global energy control through military expansion.


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Convert Metric and Imperial.

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Anonymous

Re: Tribute to John Ashcroft [Re: ]
    #1865538 - 08/30/03 11:18 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

to persecute jews or not to persecute jews wasn't really an issue for adolf hitler. it's not as though he was just doing it for some political end. he and his cronies really, really hated jews. they had some strange occult stuff going on with all their master aryan race stuff. killin' the jews was one of their biggest goals.

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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
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Re: Tribute to John Ashcroft [Re: Starter]
    #1865543 - 08/30/03 11:21 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Great post, but can we get back on-topic? I realize they're practically the same person, but can we talk less about Hitler and more about John Ashcroft?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,287
Re: Tribute to John Ashcroft [Re: shakta]
    #1865644 - 08/30/03 12:02 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

The nazis would have fared a lot better against Russia if they hadn't treated various slavic groups like complete shit as they passed through their territory.

Many of these would have gladly joined the germans against the russians, who had opressed the hell out of them, but then the germans turned out to be as bad or worse.

Their racist ideology undermined their ability to hold the land successfully.


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InvisibleStarter
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Registered: 05/16/03
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Re: Tribute to John Ashcroft [Re: wingnutx]
    #1865682 - 08/30/03 12:11 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

silversoul7, on track to the thread, Ashcroft comes across to me an architect of American theocracy, well pimped (bankrolled) on US corporatism. His agenda, along with his adjuncts, is to see the US constitution buried and the earth salted.

Ultimately that means greater profits to those that back the Bush administration and obviously more power to the said administration. It's a symbiotic relationship.

However, when they not only monopolise wealth and power on a global scale, they also guarantee total moral control when it's the alledged "God's will". Ashcroft is therefore the minister of the church of corporatism.


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Convert Metric and Imperial.

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OfflineDoctorJ
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Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: Tribute to John Ashcroft [Re: wingnutx]
    #1865700 - 08/30/03 12:17 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

"I could have sworn the Nazi party was socialist. Guess I am wrong. "

just because somebody (especially a political figure) calls themself a socialist doesnt mean they are one. Promising socialist reforms is a classic way for demagogues to gain power, even if they have no intention of enacting those reforms.

Same thing goes for conservatism, BTW. It apalls me to see how many loyal republicans vote for the GOP candidate even if his policies flatly contradict classic republican values. People put too much faith in monikers and affiliations.

Oh yeah, and Ashcroft is a fucking fascist.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Tribute to John Ashcroft [Re: ]
    #1866031 - 08/30/03 02:45 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:
to persecute jews or not to persecute jews wasn't really an issue for adolf hitler. it's not as though he was just doing it for some political end. he and his cronies really, really hated jews. they had some strange occult stuff going on with all their master aryan race stuff. killin' the jews was one of their biggest goals.




Hitler didn't use the Jewish race and others as a scapegoat on which to pin all of the problems in Germany on, so that he could unify his people agansit some outside force so that they would put him in power?

All these terrorists! They are out there, they are everywhere! They threaten our freedom! Now let me put in these laws so that I can invade into the personal lives of all of you, to whatever end I want and without getting in trouble for doing it... in the name of freedom.

And, let's bring this back to Ashcroft, shall we? The fucker is STILL in Norway. And, guess what? The fucker was on this very, small island today! I thought I felt a cold presence when I woke up this morning... I also strangely noticed that there were all these cameras in my room, hidden behind the light fixtures... hehe

Seriously, though, when my grandma and grandpa were here, they went and visited this church on the island. My grandma noticed John Ashcroft's name listed in the church's registry, and she said it would be nice to email him about it and tell him that she was there and saw his name.... Well, that's the Chruch he went to. hehe

It's a small, small world, and there was a person on this very island working for a man who threatens the well being of everyone on this small, small world...
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Anonymous

Re: Tribute to John Ashcroft [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1866064 - 08/30/03 02:56 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

it wasn't that simple... those guys really believed that shit. all that aryan race\cleansing of the jews stuff... there's a whole mythology behind it. nazism was like a religion... hitler had guys in the himalayas looking for the decendants of the original 'aryan' peoples... they had blonde haired blue eyed women to use as 'breeders' in creating the master race. they also had this idea that master-race-babies should be concieved in ancient norse cemetaries to increase their aryan-ness. they had shrines... shrines that were to be used for religious ceremonies worshipping the ashes of fallen SS leaders... killing the jews was all a part of this crazy fanatical quest. it was some craaaazy shiyat. i'll try to find a good article...

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Tribute to John Ashcroft [Re: ]
    #1866090 - 08/30/03 03:02 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

I know it wasn't that simple. There were a lot of sadistic Nazi officials who truly went off on this shit. And, hell, Hitler played them, too. He gave them a cause that there egominds couldn't resist...

Hitler planned all of this to happen, basically. He was capable of so much, and he had observed and planned, observed and planned. All of what happened in Germany basically was predicted beforehand by him in his book.. I really need to get my hands on a copy.

And, to point out an obvious statement that just is dying to be included, what colour was Hitler's hair and eyes? :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,185
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 4 years, 15 days
Re: Tribute to John Ashcroft [Re: ]
    #1866509 - 08/30/03 05:12 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, and Ashcroft truly believes that drug users are terrorists and must be locked up. I remember in school, being shown a Nazi propaganda film showing that Jews were the equivalent of rats and must be cleansed from society. What's the difference between demonizing drug users in America, and demonizing Jews in pre-holocaust Germany? Not alot if you ask me... but Americans just seem to shrug it off apathetically as an acceptable price to pay for having their huge government.

Bush isn't Hitler, although he acts alot like a "prewar Hitler". Ashcroft, on the other hand, is pretty close to a modern day Goebbels.


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man = monkey + mushroom

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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
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Registered: 12/15/02
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Re: Tribute to John Ashcroft [Re: pattern]
    #1866514 - 08/30/03 05:14 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:


Yeah, and Ashcroft truly believes that drug users are terrorists and must be locked up. I remember in school, being shown a Nazi propaganda film showing that Jews were the equivalent of rats and must be cleansed from society. What's the difference between demonizing drug users in America, and demonizing Jews in pre-holocaust Germany? Not alot if you ask me... but Americans just seem to shrug it off apathetically as an acceptable price to pay for having their huge government.

Bush isn't Hitler, although he acts alot like a "prewar Hitler". Ashcroft, on the other hand, is pretty close to a modern day Goebbels.







I couldnt have said it better


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