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OfflineIamHungry
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Registered: 01/12/03
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The Universe
    #1863548 - 08/29/03 07:55 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

In contradiction to many posts on this website, I can't help but think that maybe there isn't anything to the universe that we can't see. Like when people have a "profound understanding" on mushrooms, how do we know that it's not JUST the effects of the shrooms? Everyone seems so convinced that there is something to the universe, something that can't be proven, but there is always a possibility that what we see is what we get. I have yet to actually do shrooms (I would have a few times, but my supplier told me of bad trips from those batches), so I wouldn't know the feeling and "understanding," but I really think it's our imaginations running away with us due to the psychadelic effects. There is no way to prove that there is anything more to our world than what we can sense. Any thoughts?


--------------------
Here comes the sun, do n do do,
Here comes the sun, and I say,
It's alright...


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InvisibleHelp on the Way
Slipknot420

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Posts: 2,893
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Re: The Universe [Re: IamHungry]
    #1863557 - 08/29/03 08:05 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

i have wondered the same thing many times

to me...just the fact that a drug CAN change the way you think like that must mean that there is more to the mind than you previously realized
even if the effects are just from drugs, if they are showing you something new in your mind (or something that was always there but you never noticed before) it must mean there is more to the mind than you've realized

i am in no way discarding the idea that all there is is what we see because there is no way i can know for sure either way

i think you should try shrooms before making up your mind...you will be amazed


--------------------
:shocked: *Divine Moments of Truth* :shocked:


"Limitless undying love which shines around me like a million suns - it calls me on and on across the universe" ~ John Lennon

"Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right" ~The Grateful Dead

"Religionists, with their guaranteed eventual paradise, of which they know nothing, taking it all on 'faith,' can't be expected to understand or sympathize with those with a yen to storm the Gate of Heaven and see for themselves what all the praying's about!" ~Robert Hunter


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: The Universe [Re: IamHungry]
    #1863560 - 08/29/03 08:20 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

"Fifteen hundred years ago everyone knew the world was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everyone knew the earth was flat, and fifteen mintues ago you KNEW we were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow."--Agent K, from Men In Black

This quote should be enough to show you that there's more to reality than what we percieve. BTW, I suggest trying 5 grams of mushrooms, and then thinking about what you're saying here.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: The Universe [Re: IamHungry]
    #1863567 - 08/29/03 08:25 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

anything is possible.

could be there is nothing but what we see. we havent seen much of the universe, after all. anything that exists is likely 'viewable' or 'knowable' in some manner. its all perception and point of view and all that.

some 'realizations' we have on mushrooms (or any drug for that matter) are very real. some are not.

it doesnt matter the avenue which you learn something, but whether its logical and sensible. mushrooms can be a shortcut to some 'realizations'. they force you to see parts of your psyche you would otherwise ignore.

also, your dealer sounds like an idiot. mushrooms are mushrooms. a particular batch isnt going to produce more 'bad' trips over another. infact the mushrooms have nothing to do with a 'bad' trip. this could be argued, but i think everyone will agree set and setting is 95% of the determining factors for how the trip goes.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Universe [Re: IamHungry]
    #1863585 - 08/29/03 08:32 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

IamHungry said:
In contradiction to many posts on this website, I can't help but think that maybe there isn't anything to the universe that we can't see. Like when people have a "profound understanding" on mushrooms, how do we know that it's not JUST the effects of the shrooms? Everyone seems so convinced that there is something to the universe, something that can't be proven, but there is always a possibility that what we see is what we get. I have yet to actually do shrooms (I would have a few times, but my supplier told me of bad trips from those batches), so I wouldn't know the feeling and "understanding," but I really think it's our imaginations running away with us due to the psychadelic effects. There is no way to prove that there is anything more to our world than what we can sense. Any thoughts?




To think that what we have now is the only true view of this vastly infinite Universe just seems a little to unrealistic to me.

Any "profound experiences" on mushrooms is just as valid as any "profound experience" from religion, relationships, or any other sort of experience that we learn something new from. And considering the nature of a lot of the experiences perceived by myself and others on mushrooms, it seems to be quite more important to me than a lot of other types of experiences (although definitely not the only one that should be treasured, as there are an infinite of experiences just waiting to be seized).

There is always the possibility that "what we see is what we get", but it only remains a possibillity because we ourselves make it one.. our mind is pretty powerful, you know. The capabilites and the programs that can be run... most thrilling.

Just keep a mind that is open to new feelings and isn't tied entirely to the ground by your individual perspective or negative addictions to security, sensation, and power..
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineSpokesman
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Registered: 08/05/03
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Re: The Universe [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1863688 - 08/29/03 09:15 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

well, its not quite like that see, what most people experience during shrooms is a profound feeling of already proven facts, sure there are the ones who think we are actualy in a computer matrix and ones that think invisible aliens are amongs us but thats besides the fact of what you realy come to realize while on shrooms, and that is that everything we percieve is in our minds, its like it hits you all of a sudden "wait a minute, light is only "my Minds" translation of a bunch of waves," or "touch is "my minds" translation of atoms colliding with eachother" You get where im going here? when people say that they realize that everything is energy, its not so far fetch since every atom is compused of electrons. So alot of the philosophies that people ponder on during a trip arent made up they've actually been proven.


--------------------


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OfflineIamHungry
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Re: The Universe [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1863690 - 08/29/03 09:16 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I understand, but how do you know the mushrooms are actually working a part of the brain previously unused? How do you know it's not the psilocybin (sp?) working on your brain, so you THINK you're feeling all this?


--------------------
Here comes the sun, do n do do,
Here comes the sun, and I say,
It's alright...


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: The Universe [Re: IamHungry]
    #1863802 - 08/29/03 10:05 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Although I prefer to believe there is more than meets the eye, I believe that either possibilty is as likely as the other.

My ego-loss trip felt like it showed me a glimspe of what exists outside the normal parameters of our daily life.  You can call it god, the oversoul, or whatever you want.  It seems very real, and very right, but I don't take myself too seriously.

It is equally possible that this is  only an effect of the mushrooms and nothing else.  That somehow the psilocybin causes the brain to behave in a pattern that we translate as this.  The fact that so many of the same phenomena occur to nearly all who experience ego-loss, could support either theory.

In the end, I think it us up to every person to find their own meaning.  Your perception is  your reality, believe whatever makes you comfortable.  :laugh: 


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


Edited by HagbardCeline (08/29/03 10:07 PM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Universe [Re: IamHungry]
    #1863816 - 08/29/03 10:09 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Every sort of feeling we have is just some chemical acting on our brain, making us THINK that we are feeling and experiencing all of this.

I have experienced a lot of things on shrooms that I would have had no way of knowing before... Especially what happens on some of the higher dosage trips.. Like not being able to distinguish yourself from the rest of the Universe.

When people say that they realize everything is energy, is isn't as simple as that. The thoughts and feelings that come with this realization are really hard to get across in words, in communication, if one hasn't had the same realizations. Realizing that everything is composed of electrons is a little different than this realization that I am referring to.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Universe [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #1863847 - 08/29/03 10:24 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

HagbardCeline said:
It is equally possible that this is only an effect of the mushrooms and nothing else. That somehow the psilocybin causes the brain to behave in a pattern that we translate as this. The fact that so many of the same phenomena occur to nearly all who experience ego-loss, could support either theory.





And why would there be such a species on our planet that seems to produce these effects? Chance?

Perhaps the issue isn't that the chemicals have an effect on our brain, but why they have the effect on our brain. What you must realize is that every thought we have has some sort of effect on our brain, every chemical put into our bodies and every input has some sort of effect on our brain.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflinePedM
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Re: The Universe [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1864135 - 08/30/03 12:09 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Go to the forest. Sit still. Be quiet. Listen. What is that feeling? What is THAT? What does THAT feel like? That.. suchness?

That is the part of the universe science has left for us unarticulated. Unfortunately, it's that suchness that fills all the emptiness of the universe, which happens to be upwards of 99% of it.

Emptiness is Form. Form is emptiness.


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace


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OfflineDasKomet
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Re: The Universe [Re: Ped]
    #1864460 - 08/30/03 02:04 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Any here had a profound experience before any drug use?


--------------------
The Woven World is all I see.
Put cloves in your weed and tell them its for the LSD.
.oO0 Listen to White Zombie 0Oo.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: The Universe [Re: DasKomet]
    #1864646 - 08/30/03 03:01 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

"I can't help but think that maybe there isn't anything to the universe that we can't see."

*Ahem*

RED
INFARED
VIOLET
ULTRAVIOLET
GAMMA

These are a few of the spectrums we know exist but cant see into. We also cant see black holes, dark matter, or anything past a certain distance in space/time.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineIamHungry
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Re: The Universe [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1865105 - 08/30/03 07:34 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

right, but we can prove those exist. as of today there is still no proof G-d or aliens exist, but people seem to be able to die for their beliefs that they are real. what if the universe is solely scientific? what if it was a lucky strike that life evolved on this planet because of the weather and conditions, not some G-d put us here?


--------------------
Here comes the sun, do n do do,
Here comes the sun, and I say,
It's alright...


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OfflineLOBO
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Re: The Universe [Re: DasKomet]
    #1865133 - 08/30/03 08:10 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Any here had a profound experience before any drug use?






I Did.
I had several OObe's, my hole search in life (including shrooms) are because of those experiences they made such a big impression on me that since then I always new that there is something more than what our 5 senses can perceive, thou I cant say fore sure what exactly only that we are multidimensional in nature.


--------------------


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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: The Universe [Re: IamHungry]
    #1865249 - 08/30/03 10:23 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Not everyone who has a profound realization on shrooms belives in god(s), ALot of these realizations have to do with seeing ones place in this universe, sometimes you realize u are nothing but a micriscopic organism who sprouted on a rock and nothing more, and sometimes you realize you ARE the universe, because you are made of living organisms. You know its all stuff that you realize, not everyone takes shrooms and starts making shit up.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: The Universe [Re: Spokesman]
    #1865616 - 08/30/03 01:50 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

"right, but we can prove those exist. as of today there is still no proof G-d or aliens exist, but people seem to be able to die for their beliefs that they are real."

My point is that there is more to life than we can see with our own two eyes. Who knows what other spectra exist which are totally beyond our understanding, completely beyond our natural senses, our most sensitive electronic eyes, even beyond our logical inference. We can only see 10% of the universe, and by that I mean we can only see 10% of what is happening around us right now. Dark matter and energy could be anything- we have very little clues as to their nature.

"what if the universe is solely scientific? what if it was a lucky strike that life evolved on this planet because of the weather and conditions, not some G-d put us here? "

Why does science have to conflict with faith? I believe in the big bang. I believe in evolution. I also believe that these things are tools of God, or at least some kind of supremely intelligent force. Just because some ripoff shaman said that God made us out of clay 12,000 years ago doesnt mean that some superior force didnt create the universe and sentient lifeforms to inhabit it in some more intelligent way.

Of course, this is just speculation, but so is the assertion that it could have all just been random chance. I think we're way too early in the game to be making absolute statements either way, but I do place an addmitedly illogical faith in some supreme power/creator.

When science can tell me how and why the big bang happened without the catalyst of some kind of creator or supreme conscious will then I will be forced to abandone this notion of God. But I dont think it will happen, because the very subject matter is extremly confusing and illogical. Why did the universe happen? There was nothing, and then, all the sudden, heres a little baby universe- expanding at great speed, condensing hydrogen and helium into stars which explode and create heavy elements. If time is an intrinsic property of the universe, hat happened before there was a universe, and hence, no time? How did a great deal of matter and energy, along with a complex set of rules for them to follow, just come out of nothing? Why and how did those inert molecules begin to arrange themselves into things like amino acids and single celled organisms? Proper conditions? Where did they come from?

as long as there are unanswerable questions, there will always be faith.




--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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Offlineentiformatie
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Re: The Universe [Re: IamHungry]
    #1866062 - 08/30/03 04:54 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I totally agree with this possibility. Not that its true, but that its possible. because there is nothing proving it, or disproving it. Just as we don't know we are truly awake or dreaming, we don't know everything about what we experience. The mushrooms experience seems spiritual to me, but I accept the possibility that it could be nothing more than drug and chemical interactions in my brain to make me feel certain ways, and see certain things, and "understand" things. In short, it could just be delerium, but a little more subtle and benign.


--------------------
/opinion
.sean


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OfflineIamHungry
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Re: The Universe [Re: entiformatie]
    #1866396 - 08/30/03 06:26 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I had another thinking session, and a thought came over me...there has to be a supreme force ruling over the world. how else can you explain the way a cell can be alive one second, and then dead the next. where does all the extra energy from the dying body go? and what gives a gestating cell energy to all of a sudden spring to life? i just dont understand the mechanics of the universe, but obviously there is someone or something out there that does.


--------------------
Here comes the sun, do n do do,
Here comes the sun, and I say,
It's alright...


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OfflineSpokesman
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Registered: 08/05/03
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Loc: New Jersey U.S.
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: The Universe [Re: IamHungry]
    #1866472 - 08/30/03 06:58 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

umm,... who said life needs to be controled?????


--------------------


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