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Offlinewingnutx
Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,268
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
French Propose Their World Order
    #1863153 - 08/29/03 05:17 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

French Propose Their World Order


By Kenneth R. Timmerman


In an Aug. 25 speech that was almost surreal for its flighty idealism, French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin called for a "new world organization" to replace the United Nations as it is currently structured.

At an annual conference in Paris bringing together 200 top French diplomats and Foreign Ministry officials, de Villepin reiterated his view that the United States must cede power to a new "collective-security" organization. "[B]uilding a new world, founding a new order" was "urgent," he insisted, "an immense task that is incumbent upon us." It was France's role to lead Europe to become "one of the founding pillars" of the new system, he said.

The new collective-security system should be "founded on collective responsibility and world democracy," de Villepin said. In particular, he said that France was now looking favorably to the idea of enlarging membership of the U.N. Security Council and vesting it with expanded powers. While he provided no specifics in his speech, aides later said that he believed Germany, Japan, India, Brazil and a major African power such as Nigeria all should be given permanent seats on the council, along with veto power over all Security Council resolutions, including those authorizing the use of force.

In a direct dig at the Bush administration, de Villepin insisted that no nation should be allowed to use force, even in the defense of its own interests, without specific approval from the Security Council. "Using force is often tempting," he said, but "can only be justified if collective security or urgent humanitarian needs require it." Force must be "a last resort," and "only when the international community, through the Security Council, decides."

France rarely has asked for Security Council approval when it has intervened militarily in Africa, and in 1999 had no problem in joining a NATO coalition that bypassed the United Nations, rather than face the threat of a Russian veto, to wage war against Serbian strongman Slobodon Milosevic in Albania. But when the United States assembled a "coalition of the willing" to oust Saddam Hussein, after France blocked U.S. efforts to win U.N. support, that was "unacceptable."

A senior adviser to de Villepin tells Insight that France is hoping to patch up relations with the United States, but it is not quite sure how to proceed. For one thing, the adviser said, the French had failed to understand the depth of anger among ordinary Americans over French behavior at the United Nations during the Iraq crisis, and they don't appear to have learned from that failure. "The anti-French campaign in the United States was all led by right-wing pressure groups, and it was regrettable," the adviser said.

In what was intended as a sop to the United States, de Villepin said that no country should take umbrage at the French insistence on a new "multipolar" world order. Sweeping aside the record of his own diplomacy, de Villepin said, "[T]he French vision of multipolarity does not aim at organizing rivalry or competition, but responsibility, stability and initiative."

Therese Delpech, a strategic-affairs adviser to the French Atomic Energy Commission, which designs and builds French nuclear weapons, is one of the rare officials who has publicly criticized de Villepin for his multipolar vision. "Those in Europe who are promoting this notion of a multipolar world are not always aware that the term itself tends to further split the Western camp at a moment when we should be closing our ranks," she wrote in a recent article in Politique Internationale, the premier French policy review. "Besides, what new 'poles' are we talking about? Russia? Japan? A stronger China?"

De Villepin hinted that France was preparing a new showdown with the United States and Britain over Iraq, this time disguised as an effort to transfer authority for the post-war military occupation from the United States to the United Nations. "The new structures that eventually will be put in place cannot be simply an enlargement or adjustment of the current occupation forces. Instead, we must put in place a veritable international force under a U.N. Security Council mandate," he said.

According to the center-right daily Le Figaro, the French intend to demand, as a condition for sending their own troops or approving any expanded U.N. role in Iraq, that the new U.N. force "not be placed under American command." That condition will meet with strong resistance from the White House, since President George W. Bush promised voters during his election campaign that he would not allow U.S. soldiers to be placed under U.N. command.

De Villepin's vision of French grandeur and primacy on the world scene is widely shared by his subordinates, who unlike top officials at the U.S. State Department, are mostly foreign-service bureaucrats. "There were only five or six advisers who challenged his handling of the Iraq crisis," one official told Insight.

"What France is looking for is independence from the United States," says Delpech, while Germany wants to escape its world responsibilities. In both cases, "multi-lateralism is a rhetorical formula more than a guide to political action [and] is weakening European integration."

Kenneth R. Timmerman is a senior writer for Insight.

http://www.insightmag.com/news/455081.html


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: French Propose Their World Order [Re: wingnutx]
    #1863177 - 08/29/03 05:27 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Shd we bomb them today, or next week? I sure as hell am not going to be governed by some French-led new world order. Maybe the Christians are right, and the world is about to end. Since we have permanent veto power in the UN, I don't think this is much of a worry.

I guess the American commanded UN endorsed force ain't gonna happen. What a bunch of assholes. :wink:


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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 13 years, 24 days
Re: French Propose Their World Order [Re: shakta]
    #1863767 - 08/29/03 09:47 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

shakta said:
Shd we bomb them today, or next week? I sure as hell am not going to be governed by some French-led new world order.


Preach on brother shakta! You now seem to know exactly how the rest of the world feels about the [url=http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Bush+"new+world+order"]US dominated world order[/url] coming into existence. One where a country must be with the US or against it; neutrality is no longer an option. You're either our bitch, or our enemy. Some choice, huh? I think the rest of the world already shares your anger.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,849
Loc: Pandurn
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Re: French Propose Their World Order [Re: shakta]
    #1863797 - 08/29/03 10:04 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

shakta said:
Shd we bomb them today, or next week? I sure as hell am not going to be governed by some French-led new world order. Maybe the Christians are right, and the world is about to end. Since we have permanent veto power in the UN, I don't think this is much of a worry.

I guess the American commanded UN endorsed force ain't gonna happen. What a bunch of assholes. :wink: 




If the U.S. continues to not play ball with the UN and shows no regard for the UN, I believe it would be entirely possible for the UN to forego the United States..

There are a lot of valid points that are brought up there. Especially the part about using force.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: French Propose Their World Order [Re: Cornholio]
    #1863799 - 08/29/03 10:04 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Nice try. I was just kidding about bombing them of course. The Bush doctrine is aimed at states sponsoring terrorism, and that is it. You know this already, but you are being dramatic. You are with us or against us in the war on terror. So, if you let a bunch of terrorist organizations have safe harbor in your country and/or arm them, you are toast. I think the rest of the civilized world should support that. No one is saying the Swiss have to break out their little knives and come fight in Iraq. We are not going to attack the French for disagreeing with us.


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: French Propose Their World Order [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1863803 - 08/29/03 10:06 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

This one world order is not going to happen anytime soon. To many countries like their borders, and running themselves.


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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 13 years, 24 days
Re: French Propose Their World Order [Re: shakta]
    #1863890 - 08/29/03 10:36 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

shakta said:
you are being dramatic.


Perhaps for an American, yes. But I think this is how much of the rest of the world feels.


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: French Propose Their World Order [Re: Cornholio]
    #1863898 - 08/29/03 10:39 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Feeling that way, and being correct are two different things. Some people blame the Jews for 9/11 as well. We saw what a lot of Germans thought about it as well. Mass histeria doesn't mean something is true.


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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 13 years, 24 days
Re: French Propose Their World Order [Re: shakta]
    #1863913 - 08/29/03 10:46 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

shakta said:
Mass histeria doesn't mean something is true. 


Amen brother.  Tell that to the American people.  Some actually think Iraq was a threat to our very existance.  :lol: 


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OfflineClover
phenomenal woman
Registered: 08/01/03
Posts: 99
Loc: Beyond the Veil
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: French Propose Their World Order [Re: Cornholio]
    #1865269 - 08/30/03 10:53 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Indeed, there is no way (in this lifetime anyway) that we will see a "New World Order" such has been described above. To get this nation, much less the world, to agree on ONE commonality would be impossible within the confines of purely human thinking. We would actually have to step outisde our nice little comfortable boxes (both conceptually AND physically) in order to even comprehend what being united means.


--------------------
"Those sweet excesses I do adore."



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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: French Propose Their World Order [Re: Cornholio]
    #1865347 - 08/30/03 12:03 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Your a funny guy! :razz:


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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 13 years, 24 days
Re: French Propose Their World Order [Re: Clover]
    #1866099 - 08/30/03 05:05 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Clover said:
Indeed, there is no way (in this lifetime anyway) that we will see a "New World Order" such has been described above. To get this nation, much less the world, to agree on ONE commonality would be impossible within the confines of purely human thinking.


I totally agree we will never get there.  That's why Bush should stop trying, because he's only creating enemies in the process.  :tongue: 


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OfflineClover
phenomenal woman
Registered: 08/01/03
Posts: 99
Loc: Beyond the Veil
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: French Propose Their World Order [Re: Cornholio]
    #1867335 - 08/31/03 01:29 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I do not think we need to ignore the UN, either. There may be an infinite number of people who no longer trust the UN, nevertheless, it is a legitimate organization ultimately striving for world peace, and if not that, then at least rational thought in times of conflict. I will even venture to say we may need their assistance (like it or not) sometime in the future and we could certainly use their support, no question.
Unfortunately, world peace is an ideal concept only Utopia could maintain. It could actually throw an entire planet off-balance and cause complancency such as the world has never seen.
Food for thought.


--------------------
"Those sweet excesses I do adore."



Edited by Clover (09/01/03 09:51 AM)


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