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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,282
Terrorists Eating Farm Animals
    #1863133 - 08/29/03 05:11 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Minks Freed By Domestic Terrorists Eating Farm Animals FBI Investigates Freeing Of Minks
5 news ^ | 12:50 p.m. EDT August 29, 2003

SULTAN, Wash. -- Hundreds of minks set free in Washington state by animal rights activists are devouring farm animals and exotic birds in the area.

One farmer who breeds rare ducks and chickens says over half of them were eaten alive by the minks.

Animal activists say that while the farm animals' deaths are unfortunate, it proves minks raised in captivity can survive in the wild.

The American Liberation Front, considered a domestic terrorist group by the FBI, has claimed responsibility for releasing 10,000 minks from a farm a few days ago. About 80 percent have been recaptured.

A $100,000 reward is offered for information that leads to the conviction of the people who released the minks.

The reward is offered by the industry group, Fur Commission USA. A spokeswoman, Teresa Platt, said Monday's attack has alarmed other fur farmers who are now taking extra precautions to protect their property.

About 1,000 animals were lost from the Roesler Brothers Fur Farm.

The Animal Liberation Front had claimed responsibility. The FBI is helping police with the investigation.

The Sultan mink farm hit by animal liberation activists produces about 15 percent of the mink pelts that come from Washington. The state has 15 mink farms that produced 113,000 pelts in 2001.

At $40 a pelt, that's $4.5 million, making the state one of the top ten mink fur producers in the nation.


http://www.wral.com/news/2443390/detail.html


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
Re: Minks Freed By Domestic Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: wingnutx]
    #1863140 - 08/29/03 05:12 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Idiots.


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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,282
Re: Minks Freed By Domestic Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: shakta]
    #1863142 - 08/29/03 05:13 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Animal activists say that while the farm animals' deaths are unfortunate, it proves minks raised in captivity can survive in the wild.

That's my favorite line :smile:



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Offlineshakta
Infidel
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Re: Minks Freed By Domestic Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: wingnutx]
    #1863146 - 08/29/03 05:15 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I am sure farm raised tigers could live in the wild too, but I ain't gonna release a bunch of them. These guys and the ELF seem to do more harm for their cause than good with their actions.


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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,282
Re: Minks Freed By Domestic Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: shakta]
    #1863156 - 08/29/03 05:18 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I think the ducks would agree.


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Invisibleshroomophile
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: wingnutx]
    #1863809 - 08/29/03 10:07 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Lets release the goddamn grizzley bears.I love being 8 or 9 on the food chain.Adrenaline is a cheap drug.


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Once the mighty oak,was a nut who held his ground.


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: shroomophile]
    #1863822 - 08/29/03 10:12 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

The grizzlies are not being held anywhere as far as I know. :smile:

If you like being low on the food chain go swim in the water in Australia. Those damn white sharks scare the hell out of me. I watched all that shark week stuff, and noticed one interesting thing. Most sharks are all sleek and pretty looking. The White sharks are mean as hell looking, and all scarred to hell from fighting each other. All the ones I saw looked like Rocky after the fight with Apollo Creed. They eat seals the size of cows for a snack.


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Invisibleshroomophile
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: shakta]
    #1863848 - 08/29/03 10:25 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I think they call it a zoo.There was also Grizzley Adams and "Gentle"Ben.What about those Guys rassling Bears in upstate N.Y.Those guys know how to whoop a bears ass.But seriously,I have surfed alittle in san diego, and yea,i get a little adrenaline rush with the fishies too.


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Once the mighty oak,was a nut who held his ground.


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: shroomophile]
    #1863865 - 08/29/03 10:30 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

There are more bears in the wild than in zoos. I don't want to argue about bears though. As far as surfing there goes, just do it when they aren't there. The white sharks do come to California every year. Hell they pretty much go wherever they want. These things are definately amazing animals. They are scary as hell, but I respect them, and think they should definately be around.

Grizzly Adams was the shit. Putting quotes around "Gentle"Ben made me laugh my ass off. I ain't trusting no 9' tall bear. That is for damn sure. That would scare the piss out of me. I got my picture taken with one at the fair once, and swore I would never do it again. They do freak out every once in a while, and I don't want to be the one guy Happy the Bear decides to eat.


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OfflineClover
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Registered: 08/01/03
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: shakta]
    #1867298 - 08/31/03 01:11 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I particularly hate this type of group. Inevitably, they end up being linked by the media to legitimate ecological protection groups.
Because the ALF is so extreme, it makes for a nice story on the 10:00 news and can be easily lumped in through clever segue.


--------------------
"Those sweet excesses I do adore."



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Offlinemonoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 3,095
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Clover]
    #1867410 - 08/31/03 02:05 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, I really hope wingenutx wasn't blanketing this towards every ecologist or environmentalist.These extremist morons do not speak for the vast majority of environmentalists.

What's up with the right and their total lack of concern for the environment? Don't give me that environment over people shit. The environment effects us all. No group or any other entity should be above that,if it means losing a few jobs or whatnot in the process.


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,282
Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: monoamine]
    #1867478 - 08/31/03 02:37 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Blanketing what? I just posted an article.

I don't care if people protest anything, as long as they don't vandalize and light stuff on fire. PETA protests involve a lot of nekked chicks, which is a-ok in my book, though I think they are fairly silly people.



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OfflineClover
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: monoamine]
    #1870697 - 09/01/03 09:56 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I have no idea. I suppose they feel that the environment is not important enough an issue right now because people, in general, are still able to consume - and resources are still "plentiful" (and I use that word with caution). Until such time that we are so desperate and depleted that factions are fighting for the most basic of necessities (water, shelter, food), or petrol, it will be of no consequence to them to even *think* environmentally.

Their short-sightedness makes me ill.


--------------------
"Those sweet excesses I do adore."



Edited by Clover (09/01/03 09:57 AM)


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: wingnutx]
    #1870744 - 09/01/03 10:50 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Animal rights people mean well. That's why I love them.

They have good intentions.




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--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: The Tea Company - Make Love Not War



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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: monoamine]
    #1870773 - 09/01/03 11:19 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I don't see how these animal rights people have anything to do with environmentalism. It has everything to do with people deciding that "animals are people, too".

I just wish that everyone would realize that our world, the way we know it, exists because every living thing consumes some type of other living thing in order to potentiate its own life and reproduce.

Do these people think that the mink gave any consideration to the pain that was inflicted on the ducks and other animals as they were eating them? No. Neither should we.


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YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


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OfflineDava
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Ekstaza]
    #1871036 - 09/01/03 02:07 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

No, but the minks killed the ducks cause they were hungry, not because they had a need after luxury.




--------------------
"These psychedelic substances cause hysterical psychoses in people who have not taken them..."
- Timothy Leary


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Learyfan]
    #1871084 - 09/01/03 02:36 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I could care less about a person's intentions. I'm more concerned with what they actually do.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Dava]
    #1871741 - 09/01/03 06:04 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Dava said:
No, but the minks killed the ducks cause they were hungry, not because they had a need after luxury.







Do you really think that those people that let those mink out intend to stop at just the fur industry? Their goal is to not have any animal killed for any reason and that includes the cow that provides my T-bones and the chickens that you get your grilled chicken sandwich from. I don't mean to say that animals should be slaughtered indiscriminately but people have to come to terms with what they are. We are predators in the food chain. Our place in this world is set and if we don't fulfill our obligation to that role then we are screwing around with the natural order of things. I enjoy and embrace what I am, as did our ancestors. I am a being that sometimes has to prey on other living beings to attain sustenance.

As far as the whole fur coat luxury issue goes, I look at the fur as another resource that nature has set before us to chose from for our needs. I know that we now have more choices to chose from and that it is not necessary to use fur, but it is also not necessary to use real leather for shoes and other products made from leather. The point is that we like these things and have provided a means to utilize these resources without depleting nature. I'm sure same people aren't out there fighting for the rights of the silk worm to keep it silk. The poor things kept in captivity and then robbed of there sole possession after spending so much time to produce a place for their young to be raised.

Give me a break.

I think now I'm going to go outside on my deck and get the grill ready. I've got a few steaks in the freezer the would be real good right about now. And after supper I think I'll start getting ready for hunting season which is right around the corner. And when I kill a deer this year I'll be thinking of all of the mink that I saved by having the hide tanned and made into nice fur blanket to keep my feet warm while I'm sitting in the stand waiting for the next deer to come along.


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YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


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OfflineDava
journeyman
Registered: 03/03/03
Posts: 80
Loc: Belgium
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Ekstaza]
    #1871813 - 09/01/03 06:36 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)


Quote:


We are predators in the food chain. Our place in this world is set and if we don't fulfill our obligation to that role then we are screwing around with the natural order of things. I enjoy and embrace what I am, as did our ancestors.





How many ppl can hunt down an animal in the wild, can rip its skin off, can you cook its meat and eat it afterwards without being sick the day after or fucking it up?
We may be at the top of the food chain, we arent predators or we dont follow the natural order of things.
Keeping thousands of chickens on a couple of hundreds suare meters is not a natural thing.

Quote:


As far as the whole fur coat luxury issue goes, I look at the fur as another resource that nature has set before us to chose from for our needs. I know that we now have more choices to chose from and that it is not necessary to use fur, but it is also not necessary to use real leather for shoes and other products made from leather. The point is that we like these things and have provided a means to utilize these resources without depleting nature. I'm sure same people aren't out there fighting for the rights of the silk worm to keep it silk. The poor things kept in captivity and then robbed of there sole possession after spending so much time to produce a place for their young to be raised.




Sure, nature did it all of us.
Minks only purpose is to give us furs, cows only purpose is giving us t-bones, trees only purpose is giving us wood.
I guess you have never heard of ecolgy.
And the importance of it.
We are going nowhere, it might seem we are abundant in resources with all those improved farming techniques.
But the contrary is right, resources are diminishing each year.
Farms produce less, but it is compensated by many fertilizers, pesticides and genetic manipulation who boost the natural resources for just one extra year.. and another.. but time is running out..


--------------------
"These psychedelic substances cause hysterical psychoses in people who have not taken them..."
- Timothy Leary


Edited by Dava (09/01/03 06:37 PM)


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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Dava]
    #1871898 - 09/01/03 07:05 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Dava said:

How many ppl can hunt down an animal in the wild, can rip its skin off, can you cook its meat and eat it afterwards without being sick the day after or fucking it up?
We may be at the top of the food chain, we arent predators or we dont follow the natural order of things.
Keeping thousands of chickens on a couple of hundreds suare meters is not a natural thing.




I personally know lots of people who can do these things using their natural ability to think about the situation and improvise. Animals do the same thing within their limits to capture and subdue their prey.
I myself personally dress and prepare all of the meat that I get from hunting. Anyone who is taught how can do the same. Do you think that predatory animals are born with the knowledge of how to take down their prey? No, they learn from their parents how to do these things, just as I have.

Quote:

Sure, nature did it all of us.
Minks only purpose is to give us furs, cows only purpose is giving us t-bones, trees only purpose is giving us wood.
I guess you have never heard of ecolgy.
And the importance of it.
We are going nowhere, it might seem we are abundant in resources with all those improved farming techniques.
But the contrary is right, resources are diminishing each year.
Farms produce less, but it is compensated by many fertilizers, pesticides and genetic manipulation who boost the natural resources for just one extra year.. and another.. but time is running out..





As I have stated before, I don't think that what this thread is all about has anything to do with ecology at all. Except for the fact that the people who released all of those mink had no concern for the ecology of the area in which they released them into. Besided the farm animals that were lost to the mink, there were undoubtably wildlife losses as well.


--------------------
YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


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OfflineDava
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Registered: 03/03/03
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Ekstaza]
    #1871981 - 09/01/03 07:40 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


No, they learn from their parents how to do these things, just as I have.




No, they mimick.
Animals cant actively learn.
You can take a lil cat away from his mother and raise it on your own.
The cat will know how to capture birds or mice.
Quote:


Do you think that predatory animals are born with the knowledge of how to take down their prey?




So yes. They call that an instinct.

And if we would all learn how to shoot correctly with a gun towards a deer, rabit or duck. Their woulndt be a wildlife left in less than a year.
Quote:


I personally know lots of people who can do these things using their natural ability to think about the situation and improvise




Its not like you are hunting with a spear now huh?
Do you have to do anything more than to wait and point your gun towards it?
Its not like you are in life-danger. Or are you hunting bears with a bow?

I was besides also referring to the empathy-factor.
Most ppl will hesitate to kill a frog, let alone a deer.


Quote:


As I have stated before, I don't think that what this thread is all about has anything to do with ecology at all. Except for the fact that the people who released all of those mink had no concern for the ecology of the area in which they released them into. Besided the farm animals that were lost to the mink, there were undoubtably wildlife losses as well.




I agree, it wasnt a perfect move and i dont justify their action.
But thzey are bringing a small attention span to the fur factories.
And thats a good thing.
If they would stop blabbering about the terroristic act and start blabbering about the 'why'.



--------------------
"These psychedelic substances cause hysterical psychoses in people who have not taken them..."
- Timothy Leary


Edited by Dava (09/01/03 07:48 PM)


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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Dava]
    #1872062 - 09/01/03 08:22 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Dava said:
No, they mimick.
Animals cant actively learn.
You can take a lil cat away from his mother and raise it on your own.
The cat will know how to capture birds or mice.




Animals can be taught. Chipanzees have remarkable abilities to learn sign language and teach it to others. Dogs are taught to obey their owners and to do unlimited numbers of different tasks. And the list goes on and on and on.

Quote:

So yes. They call that an instinct.



Sure, I'll agree that some survival skills are instinct. Although, your everyday housecat will not be able to go out into the wilderness and imediately be able to hunt sufficiently until it has a few trial and error attempts. Learning by trial and error is not instinct.

Quote:

And if we would all learn how to shoot correctly with a gun towards a deer, rabit or duck. Their woulndt be a wildlife left in less than a year.




Just because people know how to take game with a weapon doesn't mean that they are just going to go out and indesciminately kill game species because they can. I usually go hunting with the intention of bringing home just enough meat for my family to have a store of it thoughout the year.

Quote:


Its not like you are hunting with a spear now huh?
Do you have to do anything more than to wait and point your gun towards it?
Its not like you are in life-danger. Or are you hunting bears with a bow?




No, I don't use a spear, although I do know people who hunt with an atillade (I'm not sure of the spelling). It is basically a spear which is thrust using the aid of a long stick in order to allow it to gain more momentum. And yes, they are very successful hunters using this primative weapon. I myself use a compound bow, or a crossbow, or a riffle. I also have a pistol that sometimes hunt with. The only weapon that uses vision enhancing optics is the riffle. Like I said, I'm hunting to help feed my family. I want tto make sure that I bring something home.

And from your statement about just waiting for the animal to walk by and them pointing a gun at it and shooting, I acn tell that you have no understanding of the things that must take place in order for a hunt to be successful.

Quote:

I was besides also referring to the empathy-factor.
Most ppl will hesitate to kill a frog, let alone a deer.





I enjoy eating frog legs just as much as I enjoy eating venison. As do a great many people.

Quote:


I agree, it wasnt a perfect move and i dont justify their action.
But thzey are bringing a small attention span to the fur factories.
And thats a good thing.
If they would stop blabbering about the terroristic act and start blabbering about the 'why'.




I'm afraid you have hit a wall as far that argument goes, because I don't see that there is an issue that needs any attention as far as the fur industry goes. They provide a product that people have determined they want to buy and the product is perfectly legal.


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YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


Edited by Ekstaza (09/01/03 08:39 PM)


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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: z@z.com]
    #1872244 - 09/01/03 09:40 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

z@z.com said:
I could care less about a person's intentions. I'm more concerned with what they actually do.




They're doing a lot. They're standing up for animals. I love animals, so I think they're heroes.




--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: The Tea Company - Make Love Not War



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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Learyfan]
    #1872276 - 09/01/03 09:48 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
Quote:

z@z.com said:
I could care less about a person's intentions. I'm more concerned with what they actually do.




They're doing a lot. They're standing up for animals. I love animals, so I think they're heroes.




Do you love the animals that were killed as a result of this release.
What they effectively did was cause the death of many animals.

It kills me how most people don't think about all of the angles an issue can be viewed from. They then say something that directly contradicts what they said.


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YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


Edited by Ekstaza (09/01/03 11:56 PM)


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Ekstaza]
    #1872419 - 09/01/03 10:34 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not talking about this situation. Obviously they fucked up this time, but give them a break. They're extremely passionate about animal rights. I think that's awesome.

I think they should go after Bush next. Look at how he dropped his dog the other day.




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--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: The Tea Company - Make Love Not War



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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Learyfan]
    #1872491 - 09/01/03 10:50 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

it's true that many people these days don't have the
passion or vigor to stand up for something that really
means something to them, but wanton destruction
of property will do nothing to turn the tide of public
opinion in favor of their causes.

if anything, they damage the credibility of the legitimate
organizations that seek similar ends.

another great pic, btw, leary.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Anonymous

Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: wingnutx]
    #1872623 - 09/01/03 11:25 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

What a bunch of mindless fucking retards. Anyone who aligns themselves with idiots like those should be shot with shit and hung for stinking.


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InvisibleAutonomous
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: ]
    #1872627 - 09/01/03 11:26 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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Anonymous

Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Autonomous]
    #1872649 - 09/01/03 11:32 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)



:wink: 


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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: ]
    #1872706 - 09/01/03 11:55 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mr_Mushrooms said:


:wink: 




Me too! 


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OfflineDava
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Ekstaza]
    #1873505 - 09/02/03 06:43 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


Animals can be taught. Chipanzees have remarkable abilities to learn sign language and teach it to others. Dogs are taught to obey their owners and to do unlimited numbers of different tasks. And the list goes on and on and on.




Thats not learning, thats rewarding a certain behaviour and hoping that the animal will do it again because of the reward given.
As for chimpansees teaching it to others > mimick.

Quote:


Just because people know how to take game with a weapon doesn't mean that they are just going to go out and indesciminately kill game species because they can. I usually go hunting with the intention of bringing home just enough meat for my family to have a store of it thoughout the year.





But as you said in some posts before, do you keep track of how many deer/whatever are in your hunting grounds? Cause you said you use nature's resources without depleting them. So you must have a record of population right and only shoot the old or weaker?
Or will you one day come to the constation you dont have any animals left to shoot at?


Quote:


Sure, I'll agree that some survival skills are instinct. Although, your everyday housecat will not be able to go out into the wilderness and imediately be able to hunt sufficiently until it has a few trial and error attempts. Learning by trial and error is not instinct.




A lil lion in the wilderness will also have to do some trial-and-error attempts, so that doesnt make any difference.
Animals have a hunting instinct.

Quote:


I'm afraid you have hit a wall as far that argument goes, because I don't see that there is an issue that needs any attention as far as the fur industry goes. They provide a product that people have determined they want to buy and the product is perfectly legal.




Talk about rockbottom.
So its ok because its legal and ppl want it?

Why not dump nuclear waste in your garden?
I surely know the current administration will find a way to make it legal and some ppl will gladly want to do it.
So its ok?


--------------------
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- Timothy Leary


Edited by Dava (09/02/03 06:44 AM)


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Offlinecdchriscd
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Dava]
    #1873526 - 09/02/03 07:14 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I never understood this animal rights nonsense. It's seems one side says "animals are like people, they're intelligent can learn, have feelings," blah blah blah , and the other side just says fuck it, or justifies killing animals somehow. So if the sole argument is animals have human like qualities (or we have animal like qualities, for all the morons who were going to try to derail my argument with that animals came before man nonsense), and there's some sense of equality; then I say what about the humans that are killed daily? Granted, most are killed by other humans, but so what, they're still intelligent life being killed. Unless every animal rights activist feels equally strong, and lobbies and equal amount of there time towards gun control, and other humane interests, they're being bias towards humans.


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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: cdchriscd]
    #1873566 - 09/02/03 08:56 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Now that is possibly one of most nonsensical posts ever. I dont even know where to start....


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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Dava]
    #1873702 - 09/02/03 10:57 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Dava said:
Thats not learning, thats rewarding a certain behaviour and hoping that the animal will do it again because of the reward given.
As for chimpansees teaching it to others > mimick.




I you were given no incentive to learn, you would not go to school. Learning is all about rewards; rewards of accomplishment, rewards on monetary gain, rewards of survival.

Quote:

But as you said in some posts before, do you keep track of how many deer/whatever are in your hunting grounds? Cause you said you use nature's resources without depleting them. So you must have a record of population right and only shoot the old or weaker?
Or will you one day come to the constation you dont have any animals left to shoot at?




Yes, I do keep track of deer populations in a general sense and the numbers are rising, not declining. In fact deer populations are growing to such an extent that in some places they are causing problems, i.e. they are eating up crops, they cause more and more car accidents, they are destroying landscapes, and they are depleting their natural foods. In some places they have effectively made extinct certain tree species in the area because they have preferances and eat them until they are all gone. With this population boom also comes starvation and disease for the deer.

Do your homework before coming at me with wildlife conservation "facts" (I thought about this word usage and have recognized that you never said anything you mentioned was fact. It stays because the tone of you posts imply that you have some sort of knowledge about the issue). I am a member of a wildlife conservation organization that understands that in order to preserve the outdoors hunting must be part of the equation.

Quote:

Talk about rockbottom.
So its ok because its legal and ppl want it?

Why not dump nuclear waste in your garden?
I surely know the current administration will find a way to make it legal and some ppl will gladly want to do it.
So its ok?




Like I said, we will just have to agree to disagree when it comes to the fur industry. I come from a different school of thought than you on this issue. I don't find anything wrong with it and you find it absolutely terrible. Although, it has no impact on you if I buy my girlfriend a fur coat other than making you feel disgust. I get disgusted by things people do everyday that are protected by civil rights, but it is not my place to tell anybody what to do as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.

As far as our current administration goes, I say we need to can them all and start over. Bush's war on terrorism is taking away more rights everyday and giving complete victory to those who wanted to change the American way of life.


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Edited by Ekstaza (09/02/03 05:47 PM)


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OfflineFunguy
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Ekstaza]
    #1874586 - 09/02/03 05:13 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Ekstaza, you have said everything that I believe exactly. My family would basically starve if myself and my father did not hunt. 90% of our meat is venison, the rest squirrel, rabbit, and fish. I try to use almost every bit of the animal I kill, from fur to bone. Hunting is especially important is some areas considering how our forefathers basically exterminated predators (bear, wolves, cougars) from certain parts of the US.
By the way, has anyone thought about how vegetables feel about being eaten?


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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Funguy]
    #1874600 - 09/02/03 05:17 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

are you really trying to discredit the anti-hunting
lobby by arguing that vegetables should be granted
the same rights as animals?



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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: afoaf]
    #1874609 - 09/02/03 05:21 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Why shouldn't they?


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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: afoaf]
    #1874622 - 09/02/03 05:23 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

the anti-hunting lobby doesn't really need to be discredited... it's already ridiculous all by itself.

the fact is that there is nothing wrong whatsoever with eating meat. humans are biologically designed to eat a mix of animal and plant foods. we've been eating meat (read: killing other animals and eating their flesh) for as long as we've been around. there's absolutely nothing wrong with this.

modern factory-style livestock 'production' might be a little unpalatable to some (i personally don't eat beef, pork, milk, or non-free range chicken or eggs), but to deny something so human as hunting wild animals for food is... well... assinine.

i'd prefer to eat the venison, duck, or quail we can hunt around here than factory-raised pork, beef, or chicken any day.


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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: ]
    #1874630 - 09/02/03 05:26 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Unless you are a vegan, saying that hunting is wrong is hypocritical.


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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Autonomous]
    #1874649 - 09/02/03 05:31 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

why should they?


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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: ]
    #1874651 - 09/02/03 05:31 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Just imagine that you are a carrot, happily growing, waiting for your chance to produce flowers and seed, when something rips you out of the ground by your head. They wisk you away, drowning you under frigid water to wash away the soil that nourished you. Then a metal device peels your skin away, several strips at a time. The pain is unbearable, you can't wait for it to stop. You are laid down on a large platform, and a huge blade comenses to chopping you, from your toes up. Several pieces of you lay there, when you are scooped up and dropped into a pool of scaldingly hot water.

"Mama, I don't liked cooked carrots!"
"Well, eat them anyway, I've gone to a lot of trouble to fix dinner."



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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Funguy]
    #1874811 - 09/02/03 06:15 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeach.


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OfflineClover
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Dava]
    #1875251 - 09/02/03 08:41 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Dava said:

Quote:


trees only purpose is giving us wood.





Um, sorry, but you are wrong about that. Trees release oxygen into the air after converting the carbon dioxide that they intake. Trees are also used for paper pulp, food and medicine. Among other uses...


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Edited by Clover (09/02/03 08:42 PM)


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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Clover]
    #1875332 - 09/02/03 09:13 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

That guy was making a generalization about me saying that cows and chickens provide us with food. His statement was sarcasm.


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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Clover]
    #1875369 - 09/02/03 09:25 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

It makes me very angry when I think about the fact that trees don't need to be cut down for wood products. We've got the wonderly renewable and reliable resource in hemp for Christ sakes.

The fact that people stand for that is a good sign that the government has us completely and utterly brainwashed.




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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Learyfan]
    #1875450 - 09/02/03 09:47 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
It makes me very angry when I think about the fact that trees don't need to be cut down for wood products. We've got the wonderly renewable and reliable resource in hemp for Christ sakes.




I with you there. Hemp can be used in so many different ways that it is tantamount to evolutionary suicide to ban it's use.


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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Learyfan]
    #1875493 - 09/02/03 10:00 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Other than clear cutting, I have no problem with using trees as they are also a renewable resource.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1875536 - 09/02/03 10:09 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

What is "clear cutting"?

Trees may be renewable, but it takes a tree 50 years to grow and 50 days for hemp to grow.





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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Learyfan]
    #1875560 - 09/02/03 10:17 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Clear cutting? While I feel you're pulling my leg... it's a complete removal of the trees. I prefer selective cutting.

Ever try to make a 2x4 out of hemp?


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1875597 - 09/02/03 10:27 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ever try to make a 2x4 out of hemp?




You don't think that can be done?? ANYTHING you can make with wood, you can make with hemp. And it'll be better to.This guy did it.




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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1875601 - 09/02/03 10:28 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Clear cutting? While I feel you're pulling my leg... it's a complete removal of the trees. I prefer selective cutting.

Ever try to make a 2x4 out of hemp?




Nevertheless a building material similar to plywood has been produced from hemp that out performs conventional plywood in strength and durability. It's been a long time since I read the article that discussed this but if I can find it I will link to it.


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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Ekstaza]
    #1875603 - 09/02/03 10:29 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

beat to the punch again.


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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1875975 - 09/03/03 12:14 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I'm pretty high on the environment but I see it as a resource. I don't worship it nor do I think it has any special value other than to serve mankind.

Preserve biodiversity for man.

He rules, period, end of story.


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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1876864 - 09/03/03 09:40 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I agree with you luvdem. Selective cutting and proper forestry techniques actually help the environment. Sadly, most enviro-Nazis ignore these facts, and would rather keep us out of nature altogether.


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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Learyfan]
    #1876991 - 09/03/03 11:15 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

While I admire his ingenuity, I'll stick with wood for building as it looks a bit nicer when stained. If I was going to paint the surface, hemp would probably be just fine although I'll reserve judgement until I have a piece in my hand. There are many uses for hemp. There are many for wood. Trees grow back.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1877015 - 09/03/03 11:33 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Hemp generates huge amounts of plant material in only 3 months, I believe its something like 4 times more efficient (concerning land usage) than wood.


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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #1877024 - 09/03/03 11:39 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Should we clear out the pines used for lumber and instead of re-planting forests, re-plant with hemp?


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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Autonomous]
    #1877026 - 09/03/03 11:40 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I agree that hemp has many benefits, but with responsible forestry trees are definately a renewable resource.


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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Autonomous]
    #1877116 - 09/03/03 12:40 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I was merely giving some info on hemp. But if we had used hemp to create paper, wood and even clothes in the first place then we wouldn't have needed to chop down some many forests. Btw replanted trees are not forests they are another form of farming just instead of animals were rearing and harvesting trees. Forests have entire ecosystems that cannot be replaced in a year by simple replanting.


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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #1877170 - 09/03/03 01:13 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

There is a lot more to proper forestry than replanting.


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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: shakta]
    #1878986 - 09/03/03 10:08 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

One does not have to worship nature in order to respect it. We do have many natural resources but without responsible conservation and renewal efforts (ones that have not yet been implemented, perhaps) then it is all for naught. Hemp is HIGHLY underused in the resource department. Government is afraid to go hog-wild on endorsing it because it is too closely related to it's smokable buddy. And ya know we just cannot have that.


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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Clover]
    #1880490 - 09/04/03 09:06 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I agree. The funny thing is hunters, at least in Texas, do more to conserve the environment than anyone.


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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Clover]
    #1882557 - 09/04/03 09:20 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Hemp is great and all,but I refuse to play a guitar made out of it. :grin: 


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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1882864 - 09/04/03 10:40 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I'll stick with wood for building as it looks a bit nicer when stained.




Fuck the earth. I want my material to look good stained.

Trees grow back, but hemp grows back what, 200-300 times faster than a tree? It's a no brainer dude. I just don't think you want to face how corrupt our leaders are.




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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Learyfan]
    #1882887 - 09/04/03 10:45 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

hemp is nice for alot of things... but for some applications, why not enjoy the beauty of wood?

most trees cut go toward making paper, cardboard, plywood, beams.... it would be great to make these out of hemp instead.

if we made paper products and construction materials out of hemp, the forests could easily sustain a little genuine wood being used to make desks, furniture, guitars, etc.


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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: ]
    #1883087 - 09/04/03 11:30 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

It's fine if wood is used as a novelty material, but it shouldn't be anywhere NEAR the primary building material. LDS made it sound like it was ok to keep hemp production illegal because wood looked better stained.




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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Learyfan]
    #1883971 - 09/05/03 05:09 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

LDS made it sound like it was ok to keep hemp production illegal because wood looked better stained.



Bullshit. Learn to read.

As a plus.... you set a new personal best for asinine statements.

And by the way "oh he who reads but apparently does not comprehend", here's a paste from the article you linked to.......
"And we made a hemp house; we cut all the lumber to build that. We use trees from the side of the hills. My buffalo corrals are made out of boards I cut ."

The building is made partly from WOOD. As a matter of fact, the only hemp product he mentions is the insulation.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Learyfan]
    #1884970 - 09/05/03 01:19 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

LDS made it sound like it was ok to keep hemp production illegal because wood looked better stained.




Bumped for Lerayfan so we can see if he'll either......
a. show me where I said anything like that
or
b. admit he said something foolish.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Registered: 04/20/01
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1885729 - 09/05/03 05:23 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

I made a mistake about the wood, but hemp CAN make any material that wood can weither that guy used it or not. Come on.

You never said that you justify the illegality of hemp because wood looks better when stained but that's what it sounded like to me.




--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: The Tea Company - Make Love Not War



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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Learyfan]
    #1885808 - 09/05/03 05:43 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Well, better than many here would have done.

To clarify, hemp should not be illegal any more than pot should. My comments were based purely on the aesthetic. I like the look of wood.

It grows back.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlineshakta
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Registered: 06/03/03
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1885823 - 09/05/03 05:49 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Yes it does grow back. Legal hemp production would be awesome though.


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OfflineClover
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Registered: 08/01/03
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: shakta]
    #1893352 - 09/08/03 10:08 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

shakta said:
I agree. The funny thing is hunters, at least in Texas, do more to conserve the environment than anyone. 




Although I do not personally know any hunters (or fisherman for that matter) outside of Texas, I will agree that those I know who do reside and hunt here, practice environmental conservation to a degree. For example, catch and release.
Conservation efforts on ANYONE's part is a good thing.  :smile:   


--------------------
"Those sweet excesses I do adore."



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Offlineshakta
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Registered: 06/03/03
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Clover]
    #1893358 - 09/08/03 10:10 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

That is not the limit of it though Clover. The deer population, for example, is managed by hunters and the government together.


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Offlineunlikelyhero
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Registered: 12/31/02
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: shakta]
    #1893392 - 09/08/03 10:34 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Human beings are animals. Just in the same way animals have the right to hunt for their food so do we. Because of the over-population of the earth by humans, however, the vast majority of us can't rely on hunting anymore because we would end up destroying all types of ecosystems and wiping out even more species. Which means most people rely on eating meat which has been cramped into confined spaces and treated like the only reason it is there is to feed us (the arrogance of humanity). If you go and hunt to provide you with food I have the utmost respect for you. I'm a vegetarian but for reasons of being against intensive farming and the fact that i wouldn't want to eat the animals that they treat in the way they do... battery farm chickens, for example. Organic meat is pretty expensive, too.
I read recently that the abundance of cows is partially responsible for high levels of methane in the atmosphere - who's fault is that? Why are there so many cows? Humans.
The world is so over populated now that so many people rely on intensive farming that it means that although most people are willing to eat the flesh of a cow, they would never be able to kill one themselves. IMO, that says something about our culture and how many of our instincts are bottled up through this forced technology-reliant society that most of us live in.

UH

P.S. read 'Ishmael' by Daniel Quinn - a book that not only expresses these ideas MUCH more coherently, but goes into great depth as well.


--------------------
They lie about marijuana. Tell you pot-smoking makes you unmotivated. Lie! When you're high, you can do everything you normally do, just as well. You just realize that it's not worth the fucking effort. There is a difference - Bill Hicks


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: unlikelyhero]
    #1893402 - 09/08/03 10:39 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

I think anyone that eat's meat and is not willing to kill there own food is a wuss. :wink:


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OfflineClover
phenomenal woman
Registered: 08/01/03
Posts: 99
Loc: Beyond the Veil
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: shakta]
    #1894147 - 09/08/03 02:33 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

shakta said:
That is not the limit of it though Clover. The deer population, for example, is managed by hunters and the government together. 




Oh, to be sure. And while I absolutely abhor the concept of hunting for sport, there is no way I would attempt to stop or condemn someone for doing it. It is going to be done regardless what I think anyway! But, there is absolutely something to be said for those hunters (and fisherman, who are by concept, hunters, no?) who help support a balanced ecological system.  :thumbup: 


--------------------
"Those sweet excesses I do adore."



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