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OfflineDava
journeyman
Registered: 03/03/03
Posts: 80
Loc: Belgium
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Ekstaza]
    #1871981 - 09/01/03 07:40 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


No, they learn from their parents how to do these things, just as I have.




No, they mimick.
Animals cant actively learn.
You can take a lil cat away from his mother and raise it on your own.
The cat will know how to capture birds or mice.
Quote:


Do you think that predatory animals are born with the knowledge of how to take down their prey?




So yes. They call that an instinct.

And if we would all learn how to shoot correctly with a gun towards a deer, rabit or duck. Their woulndt be a wildlife left in less than a year.
Quote:


I personally know lots of people who can do these things using their natural ability to think about the situation and improvise




Its not like you are hunting with a spear now huh?
Do you have to do anything more than to wait and point your gun towards it?
Its not like you are in life-danger. Or are you hunting bears with a bow?

I was besides also referring to the empathy-factor.
Most ppl will hesitate to kill a frog, let alone a deer.


Quote:


As I have stated before, I don't think that what this thread is all about has anything to do with ecology at all. Except for the fact that the people who released all of those mink had no concern for the ecology of the area in which they released them into. Besided the farm animals that were lost to the mink, there were undoubtably wildlife losses as well.




I agree, it wasnt a perfect move and i dont justify their action.
But thzey are bringing a small attention span to the fur factories.
And thats a good thing.
If they would stop blabbering about the terroristic act and start blabbering about the 'why'.



--------------------
"These psychedelic substances cause hysterical psychoses in people who have not taken them..."
- Timothy Leary


Edited by Dava (09/01/03 07:48 PM)


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OfflineEkstaza
stranger than most
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 4,322
Loc: Around the corner
Last seen: 2 months, 10 days
Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Dava]
    #1872062 - 09/01/03 08:22 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Dava said:
No, they mimick.
Animals cant actively learn.
You can take a lil cat away from his mother and raise it on your own.
The cat will know how to capture birds or mice.




Animals can be taught. Chipanzees have remarkable abilities to learn sign language and teach it to others. Dogs are taught to obey their owners and to do unlimited numbers of different tasks. And the list goes on and on and on.

Quote:

So yes. They call that an instinct.



Sure, I'll agree that some survival skills are instinct. Although, your everyday housecat will not be able to go out into the wilderness and imediately be able to hunt sufficiently until it has a few trial and error attempts. Learning by trial and error is not instinct.

Quote:

And if we would all learn how to shoot correctly with a gun towards a deer, rabit or duck. Their woulndt be a wildlife left in less than a year.




Just because people know how to take game with a weapon doesn't mean that they are just going to go out and indesciminately kill game species because they can. I usually go hunting with the intention of bringing home just enough meat for my family to have a store of it thoughout the year.

Quote:


Its not like you are hunting with a spear now huh?
Do you have to do anything more than to wait and point your gun towards it?
Its not like you are in life-danger. Or are you hunting bears with a bow?




No, I don't use a spear, although I do know people who hunt with an atillade (I'm not sure of the spelling). It is basically a spear which is thrust using the aid of a long stick in order to allow it to gain more momentum. And yes, they are very successful hunters using this primative weapon. I myself use a compound bow, or a crossbow, or a riffle. I also have a pistol that sometimes hunt with. The only weapon that uses vision enhancing optics is the riffle. Like I said, I'm hunting to help feed my family. I want tto make sure that I bring something home.

And from your statement about just waiting for the animal to walk by and them pointing a gun at it and shooting, I acn tell that you have no understanding of the things that must take place in order for a hunt to be successful.

Quote:

I was besides also referring to the empathy-factor.
Most ppl will hesitate to kill a frog, let alone a deer.





I enjoy eating frog legs just as much as I enjoy eating venison. As do a great many people.

Quote:


I agree, it wasnt a perfect move and i dont justify their action.
But thzey are bringing a small attention span to the fur factories.
And thats a good thing.
If they would stop blabbering about the terroristic act and start blabbering about the 'why'.




I'm afraid you have hit a wall as far that argument goes, because I don't see that there is an issue that needs any attention as far as the fur industry goes. They provide a product that people have determined they want to buy and the product is perfectly legal.


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YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


Edited by Ekstaza (09/01/03 08:39 PM)


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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 32,233
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 8 hours, 40 minutes
Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: z@z.com]
    #1872244 - 09/01/03 09:40 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

z@z.com said:
I could care less about a person's intentions. I'm more concerned with what they actually do.




They're doing a lot. They're standing up for animals. I love animals, so I think they're heroes.




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--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: The Tea Company - Make Love Not War



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OfflineEkstaza
stranger than most
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Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 4,322
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Learyfan]
    #1872276 - 09/01/03 09:48 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
Quote:

z@z.com said:
I could care less about a person's intentions. I'm more concerned with what they actually do.




They're doing a lot. They're standing up for animals. I love animals, so I think they're heroes.




Do you love the animals that were killed as a result of this release.
What they effectively did was cause the death of many animals.

It kills me how most people don't think about all of the angles an issue can be viewed from. They then say something that directly contradicts what they said.


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YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


Edited by Ekstaza (09/01/03 11:56 PM)


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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 32,233
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 8 hours, 40 minutes
Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Ekstaza]
    #1872419 - 09/01/03 10:34 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not talking about this situation. Obviously they fucked up this time, but give them a break. They're extremely passionate about animal rights. I think that's awesome.

I think they should go after Bush next. Look at how he dropped his dog the other day.




--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: The Tea Company - Make Love Not War



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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Learyfan]
    #1872491 - 09/01/03 10:50 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

it's true that many people these days don't have the
passion or vigor to stand up for something that really
means something to them, but wanton destruction
of property will do nothing to turn the tide of public
opinion in favor of their causes.

if anything, they damage the credibility of the legitimate
organizations that seek similar ends.

another great pic, btw, leary.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Anonymous

Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: wingnutx]
    #1872623 - 09/01/03 11:25 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

What a bunch of mindless fucking retards. Anyone who aligns themselves with idiots like those should be shot with shit and hung for stinking.


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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: ]
    #1872627 - 09/01/03 11:26 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


--------------------
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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Anonymous

Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Autonomous]
    #1872649 - 09/01/03 11:32 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)



:wink: 


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OfflineEkstaza
stranger than most
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 4,322
Loc: Around the corner
Last seen: 2 months, 10 days
Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: ]
    #1872706 - 09/01/03 11:55 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mr_Mushrooms said:


:wink: 




Me too! 


--------------------
YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


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OfflineDava
journeyman
Registered: 03/03/03
Posts: 80
Loc: Belgium
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Ekstaza]
    #1873505 - 09/02/03 06:43 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


Animals can be taught. Chipanzees have remarkable abilities to learn sign language and teach it to others. Dogs are taught to obey their owners and to do unlimited numbers of different tasks. And the list goes on and on and on.




Thats not learning, thats rewarding a certain behaviour and hoping that the animal will do it again because of the reward given.
As for chimpansees teaching it to others > mimick.

Quote:


Just because people know how to take game with a weapon doesn't mean that they are just going to go out and indesciminately kill game species because they can. I usually go hunting with the intention of bringing home just enough meat for my family to have a store of it thoughout the year.





But as you said in some posts before, do you keep track of how many deer/whatever are in your hunting grounds? Cause you said you use nature's resources without depleting them. So you must have a record of population right and only shoot the old or weaker?
Or will you one day come to the constation you dont have any animals left to shoot at?


Quote:


Sure, I'll agree that some survival skills are instinct. Although, your everyday housecat will not be able to go out into the wilderness and imediately be able to hunt sufficiently until it has a few trial and error attempts. Learning by trial and error is not instinct.




A lil lion in the wilderness will also have to do some trial-and-error attempts, so that doesnt make any difference.
Animals have a hunting instinct.

Quote:


I'm afraid you have hit a wall as far that argument goes, because I don't see that there is an issue that needs any attention as far as the fur industry goes. They provide a product that people have determined they want to buy and the product is perfectly legal.




Talk about rockbottom.
So its ok because its legal and ppl want it?

Why not dump nuclear waste in your garden?
I surely know the current administration will find a way to make it legal and some ppl will gladly want to do it.
So its ok?


--------------------
"These psychedelic substances cause hysterical psychoses in people who have not taken them..."
- Timothy Leary


Edited by Dava (09/02/03 06:44 AM)


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Offlinecdchriscd
Green Acres

Registered: 04/25/03
Posts: 716
Loc: FL
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Dava]
    #1873526 - 09/02/03 07:14 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I never understood this animal rights nonsense. It's seems one side says "animals are like people, they're intelligent can learn, have feelings," blah blah blah , and the other side just says fuck it, or justifies killing animals somehow. So if the sole argument is animals have human like qualities (or we have animal like qualities, for all the morons who were going to try to derail my argument with that animals came before man nonsense), and there's some sense of equality; then I say what about the humans that are killed daily? Granted, most are killed by other humans, but so what, they're still intelligent life being killed. Unless every animal rights activist feels equally strong, and lobbies and equal amount of there time towards gun control, and other humane interests, they're being bias towards humans.


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Offlinest0nedphucker
Rogue State
Male
Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 1,047
Loc: Wales (yes it is a countr...
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: cdchriscd]
    #1873566 - 09/02/03 08:56 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Now that is possibly one of most nonsensical posts ever. I dont even know where to start....


--------------------
The punishment which the wise suffer, who refuse to take part in government, is to live under the government of worse men.


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OfflineEkstaza
stranger than most
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Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 4,322
Loc: Around the corner
Last seen: 2 months, 10 days
Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Dava]
    #1873702 - 09/02/03 10:57 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Dava said:
Thats not learning, thats rewarding a certain behaviour and hoping that the animal will do it again because of the reward given.
As for chimpansees teaching it to others > mimick.




I you were given no incentive to learn, you would not go to school. Learning is all about rewards; rewards of accomplishment, rewards on monetary gain, rewards of survival.

Quote:

But as you said in some posts before, do you keep track of how many deer/whatever are in your hunting grounds? Cause you said you use nature's resources without depleting them. So you must have a record of population right and only shoot the old or weaker?
Or will you one day come to the constation you dont have any animals left to shoot at?




Yes, I do keep track of deer populations in a general sense and the numbers are rising, not declining. In fact deer populations are growing to such an extent that in some places they are causing problems, i.e. they are eating up crops, they cause more and more car accidents, they are destroying landscapes, and they are depleting their natural foods. In some places they have effectively made extinct certain tree species in the area because they have preferances and eat them until they are all gone. With this population boom also comes starvation and disease for the deer.

Do your homework before coming at me with wildlife conservation "facts" (I thought about this word usage and have recognized that you never said anything you mentioned was fact. It stays because the tone of you posts imply that you have some sort of knowledge about the issue). I am a member of a wildlife conservation organization that understands that in order to preserve the outdoors hunting must be part of the equation.

Quote:

Talk about rockbottom.
So its ok because its legal and ppl want it?

Why not dump nuclear waste in your garden?
I surely know the current administration will find a way to make it legal and some ppl will gladly want to do it.
So its ok?




Like I said, we will just have to agree to disagree when it comes to the fur industry. I come from a different school of thought than you on this issue. I don't find anything wrong with it and you find it absolutely terrible. Although, it has no impact on you if I buy my girlfriend a fur coat other than making you feel disgust. I get disgusted by things people do everyday that are protected by civil rights, but it is not my place to tell anybody what to do as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.

As far as our current administration goes, I say we need to can them all and start over. Bush's war on terrorism is taking away more rights everyday and giving complete victory to those who wanted to change the American way of life.


--------------------
YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


Edited by Ekstaza (09/02/03 05:47 PM)


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OfflineFunguy
Homo SapiensEntheogenous
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Registered: 01/07/03
Posts: 2,415
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Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Ekstaza]
    #1874586 - 09/02/03 05:13 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Ekstaza, you have said everything that I believe exactly. My family would basically starve if myself and my father did not hunt. 90% of our meat is venison, the rest squirrel, rabbit, and fish. I try to use almost every bit of the animal I kill, from fur to bone. Hunting is especially important is some areas considering how our forefathers basically exterminated predators (bear, wolves, cougars) from certain parts of the US.
By the way, has anyone thought about how vegetables feel about being eaten?


--------------------

OTD UNDERDOGS

Is attention your retarded heroin?


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Invisibleafoaf
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Funguy]
    #1874600 - 09/02/03 05:17 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

are you really trying to discredit the anti-hunting
lobby by arguing that vegetables should be granted
the same rights as animals?



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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: afoaf]
    #1874609 - 09/02/03 05:21 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Why shouldn't they?


--------------------
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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Anonymous

Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: afoaf]
    #1874622 - 09/02/03 05:23 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

the anti-hunting lobby doesn't really need to be discredited... it's already ridiculous all by itself.

the fact is that there is nothing wrong whatsoever with eating meat. humans are biologically designed to eat a mix of animal and plant foods. we've been eating meat (read: killing other animals and eating their flesh) for as long as we've been around. there's absolutely nothing wrong with this.

modern factory-style livestock 'production' might be a little unpalatable to some (i personally don't eat beef, pork, milk, or non-free range chicken or eggs), but to deny something so human as hunting wild animals for food is... well... assinine.

i'd prefer to eat the venison, duck, or quail we can hunt around here than factory-raised pork, beef, or chicken any day.


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: ]
    #1874630 - 09/02/03 05:26 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Unless you are a vegan, saying that hunting is wrong is hypocritical.


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Terrorists Eating Farm Animals [Re: Autonomous]
    #1874649 - 09/02/03 05:31 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

why should they?


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