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OfflineSole_Worthy
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 463
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Last seen: 9 years, 21 days
where we came from
    #1862593 - 08/29/03 02:09 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

"we had it all but threw it all away"

On mushrooms I sometimes get the feeling that we, the human race, have come from somewhere else. I feel there is much more to our past than we know, that has been lost to history.

Maybe we did live in Eden with the perfect relationship to God and through time we lost this. Now it has all been forgotten.

Does anyway else believe we have come from something much much different to what we experience today?

Peace


--------------------
get it all together get like birds of a feather


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,849
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Re: where we came from [Re: Sole_Worthy]
    #1862673 - 08/29/03 02:37 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Sole_Worthy said:
Maybe we did live in Eden with the perfect relationship to God and through time we lost this. Now it has all been forgotten.





Maybe that the "perfect relationship with God" wasn't as perfect as it has been made out to be, perhaps that without a negative orientation there was no catalyst to advance in consciousness?

I am not really referring to (what I would describe as a metaphor) the story in the Bible (and its mistaken interpretation that this was a bad thing) as it is commonly known, just that there was proabably a time where there was no ego, no possibilty towards negative thoughts and actions, and as such we were left with no real reason on why we would want to change (everything was already perfect, no desire to pursue anything higher).

Then free will and the possibility of negativity were thrown in, and we were left with something to fight for..
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineDeiymiyan
I AM

Registered: 04/17/03
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Re: where we came from [Re: Sole_Worthy]
    #1862842 - 08/29/03 03:22 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

"Does anyway else believe we have come from something much much different to what we experience today?"
----------------------


Yes... And I believe it was so much more in depth that we don't have anything to compare it to...  So we cannot accurately discuss it....

It's just not in our vocabulary.


Even the most complex kind of answer you could come up with now, would be a simplistic overview in relative comparison.


But, at the same time, although you can't really see the larger scale of it,  you can probably point yourself into the desired direction with the help of lowest terms kind of  symbolism...  [A simplified version] 


For example, if you were talking about yourself, it would be like describing the root system of a tree....  You know on the other side, where the roots change into something else, that different things happen..  [Photosynthesis, as an example in this analogy]...  But, from a root's point of view, where there do not exist things like leaves [ an extra detail ],  photosynthesis would not be possible to discuss in a detailed manner... 

Discussing a root's manner of absorbing things [water and nutrients] is much more simpler than discussing the process of photosynthesis... 

Although both ends are synonymous, in terms of being connected together, when more detail is to be integrated... there is little for the ends to compare.

:eyemouth:





--------------------


Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..



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OfflineSpokesman
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Registered: 08/05/03
Posts: 847
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Re: where we came from [Re: Deiymiyan]
    #1862916 - 08/29/03 03:49 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

According to the bible "god" made a perfect home for us, we pinched some out of his stash and bam! ended up here, shiiieeet i'd be mad too!


--------------------


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: where we came from [Re: Sole_Worthy]
    #1862924 - 08/29/03 03:52 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

As of this moment I think the following:

"Eden" was the earth before we became conscious. Beingness without self awareness. For a while all creatures lived like this. The arrival of conscioussness (it seems) took us away from the paradise of not knowing. The conscious entity views life in terms of duality. "I AM" breeds "I AM NOT".

I think the ego loss produced by shrooms stirs the mind into remembering a time when our ancestors lived in a similar mind state.

The question I want to know the answer to is: What caused us to become conscious in the first place?


--------------------


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: where we came from [Re: Revelation]
    #1863435 - 08/29/03 07:13 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Revelation said:
As of this moment I think the following:

"Eden" was the earth before we became conscious. Beingness without self awareness. For a while all creatures lived like this. The arrival of conscioussness (it seems) took us away from the paradise of not knowing. The conscious entity views life in terms of duality. "I AM" breeds "I AM NOT".

I think the ego loss produced by shrooms stirs the mind into remembering a time when our ancestors lived in a similar mind state.

The question I want to know the answer to is: What caused us to become conscious in the first place?




Nice thoughts, man. I myself, though, believe that perhaps "Eden" wasn't before consciousness came about, but maybe when we were given the other side of the paradox, when I AM and I AM NOT came about.. Now that I think about it, though, what you are desribing is pretty much on, too.

I don't know, though.. entities from a more higher evolved consciousness start to disconnect from the seperate identity.. perhaps it wasn't the arrival of consciousness, just the individual perspective that disconnected us.

Of course, perhaps we were disconnected for a reason.. Maybe that everything was so evolved that everything was One, a big mass of Energy with no seperateness involved. Perhaps something sparked a desire to experience itself, to have this One be divided and subdivided so that the One could have many facets, so that individual perspectives could be formed to experience..

And thus, it begins, a race back towards the One with no divisions, and this cycle continues endlessly...

Quite the concept. Most of it can't even be communicated to others, just something you have to think about and sort of have revealed to you..

Ahh, evolution. Change. Sweet stuff.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: where we came from [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1863724 - 08/29/03 09:27 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Sweet stuff indeed!

Quote:

fireworks_god said:

I don't know, though.. entities from a more higher evolved consciousness start to disconnect from the seperate identity..





Yep, that's what I've been thinking about too. It's a bit of a paradox. Psychedelics seem to produce a state of diminished ego, but at the same time I have heard theories that they were the agents which created consciousness in the first place. Perhaps it depends on the dose...I mean I've had lower dose trips where I was just revelling in the fact of my own existence. And yet at higher level trips I have been completely unable to distinguish myself from the rest of the universe.

At lower doses they make us hyper aware of our own self, and yet at higher doses they make us lose all self awareness entirely.

Wouldn't it be interesting if the same food that caused us to get where we are today (in terms of conscioussness) turned out to be the same food that will cause us to revert to how we were in the beginning. Some kind of cosmic lesson perhaps?

Anyway, I'm just thinking here because I know that our evolution might well have had nothing at all to do with psychedelics - but they do seem like a good candidate. They are like the Monolith from 2001: A Space Odyssey. Something foreign (alien?) introduced into our environment that caused us to suddenly become self aware...




...and then return to innocence.

Ah, it's good to think about.


--------------------


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Offlineentiformatie
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Re: where we came from [Re: Sole_Worthy]
    #1865998 - 08/30/03 04:30 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

i read this book, and im relly hoping somebody knows the book, cause i dont know the title, and its a great book about a society in which everything is "perfect." There is supposed to be no ego. Everybody refers to themselves as we. They are completely stripped of their individuality.

Would you chose to extinguish the ego if it meant the end of the human race, and return to a state of complete nothingness? Or would you chose to assume an identity, and leave the garden of eden. Maybe eden is our mother's womb, or it goes back farther than that. Maybe our life is the result of our wanting an identity, which results in a sperm struggling to fertilize an egg, that gives us an identity. I'm not sure which is better. Is ego really so bad. I mean, life is beautiful, even if at times we dislike what happens. I consider ego to be something that allows me to enjoy life.

Without ego, we'd be in a state of eternal nothingness. Do I really want eternal nothingness? Maybe I will eventually. Maybe I will when I'm older, and tired. But whenever I'm tired now, all I want is temporary sleep. And then I wake up, and Im ready for anything. Or maybe we go to the eternal void, and sleep, and then there is a point in which we awake, and experience life in whatever form it manifests itself in, right now for us as human beings. That makes sense to me.

Whoa, I know that was really long, lol. That was more for me than for anybody else. I've been confused about the issue forever, and I think it's starting to come together for me.


--------------------
/opinion
.sean


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: where we came from [Re: Sole_Worthy]
    #1866011 - 08/30/03 04:37 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Maybe we did live in Eden with the perfect relationship to God and through time we lost this.

There is strong evidence that prior to 10,000 years ago, much of Northern Africa was at one time a lush semi-tropical forest.

The Garden of Eden story could be merely the interpretation of the geological/meteorlogical changes that turned this area into a vast desert wasteland as that of being caused by God's retribution for sinning.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineMurex
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Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
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Re: where we came from [Re: Sole_Worthy]
    #1866964 - 08/30/03 11:00 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

We were all one. Then we seperated ourself.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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OfflinePedM
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Re: where we came from [Re: Murex]
    #1867341 - 08/31/03 01:33 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

The Garden of Eden story, I think, is a wonderful abstraction of man's fall from grace by subscribing to shame.

I believe that the first feelings of deception and shame have since bloomed into everything wretched around us today.

I would elaborate more, but I've run out of time. It's an exciting topic, though!


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace


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InvisibleZero7a1
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Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
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Re: where we came from [Re: Ped]
    #1867411 - 08/31/03 02:05 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

are you talking about Suffering Ped?
------
Swami: I was wondering about this issue to, although i wonder if it had something to do with a community of people... and the advent of climate changes... caused this global community to split and break apart... i think that is kind of the story in the hopi religion? I am not sure. But its striking the simmilarities between the christian book of creation, greek mythology, and summerian (babylonian) religion?
----

Myths are usually a means for communicating something in society, an event or issue between mankind. Its complicated for us to understand why the wrote what they did. For me i have always wondered if they just documented or specualted things which they could not explain. For instance a "drug" or a change in the chemistry/diet of the human being. Thus causing them to break out of their little peace of heaven.

Maybe "drugs" are a means for evolution. Something foreign comes into a new territory and it takes over, changing the landscape, affecting the wildlife in its area. The nature of virus's, plants, animals, even fungus. Maybe this applies to all such organized systems. We as humans do it... when someone very different comes a long to a nice and "stabilized" area... chaos usually arises. And you are thrown from your place of calm grounding... But to me I dont think you can remain ignorant, that would cause you to remain at rest... To be unproductive... ignorant. Maybe the idea of self awareness caused them to ask the first question (them = early humans)... Who is good? Who is bad? Who is a threat, and who is an ally. Or whatever dualistic inquiry you want to create about humans and their surroundings. Maybe it is the first explanation for a genetic change in the human lineage. To me these are probably the most likely possibilities... but who can tell? How are we suppose to know? With so much different information, and without being able to actually be there, we have to rely on either others to find that information and trust them, speculate, or go there ourselves and try to find the remanants of Eden. But i dont think anyone wants to go to Iraq, and be killed by American or Iraqi trooops. Or land mines...


--------------------
What?


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: where we came from [Re: entiformatie]
    #1867812 - 08/31/03 08:04 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Re: where we came from
Quote:

Without ego, we'd be in a state of eternal nothingness.



Certainly our egos will be in a state of nothingness, but that doesn't mean we will be.


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: where we came from [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1867980 - 08/31/03 12:06 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

We would be in a state of pure experience.


--------------------


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: where we came from [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1868245 - 08/31/03 01:51 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Rhizoid said:
Certainly our egos will be in a state of nothingness, but that doesn't mean we will be.
 




Exactly. We would be much more capable of effectively running our lives and also truly experiencing life they way it was meant to be experienced.. say goodbye to Security, Sensation, and Power (or, rather, the addictions to them), we're moving on up to higher consciousness! :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Amazon Shop for: Scales

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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