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Invisible1stimer
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The UN's Stance On Shrooms?
    #1860335 - 08/28/03 09:19 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

What is the UN's drug policy?


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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: The UN's Stance On Shrooms? [Re: 1stimer]
    #1860338 - 08/28/03 09:21 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Basically whatever drug policy the US tells them.


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Anonymous

Re: The UN's Stance On Shrooms? [Re: 1stimer]
    #1862542 - 08/29/03 01:50 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)



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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The UN's Stance On Shrooms? [Re: monoamine]
    #1863717 - 08/29/03 09:25 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

grandmasterfat said:
Basically whatever drug policy the US tells them.




Ahh.. I think you can expect to see a major split between U.S. policy and U.N. policy now.

The U.N. has booted the U.S. out of a lot of committes, and Europe's view on U.S. policy isn't exactly positive...

The U.N., from what I have read, holds a pretty strict stance agansit drug use, I guess, but enforcement of the laws in at least Europe is very lax.. most of the time, being busted with marijuana results in it being taken away, or getting a non-criminal violation ticket..

And, of course, in Ampsterdam, it is completey legal to buy marijuana, mushrooms, and peyote... Coffee shops for the marijuana, Head shops for paraphanelia, and smart shops for the more psychadelic, natural drugs.. (can't remember the fourth kind of shop).
Peace.


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Offlineshakta
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Re: The UN's Stance On Shrooms? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1863731 - 08/29/03 09:31 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ahh.. I think you can expect to see a major split between U.S. policy and U.N. policy now.[/QUOTE]

I think we already have. You do need to remember that the US does have Veto powers on anything that really matters in the UN. This is a result of being a founding member.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The UN's Stance On Shrooms? [Re: shakta]
    #1863748 - 08/29/03 09:36 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, I remember that, but they now hold views that aren't really agreeable...
Peace.


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Offlineshakta
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Re: The UN's Stance On Shrooms? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1863754 - 08/29/03 09:39 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Obviously. The UN serves it's purpose well usually. The thought that we will ever be truely dominated by it is a bit of a stretch though. I am not saying you said this just pointing it out.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The UN's Stance On Shrooms? [Re: shakta]
    #1863765 - 08/29/03 09:46 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

The UN serves its purpose, and it seems to be motivated by a genuine interest in world peace.. I'm sure that a world government headed by them is something that they are dreaming of too, though..
Peace.


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Offlined33p
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Re: The UN's Stance On Shrooms? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1863904 - 08/29/03 10:43 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
And, of course, in Ampsterdam, it is completey legal to buy marijuana, mushrooms, and peyote... Coffee shops for the marijuana, Head shops for paraphanelia, and smart shops for the more psychadelic, natural drugs.. (can't remember the fourth kind of shop).
Peace.




Your wrong. beacuse of the US any nation which is a part of the UN bans all drugs. If you check the laws in the neatherlands it states that pot is illegal as well as all other drugs.

Drugs like pot are simply tolerated which means no one envforces the law but its still there. shrooms just get by on the wet loophole. To bad tho, makes you wanna start your country and just hope to not get invaded by the us for not going along with their drug policy


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Offlineshakta
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Re: The UN's Stance On Shrooms? [Re: d33p]
    #1863907 - 08/29/03 10:44 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

If you don't export them to the US you would be fine.


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Offlined33p
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Re: The UN's Stance On Shrooms? [Re: shakta]
    #1863958 - 08/29/03 11:08 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Export them from where and what?


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The UN's Stance On Shrooms? [Re: d33p]
    #1865142 - 08/30/03 08:20 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
Your wrong. beacuse of the US any nation which is a part of the UN bans all drugs. If you check the laws in the neatherlands it states that pot is illegal as well as all other drugs.

Drugs like pot are simply tolerated which means no one envforces the law but its still there. shrooms just get by on the wet loophole. To bad tho, makes you wanna start your country and just hope to not get invaded by the us for not going along with their drug policy




I'm wrong? Check this out....

Amsterdam Coffeeshop Directory

Quote:


Basically, if you are caught in possession of less than 5 grams of either marihuana or hashish you will not be prosecuted.

The drugs, however, will be confiscated. (i might add, this rarely happens)

If you possess more than 5 grams, you stand a "fair chance" of prosecution.

Coffee-shops are licensed to sell cannabis, but they cannot sell to under 18's, cannot advertise, and cannot stock more than 500 grams of soft drugs.





Hmm... coffee shops being licensed to sell it, it is decriminalized in the city... There are machines that sell marijuana in Spain.. Britian rarely enforces their laws.. There is a big difference between laws being imposed due to the U.S.'s stance on such, and the European countries enforcing them..
Peace.




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If I should die this very moment
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For I've never known completeness
Like being here
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Anonymous

Re: The UN's Stance On Shrooms? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1865247 - 08/30/03 10:22 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

cannabis is not legal in the netherlands. they just don't enforce.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The UN's Stance On Shrooms? [Re: ]
    #1865255 - 08/30/03 10:36 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Cannabis isn't illegal? There are contradictory laws, due to the UN's stance, but it is perfectly legal for coffee shops and smart shops to sell marijuana, peyote, and mushrooms as long as they are chartered with the city, do not sell more than a certain limit, and don't advertise.

As long as you are not getting involved with hard drugs, or selling large amounts on the streets, then you are fine. If you do get confronted, which doesn't happen, they just take it away. Or maybe give you the equivalent of a parking ticket (a non-criminal violation).

They are basically required to have the laws by the UN, but it contradicts their own views and in no way really enforce it. Even in England.

The United States, however, keeps a hardline stance in the states to keep the prices shored up. As, for the most part, it is the United States government shipping the drugs in to make millions of unaccounted for profit to aid them in whatever unseen missions they have going on, and the fight itself keeps thousands of people employed, so don't expect to see the United States loosen up on the laws. (Even though several states are beginning to stop enforcement. the laws are still there, and so are the contradictory ones that make it possible to look the other way...).
Peace.


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If I should die this very moment
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Anonymous

Re: The UN's Stance On Shrooms? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1865266 - 08/30/03 10:49 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

nope. i do believe that on the books, ganja is illegal in holland. do you have a source for all that?


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The UN's Stance On Shrooms? [Re: ]
    #1865275 - 08/30/03 11:03 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Hhm... Check out The Amsterdam Coffee Shop Directory. They are real businesses that operate in Amsterdam. And they also sell marijuana, mushrooms, and peyote.

Here, call this number: 0031 (0)20 4204301. It is the number for Grey Area, one of the hundreds of coffee shops that sell legally, chartered by the city.. Go ahead, call them up, ask them how it is possible for them to sell it and ask about Amsterdam's drug policies.

I came across an in depth article on the specifics of the drug policy history, and it gives specifics, so I will continue to search for it so I can provide you with even more proof...
Peace.


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
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:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The UN's Stance On Shrooms? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1865280 - 08/30/03 11:07 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

This isn't what I am looking for right now, but it is good nonetheless:

Quote:


Drug Policy in the Netherlands
I went to the Netherlands to study the exact characteristics of their “tolerant” approach to drug policy. I went with a group from the White Dog Caf? in Philadelphia led by employees interested in changing many U.S. domestic and international policies. They arranged a study tour with an organization in Amsterdam called Quest for Quality, a tour group with an expertise in relaying information on drug policy to visitors partly in an effort to counteract statements of important opposing foreign actors such as Barry McCaffrey and France’s Chirac and also as an effort to influence the European community in general.
Of course, the first efforts were to understand the policy in the Netherlands. It is actually surprisingly restrictive. However, it is still much more open toward use. This has to do not only with the laws themselves and their intellectual and cultural basis, but also those that are chosen to uphold the laws including police, prosecutors, and the mayor of the city. To understand the policy we need to also understand the culture that made the policy. If one looks at the long and short history of Amsterdam, the results are self-evident. One could say the same thing with an eye towards the U.S. policy.

The Netherlands decided to look at things differently than the U.S., with its moral stronghold. This is evident in many examples of U.S. politicians’ ideological statements about the Netherlands drug policy. For a good example we could go straight to the former champion of our national drug policy and his “fact finding mission” with his statement before even visiting the country to find these so-called “facts” (that was also instantly regurgitated to the press), “the Dutch drug policy is a failure.” And who can forget his awesome justification for this: that the murder rate in the Netherlands was double that in the United States. This, of course, is not true, but neither are many of the stats that McCaffrey ever used.*

The more tolerant, proactive drug policy in the Netherlands is a result of sociological scientific studies of their academics in the last hundred years in combination with opinions, culture, and a political framework set by the rest of the world, specifically the U.S. The policy is recognition of the paradoxical nature of drug laws. Prohibition yields a black market, which yields a much more dangerous public health situation. By medicalizing the policy instead of politicizing it, there are in fact less users and better public health among users, a fact that the U.S., Italy, and France would never be willing to admit. The so-called “war against drugs” in effect promotes the illegal trade in and unsafe consumption of often below-par drugs. A brief look at the multitudes of scientific literature will paint a very different picture than any views that successfully flourish in the U.S., our beacon to personal freedom.

*This blatant misuse of statistics as an effort to influence public opinion with sheer propaganda via our “free” corporate news outlets is of course perfectly justified. McCaffrey was, I’m sure, merely attempting to accomplish his mission, and this is why he is currently one head of counterinsurgency training in Peru, the same counter-insurgency that is responsible for the murder of a missionary’s wife and baby with one of many machinegun bullets in the downing of an aircraft thought to be smuggling drugs. The U.S. is perhaps now faced with a challenge in the Andes that cannot be overcome—growing political pressure among many South American politicians for legalization. If Vietnam is any indication though, similar false ideologies will be crushed.





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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
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Like being here
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Anonymous

Re: The UN's Stance On Shrooms? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1865282 - 08/30/03 11:08 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

eh... who wrote that?


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The UN's Stance On Shrooms? [Re: ]
    #1865283 - 08/30/03 11:13 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Ahh.. finally found it. MUST READ:

Quote:

Technically, the legal situation is quite complicated. International treaties preclude the Netherlands from legalising cannabis, even if they wanted to. Cannabis is illegal in Holland but possession of a small quantity is considered to be a misdemeanour rather than a criminal offence.

In practice, the possession of up to 30 grams (about an ounce) is permitted. You can only buy 5 grams at a time, though, so you could be asked to explain if you are carrying more than 5 grams.

Regulations for coffee shops include:

No advertising
No exporting outside of the Netherlands
Absolutely No Hard Drugs
A maximum quantity of 5 grams sold to each customer
A maximum of 500 grams of stock
No sales to under 18s

Incidentally, the 500 gram stock rule is routinely broken by the busier shops. It is used by the authorities as a pretence for occasional random raids to keep an eye on them.
History
The coffeeshop phenomenon began in the early 1970's. Even then, the Netherlands realised that the war on drugs was lost and that they had to find a way of reducing the impact of drugs on their society. To that end, they sought to draw a clear line between hard and soft drugs and concentrated their law enforcement effort on hard drugs. Those involved in smuggling and trading heroin and cocaine were to be hunted down and prosecuted; those addicted to heroin were to be treated as sick, like alcoholics; and those in possession of cannabis were to be, virtually, ignored.

The pioneering coffeeshops exploited this situation by openly selling cannabis. They were frequently busted but kept coming back for more. There is some debate about which was the first coffeeshop but the most famous was certainly The Bulldog established in 1975 by a guy called Henk de Vries in a former brothel in the Red Light district. Just for completeness, the real first was probably Mellow Yellow (no longer under original management) and even before that The Melkweg (see clubs) was doing a bit of dealing. Rusland was another pioneer.

In 1976 the first steps were taken to decriminalise cannabis. The law was changed so that the possession of up to 30 grams of cannabis was no longer a criminal offence. Coffeeshops, however, remained completely illegal until 1980. Nevertheless, they continued to thrive and multiply.

1980 saw the beginning of the 'tolerance' policy towards coffeeshops. So long as there were never any hard drugs on the premises and they were reasonably discreet, they were generally left alone. Since then coffee shops have spread across Amsterdam and into most parts of the Netherlands. Initially, most Dutch people disapproved of coffee shops. Over time attitudes have softened and they are now widely accepted but the Netherlands is subject to constant international pressure from less enlightened governments like those in France, UK and US.

By the 1990's Amsterdam considered that it had too many coffee shops and that some were selling hard drugs. Encouraged by international pressure they decided that drastic action was required. At the same time, some of the better coffee shops were organising themselves into a union, the BCD (Bond van Cannabis Detaillisten). After some argument, a compromise was agreed by the city council that rather suited the members of the BCD.

In 1995 it was decided that the number of coffeeshops would be dramatically reduced by closing all those engaged in illegal activities. The remainder would then be licensed by the council. The number of licences was frozen and the licences made non-transferable in an effort to further reduce numbers over time. All coffeeshops now display a small green and white sticker that shows that they are licensed to sell cannabis. The selection of coffeeshops in Amsterdam has remained virtually unchanged since '95. In theory, the '95 regulations also outlawed the selling of alcohol and cannabis on the same premises but this does not seem to be enforced.

Outside Amsterdam, the situation varies between localities. As you might expect, coffeeshop density is highest where population is highest, that is, in the Randstad, the doughnut-shaped urban area formed by Amsterdam, Utrecht, Rotterdam, The Hague and the countless cities and towns that join them. Even in this area there are considerable local variations, though. The policy towards coffeeshops is decided at a local level. In some towns there are none whatsoever. In others they are not allowed to display signs or are subject to other limitations.

From Hash to Nederwiet
In the early days, coffee shops sold mostly imported hashish (cannabis resin). Nowadays Dutch-grown grass dominates most menus (although hash is still available). The famous 'skunk' originated in America. When it was introduced into the Netherlands, the more relaxed environment and endemic Dutch horticultural skills led to this variety being further improved. Although Holland's climate is not particularly conducive to growing marijuana, the use of artificial lighting for indoor growing has become highly advanced. There are now hundreds of named varieties of seeds available and large-scale cultivation supplies the coffee shops with a good range of exotic herbs.

Growing up to half-a-dozen marijuana plants for home consumption is, effectively, legal. Commercial growing is, however, still illegal so the 'grow rooms' that supply the coffeeshops are still very secretive.






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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Anonymous

Re: The UN's Stance On Shrooms? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1865324 - 08/30/03 11:50 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

nice article.  :thumbup:


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