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Blackd0ve420
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: Sillyputty67]
#18595231 - 07/22/13 04:10 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think you both are on the same page basically. PS is talking more specifics while Malc is more general. It is a cubensis...it's a not a different species so it should theoretically grow the same as any other (Fancy name) cubensis.
My input would be that some other more popular genetics have been used so much you might be stressing them. With fresh genetics from a different origin who knows what phenotypes etc.. you'll unlock (See claybuddy's results). My take.
Edit: Primal I don't think clay had a thread he just posted on yours.
-------------------- Just let it all go.. Laugh at the world and be free, Then Just breathe, Just breathe... *Blackdove* Click for Catnip!
Edited by Blackd0ve420 (07/22/13 04:14 PM)
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: Sillyputty67]
#18595293 - 07/22/13 04:25 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
If you can domesticate a morel, does it mean you changed its direction in evolution, or did you just find a tek to accommodate it?
Can you domesticate a truffle? 
Ignore the word and look at the process. A strain that breeds true in captivity SFAIK is the result of a lot of generations being selected for the desired phenotype, nothing more, nothing less. It implies a genetic filtering of some kind imposed on the original wild type genetic expression. Then if you hand twenty or twenty-thousand newbs the end product they all generally grow pretty much the same thing, instead of twenty or twenty-thousand different things. 
Quote:
Edit: Primal I don't think clay had a thread he just posted on yours.
Really?
PS
Edited by PrimalSoup (07/22/13 04:31 PM)
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Sillyputty67

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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: PrimalSoup]
#18595714 - 07/22/13 05:49 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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The morel thing is just an example, as its yet to truely be "domesticated". Much like the said truffle.
Sure you can stabilize phenotypes for successive prints, is that domestication? Not sure it fits the profile. As soon as the first mushroom sprouted indoors, the species was domesticated. A lot of strains like AA+, APE, Albino F are all work like you describe. I just have a hard time calling it domesticating. Cubes lend themselves to domestication by their agreeable nature, unlike other fungi, which we would love to domesticate.
-------------------- 1) Everything I ever posted or say is a lie.
Edited by Sillyputty67 (07/22/13 05:49 PM)
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: Sillyputty67]
#18596272 - 07/22/13 07:26 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Forget about etymology, it doesn't serve you here. Give it another name or no name at all, I don't care what. 
I've had a Psilocybe cyanescens fruiting culture go through accidental heatshock and emerge with a completely different growth habit regarding pinning initiation and fruiting temperature. The changes were stable into future generations. That was a profound alteration of phenotypical characteristics, invoked by an environmental stressor, but it points to the inherent mutability of such things.
What I asked was germane to the strain thread - for people who have developed strains that are widely recognized, what did it take to do it from the wild specimens? Simply culturing? Or a whole lot of agar work and generations (which is what I typically read, but not from the originator).
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Sillyputty67

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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: PrimalSoup]
#18596494 - 07/22/13 08:12 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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I see where you are going, and basically we are agreeing and mincing semantics. To put it into perspective, we are talking the difference between Labradors, and Wolves. Wolves can be brought indoors, not always perfectly, but still be essentially domesticated, but the labradors like you are talking about have already been selectively bread.
However I would still argue that as soon as the first canine was tamed indoors, (canus domesticus) was domesticated. From this point forward we knew that the species lends itself to domestication. You could even call it symbiosis. I still think you could call our relationships with the fungus as cultivars symbiosis.
-------------------- 1) Everything I ever posted or say is a lie.
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Blackd0ve420
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: Sillyputty67]
#18596721 - 07/22/13 08:47 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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hmmm I see where you're going with this. So you suggest we should lure the phenotypes out with raw meat then tame them once we capture them...brilliant!
Jk'ing of course , I like that analogy. Interesting also Primal about what you said regarding the filtering and how even if 20000 people cultivated the specimen it would still have a general look. Of course we don't really have that data for indoor fruits yet...we probably will get some variety for all we know..I mean hey if all fruits are sterile again that that's more distribution for me :P.
Main point, since the wild specimen has spent generations upon generations in the wild..suddenly transferred to indoor specifications, that would give other genetics a chance that they may not have other had in nature..
Or we could say perhaps what we see as the difference between wild fruit genetics and indoor fruit from wild genetics would be natural selection...whatever genetics responds best to the indoor transition will most likely survive. Since those genetics are going to be in varying specimens you'll get similar fruits like primal said. Just a theory and if I have holes in it feel free to point them out.
-------------------- Just let it all go.. Laugh at the world and be free, Then Just breathe, Just breathe... *Blackdove* Click for Catnip!
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Sillyputty67

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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please *DELETED* [Re: Blackd0ve420]
#18596795 - 07/22/13 09:00 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Post deleted by malicomReason for deletion: 1
-------------------- 1) Everything I ever posted or say is a lie.
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Blackd0ve420
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: Sillyputty67]
#18599296 - 07/23/13 11:10 AM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Sounds like an awesome good time . Hey malc you'll have to set aside a print for me when I get back in the game :P!
I have a question though. Based off this in primal's thread Quote:
grainbrain said: I was not able to photograph my first flush of Culture #1, but all of the fruits were sterile. The veils bruised blue as they stretched and the gills also had blue bruising.
From the first run, I'd say that these guys prefer a little more FAE than other, more domesticated cubes. Time will tell.
This is the 2nd sterile culture in a row..2/2..separate prints from a wild specimen to domestication like primal described. My question is mainly: What is the cause of sterility in mushroom fruits?
This appears to be genetic but I'm interested in some more specifics.
-------------------- Just let it all go.. Laugh at the world and be free, Then Just breathe, Just breathe... *Blackdove* Click for Catnip!
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: Sillyputty67]
#18599479 - 07/23/13 12:03 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
I see where you are going, and basically we are agreeing and mincing semantics.
Semiotics, more likely. But what the hell. I'd love to see somebody do a 20 isolate comparison on the PM, look at several prints at least, for some reason they all seem to be coming up sterile. OTOH perhaps that's a signifier of higher potency, dunno. 
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Sillyputty67

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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please *DELETED* [Re: PrimalSoup]
#18599491 - 07/23/13 12:06 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Post deleted by malicomReason for deletion: 1
-------------------- 1) Everything I ever posted or say is a lie.
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Blackd0ve420
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: Sillyputty67]
#18599508 - 07/23/13 12:10 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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-------------------- Just let it all go.. Laugh at the world and be free, Then Just breathe, Just breathe... *Blackdove* Click for Catnip!
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ghiajake
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: Blackd0ve420]
#18599570 - 07/23/13 12:24 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Blackd0ve420 said:
I have a question though. Based off this in primal's thread Quote:
grainbrain said: I was not able to photograph my first flush of Culture #1, but all of the fruits were sterile. The veils bruised blue as they stretched and the gills also had blue bruising.
From the first run, I'd say that these guys prefer a little more FAE than other, more domesticated cubes. Time will tell.
This is the 2nd sterile culture in a row..2/2..separate prints from a wild specimen to domestication like primal described. My question is mainly: What is the cause of sterility in mushroom fruits?
This appears to be genetic but I'm interested in some more specifics.
I still wanna know if he cultured a rhizo section, like Clay, and if this might be why they have been sterile. Could it be that this strain has evolved to better fertility with the whispier growth?
PS and/or BD: Does anyone else have a log going of these other than you and me?
Edited by ghiajake (07/23/13 12:40 PM)
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blojo02184
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: ghiajake]
#18599672 - 07/23/13 12:48 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Theory... Not activating all the genetics within the organism could lead to sterility.
Example, person doesn't use white blood cells, white cells die off, person not fighting off organisms.
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ghiajake
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: blojo02184]
#18599749 - 07/23/13 01:06 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Kinda glad I'm spawning straight from first gen plates then. I'm hoping using the wide array of genetics will help. Then I can isolate from a clone of the best fruit.
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Blackd0ve420
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: ghiajake]
#18599924 - 07/23/13 01:39 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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No one else has a log..yet prints are getting shipped out after I had a tough summer finals week/life drama...simply put: No other logs now but there will likely be more soon.
As for the theory I am stumped so perhaps that could be it. We'll wait around for some one to clarify..
I just find it strange that it happened from two separate cultures and wondering what that would imply.
-------------------- Just let it all go.. Laugh at the world and be free, Then Just breathe, Just breathe... *Blackdove* Click for Catnip!
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Sillyputty67

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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: Blackd0ve420]
#18600081 - 07/23/13 02:13 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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At this point, i suspect it implies nothing. We need more data.
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blojo02184
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: Blackd0ve420]
#18600106 - 07/23/13 02:17 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah, someone could probably give a better answer.
I don't know how to activate genes either... Maybe purposely add small contams? Treat with h2o2... That activates some genes I believe, because the organism generates enzymes to fight off the peroxide.
This is how I think you'll get gene activation... Or something along those lines...
Or I could just be spreading wrongness.
But my gut is saying gene activation is possibly the reason for the sterility in 2 completely separate grows, both using different subs and spawn.
But like malc said, more data is needed... Along with more knowledge on the subject.
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ghiajake
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: blojo02184]
#18600239 - 07/23/13 02:46 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Workin on that. Got 4 qts I spawned 5 days ago off 2 partially colonized plates (saved the rest, doing good again), and 12 qts off of two fully colonized plates I just got done spawning.
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grainbrain
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: ghiajake]
#18600370 - 07/23/13 03:17 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Interesting discussion. I'm eager to see the first indoor Purple Mystics that produce spores. 
In looking at blackdove's photos of the outdoor cow patties, I noticed that it was the wispy myc that seemed most prevalent.
On my own grow, it is also possible that I needed to do more transfers & that contams were present. I've never seen sterile fruits before (aside from PE/PEU), so cannot attribute that either way.
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ghiajake
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion Here Only Please [Re: grainbrain]
#18601460 - 07/23/13 07:04 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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If you look on the first page of my log BD posted a bunch of pics of them. One is a pic of a good size patch of wild mycelium. Looks all fuzzy.
GB, you haven't mentioned how the potency was.
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