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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,281
Politics of Porn
    #1859829 - 08/28/03 04:41 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Politics of Porn
Justice Department Launches Long-Anticipated War on Obscenity

By Jake Tapper


Aug. 28
? Rob Zicari and his fianc?e, Janet Romano, are facing the first major federal prosecution for obscenity in more than a decade. They face 10 counts relating to the production and distribution by mail of obscene materials, and each could get 50 years in prison and a fine of up to $2.5 million.

"We're facing more time than the guy that they just arrested that was trying to sell the surface-to-air missile," said Zicari.

On April 8, law enforcement seized five movies produced by Zicari's California-based company, Extreme Associates, which bills itself as "The Hardest Hard Core on the Web."

One of the confiscated movies, Forced Entry, features three graphic scenes of women being spat upon, raped and murdered. Extreme Teens #24 has adult women dressed up and acting like little girls in various hard-core pornographic scenes. We can't even tell you the title of one of the films.

?There?s Nothing Wrong With What We Do?

Most Americans would probably find the content of the films disgusting. Zicari doesn't disagree ? but he says to each his own.

"There's nothing wrong with what we do," said Zicari. "[W]e're not drug dealers or murderers, you know. We make movies. That's it."

But for the Bush administration, that's enough.

"Obscenities have always been a priority of the attorney general," said Mary Beth Buchanan, U.S. attorney for western Pennsylvania. "[A]nd he has asked each U.S. attorney to make that our priority as well."

Buchanan is the lead prosecutor on the case against Zacari. So jurors in Pittsburgh will have to decide if Zicari's movies fit the legal definition of obscenity.

"The material depicted in the videotapes produced by Extreme Associates is extremely vile, degrading and extremely offensive to women," Buchanan said.

The nature of Extreme Associates' movies makes it an ideal target for Attorney General John Ashcroft's Justice Department's opening salvo in its long-anticipated war on obscenity.

Ashcroft had planned on launching the anti-obscenity initiative back in 2001, but was sidetracked by the 9/11 terror attacks. Now the issue is once again a priority for the Justice Department.

"I can tell you that as long as I'm chief of the section, the section will work very hard to prosecute obscenity cases along with child pornography, another important focus for us," said Andrew Oosterbaan, chief of the Justice Department's Child Exploitation and Obscenity Section.

"This is about a priority for the country. This is something the country wants prosecuted and therefore we're prosecuting it."

Hard to Watch = Difficult to Defend

The Justice Department has chosen its target wisely. Zicari's films are difficult to watch ? which may make them difficult to defend.

To meet the legal definition of obscenity, a film has to depict sex in an offensive and prurient fashion with no artistic value. It is this subjectivity that worries some in the industry.

Paul Fishbein, president of Adult Video News, a trade journal for the adult entertainment industry, is well aware of the conflict presented by the films of Extreme Associates. "They're horrible, unwatchable, disgusting, aberrant movies that I'd have to vote were not obscenity because the First Amendment is pure and has to remain pure," he said.

"The funny thing about my business is I don't force it on anybody," said Zicari. "The only people that are going to be forced to watch my movies are the 12 people that sit on that jury."

The Bush administration says that overall, adult films today are far more offensive than ever before. It places much of the blame with the Clinton administration for, it claims, not making obscenity prosecutions a priority.

People inside the multibillion-dollar porn industry say community standards have become more accepting in recent years, pointing to the success of Boogie Nights, a drama about 1970s adult filmmakers, several years ago.

Pleasing the Christian Right

Many anti-obscenity activists are members of the Christian right, a group that generally admires Ashcroft and is a key constituency in President Bush's re-election campaign.

Zicari vows that he'll fight this to the end. But it's unlikely that his prosecution will be the last.

"The current prosecution of Extreme Associates should put the pornography industry on notice that the U.S. Department of Justice is vigorously enforcing the federal obscenity laws," said Buchanan.

Zicari and Romano were arraigned Wednesday in Pittsburgh. Both pleaded not guilty.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/US/porno030828.html


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Offlined33p
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Re: Politics of Porn [Re: wingnutx]
    #1859896 - 08/28/03 04:57 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

"The material depicted in the videotapes produced by Extreme Associates is extremely vile, degrading and extremely offensive to women," Buchanan said.

Wow the women wchose to be in film. When will people treat women as equals. Since when can you go to jail for 50 years just beause you make women look bad.

But snuff... now thats just fucked up


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OnlineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Politics of Porn [Re: d33p]
    #1859930 - 08/28/03 05:07 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

"The funny thing about my business is I don't force it on anybody," said Zicari. "The only people that are going to be forced to watch my movies are the 12 people that sit on that jury."

Now that's ironic.


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InvisibleAutonomous
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Re: Politics of Porn [Re: wingnutx]
    #1859944 - 08/28/03 05:10 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

John Ashcroft needs to be raped by Janet Reno with a strap on.


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: Politics of Porn [Re: wingnutx]
    #1860048 - 08/28/03 05:43 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I feel much safer that they're putting real criminals behind bars.

I think that everyone here can agree that:

1. No one is forcing these women to be in these films.
2. Some of these women might actually get off on this kind of thing and not see it as degrading.
3. No one is being forced to watch these movies (besides the jury).


--------------------
People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,281
Re: Politics of Porn [Re: monoamine]
    #1860075 - 08/28/03 05:53 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I read about a case in California last month where the jury was hung because they couldn't make it through an entire film.

I felt sorry for the old grandma on the jury that had to sit through 90 minutes of Max Hardcore shennanigans.

At least that was a state case. I don't approve of prosecuting porn makers, but I can sort of buy a 'local standards' argument. This one is federal, so you don't even get that.

There's a pretty good fight over this on freerepublic :smile:


Edited by wingnutx (08/28/03 05:55 PM)


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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: Politics of Porn [Re: wingnutx]
    #1860112 - 08/28/03 06:08 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I think "local standards" are bullshit.The constitution is the highest law of the land and like the guy in the article said,it has to be totally pure.What's obsene and what's not is too damn subjective. Many hardcore porn makers see there process of filming and camera angles as an art.Even if you don't agree, I don't see how obscenity laws can be carried out in any kind of objective way.


--------------------
People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
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Offlineshakta
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Re: Politics of Porn [Re: monoamine]
    #1862264 - 08/29/03 09:26 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I thought we were past this whole obscenity thing. :rolleyes:


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Politics of Porn [Re: shakta]
    #1862331 - 08/29/03 10:03 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

shakta said:
I thought we were past this whole obscenity thing. :rolleyes: 




Exactly. What the FUCK?

If he's selling snuff or kiddie porn he should be hung from his balls, but if it's just a film that Ashcroft doesn't deem "artistic" then Ashcroft should be hung from his balls for trying this bullshit(and for everything else he does).

The Bush administration keep on easing us out of democracy.


 


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Mp3 of the month: The Mamas and The Papas - Strange Young Girls



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Offlineshakta
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Re: Politics of Porn [Re: Learyfan]
    #1862349 - 08/29/03 10:13 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I think the President needs to pull Ashcroft in a bit. This might be a good thing actually. They government will lose like they always do in these cases, and that will be the end of it.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Politics of Porn [Re: shakta]
    #1862880 - 08/29/03 01:36 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

ahhhh, man!

Extreme Teen is the shit!

psychological studies have found no valid correlation between porn availability and rape rates.

A lot of women complain about porn and strip clubs, but I'm willing to put money on the prediction that getting rid of smut would drastically increase the rape rates, as men would have no outlet to "let off steam"

just my opinion


--------------------
Deep in the heart of Central Texas
lurks a Doktor
SM tool
Native Dallas brick-chopper...


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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,281
Re: Politics of Porn [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1862895 - 08/29/03 01:43 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

If that's true, then how come there was no rape before the invention of the camera? Huh, smart guy?

:laugh:



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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


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Re: Politics of Porn [Re: wingnutx]
    #1862906 - 08/29/03 01:46 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

There have always been sheep.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Politics of Porn [Re: wingnutx]
    #1862911 - 08/29/03 01:47 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

according to the bible* , rape started when Satan came to earth and created evil substances like marijuana and mushrooms :smile:







* (not really)


--------------------
Deep in the heart of Central Texas
lurks a Doktor
SM tool
Native Dallas brick-chopper...


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Politics of Porn [Re: wingnutx]
    #1863480 - 08/29/03 05:26 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

"I can tell you that as long as I'm chief of the section, the
section will work very hard to prosecute obscenity cases
along with child pornography..."

that's an underhanded way to try to lump *obscene* porn
in with the likes of child porn.

pfft.

in a case like this where the actors and the customers are
willing parties, that's like saying:

"the section will work very hard to prosecute jay walking
cases along with terrorism..."

a vain attempt at villifying one offense by associating it
with a much more vile one.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Politics of Porn [Re: afoaf]
    #1863488 - 08/29/03 05:29 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I agree. Ashcroft is a jackass.


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InvisibleAutonomous
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Re: Politics of Porn [Re: shakta]
    #1863489 - 08/29/03 05:30 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

:heartpump: I feel the love - we can all agree on something.


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Politics of Porn [Re: Autonomous]
    #1863499 - 08/29/03 05:33 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Hehehehe.


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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: Politics of Porn [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1865066 - 08/30/03 04:59 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

psychological studies have found no valid correlation between porn availability and rape rates.

A lot of women complain about porn and strip clubs, but I'm willing to put money on the prediction that getting rid of smut would drastically increase the rape rates, as men would have no outlet to "let off steam"





I hate it when people say that porn objectifies women and makes men more violent towards them. I and every other man I know that watches porn doesn't abuse women or anything of the sort.Guys (and women) are sexual by nature. I've never thought "hey,I hate women,I would like to beat or rape one" after I watch a porno.
Like you said,people that make this claim never have any hard evidence to back it up.


--------------------
People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


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OfflineClover
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Re: Politics of Porn [Re: monoamine]
    #1865281 - 08/30/03 09:07 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Exactly!
Especially since rape has absolutely nothing to do with sex itself and has to do with power OVER someone in the most vulnerable situation possible.

Let's not forget that some women also view porn (while it is a minority of voices that will admit it) and actually enjoy it. In fact, according to THE HITE REPORT (I believe this was the book, circa 1977) it showed that women were just as likely as men to "sneak a peek" when porn was involved. Granted, most of the women state that they watched it because of (1) curiousity and (2) they wanted to know what turned men on, But I beg to differ! I believe it is watched (this is certainly why I do) because it is actually a turn-on, not because I think I can glean any techniques in order to satisfy a man or woman.

What is interesting too is that the same book offered a glimpse into the fantasies of real, everyday women and I would say alot (undefinable number but higher than lower) of women confessed to endulging in fantasies of rape or role-paly of the same. This reveals an incredible dichotomy of power and sex that most women are afraid to confront.

Anyway, completely off subject but valid nonetheless.


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"Those sweet excesses I do adore."



Edited by Clover (08/30/03 09:26 AM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Politics of Porn [Re: Learyfan]
    #1865289 - 08/30/03 09:21 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
The Bush administration keep on easing us out of democracy.


 




No, not our President Bush! He's our hero fighting the good fight on all fronts! :grin:

Thank god that elections are still allowed, even though he seems to have an ability to reverse the outcome of them to fit his own needs...
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlined33p
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Re: Politics of Porn [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1865542 - 08/30/03 11:20 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

Learyfan said:
The Bush administration keep on easing us out of democracy.


 




No, not our President Bush! He's our hero fighting the good fight on all fronts! :grin:

Thank god that elections are still allowed, even though he seems to have an ability to reverse the outcome of them to fit his own needs...
Peace. 




O god not another one :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

And since America was never a democracy it leads me to bealive that what learyfan said was just purely an atempt at trashing bush, but now that couldnt be?


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Politics of Porn [Re: d33p]
    #1865857 - 08/30/03 01:26 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

And since America was never a democracy it leads me to bealive that what learyfan said was just purely an atempt at trashing bush, but now that couldnt be?




You act as if I don't slag Bush based on what I feel he's doing to our country/world.





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OfflineCornholio
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Re: Politics of Porn [Re: d33p]
    #1866312 - 08/30/03 03:55 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
And since America was never a democracy it leads me to bealive that what learyfan said was just purely an atempt at trashing bush, but now that couldnt be? 


Bush said "As a shining beacon of freedom and DEMOCRACY, America has inspired the world"!  Are you calling our president a liar???  :shocked:   


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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
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Re: Politics of Porn [Re: Clover]
    #1866394 - 08/30/03 04:26 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

maybe the girls do want to be in it but some of the stuff is real sick

like ,I have "heard" hehehe that their is porn out there that is simulated rape, etc etc

hell I like porn but some of this stuff really makes me wonder, and vommit, not max hardcore though, thats not the SICK shit out there



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OfflineClover
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Re: Politics of Porn [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #1867368 - 08/30/03 11:42 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I did not question whether or not women wanted to be "included" in porn, I stated that they are more likely to *view* it when given the opportunity. The dichotomy I was attempting to illustrate was between women involving themselves in rape fantasy or role-play and knowing at the same time the purpose of rape.


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"Those sweet excesses I do adore."



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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Politics of Porn [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #1867415 - 08/31/03 12:07 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

simulated rape, etc




I've never seen one and don't want to, but that's absolutely abhorrent to me. Just the idea that guys are beating off to videos of simulated rape.





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--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: The Mamas and The Papas - Strange Young Girls



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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: Politics of Porn [Re: Learyfan]
    #1867420 - 08/31/03 12:09 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Well,if they want to beat of to simulated rape,that's their thing. As long as they don't do it in real life,what's the problem?


--------------------
People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Politics of Porn [Re: monoamine]
    #1868402 - 08/31/03 12:56 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I don't think simulated rape porn should be illegal. Simply for the fact that they don't make simulated murder movies illegal.

I just think it's sad that rape gets some guys off is all.




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Anonymous

Re: Politics of Porn [Re: wingnutx]
    #1868423 - 08/31/03 01:08 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

The Perils of Pornophobia
by Nadine Strossen

In 1992, in response to a complaint, officials at Pennsylvania State University unceremoniously removed Francisco de Goya's masterpiece, The Nude Maja, from a classroom wall. The complaint had not been lodged by Jesse Helms or some irate member of the Christian Coalition. Instead, the complainant was a feminist English professor who protested that the eighteenth-century painting of a recumbent nude woman made her and her female students "uncomfortable."

This was not an isolated incident. At the University of Arizona at Tucson, feminist students physically attacked a graduate student's exhibit of photographic self-portraits. Why? The artist had photographed herself in her underwear. And at the University of Michigan Law School, feminist students who had organized a conference on "Prostitution: From Academia to Activism" removed a feminist-curated art
exhibition held in conjunction with the conference. Their reason? Conference speakers had complained that a composite videotape containing interviews of working prostitutes was "pornographic" and therefore unacceptable.

What is wrong with this picture? Where have they come from -- these feminists who behave like religious conservatives, who censor works of art because they deal with sexual themes? Have not feminists long known that censorship is a dangerous weapon which, if permitted, would inevitably be turned against them? Certainly that was the irrefutable lesson of the early women's rights movement, when Margaret Sanger, Mary Ware Dennett, and other activists were arrested, charged with "obscenity," and prosecuted for distributing educational pamphlets about sex and birth control. Theirs
was a struggle for freedom of sexual expression and full gender equality, which they understood to be mutually reinforcing.

Theirs was also a lesson well understood by the second wave of feminism in the 1970s, when writers such as Germaine Greer, Betty Friedan, and Betty Dodson boldly asserted that women had the right to be free from discrimination not only in the workplace and in the classroom but in the bedroom as well. Freedom from limiting, conventional stereotypes concerning female sexuality was an essential aspect of what we then called "women's liberation.? Women should not be seen as victims in their sexual relations
with men but as equally assertive partners, just as capable of experiencing sexual pleasure.

But it is a lesson that, alas, many feminists have now forgotten. Today, an increasingly influential feminist pro-censorship movement threatens to impair the very women's rights movement it professes to serve. Led by law professor Catharine MacKinnon and writer Andrea Dworkin, this faction of the feminist movement maintains that sexually oriented expression -- not sex-segregated labour markets, sexist concepts of marriage and family, or pent-up rage -- is the pre-eminent cause of discrimination and violence against women. Their solution is seemingly simple: suppress all "pornography."

Censorship, however, is never a simple matter. First, the offence must be described. And how does one define something so infinitely variable, so deeply personal, so uniquely individualized as the image, the word, and the fantasy that cause sexual arousal? For decades, the U.S. Supreme Court has engaged in a Sisyphean struggle to craft a definition of obscenity that the lower courts can apply with some fairness and consistency. Their dilemma was best summed up in former Justice Potter Stewart's now famous statement: "I shall not today attempt further to define [obscenity]; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it."

The censorious feminists are not so modest as Justice Stewart. They have fashioned an elaborate definition of pornography that encompasses vastly more material than does the currently recognized law of obscenity. As set out in their model law (which has been considered in more than a dozen jurisdictions in the United States and overseas, and which has been substantially adopted in Canada), pornography is "the sexually explicit subordination of women through pictures and/or words The model law lists eight different criteria that attempt to illustrate their concept of "subordination," such as depictions in which "women are presented in postures or positions of sexual submission, servility, or display" or "women are presented in scenarios of degradation, humiliation, injury, torture . in a context that makes these conditions sexual." This linguistic driftnet can ensnare anything from religious imagery and documentary footage about the mass rapes in the Balkans to self-help books about women's health. Indeed, the Boston Women's Health Book Collective, publisher of the now classic book on women's health and sexuality, Our Bodies, Ourselves, actively campaigned against the MacKinnon
Dworkin model law when it was proposed in Cambridge, Massachusetts, in 1985, recognizing that the book's explicit text and pictures could be targeted as pornographic under the law.

Although the "MacDworkinite" approach to pornography has an intuitive appeal to many feminists, it is itself based on subordinating and demeaning stereotypes about women. Central to the pornophobic feminists -- and to many traditional conservatives and right-wing fundamentalists, as well -- is the notion that sex is inherently degrading to women (although not to men). Not just sexual expression but sex itself-even consensual, nonviolent sex -- is an evil from which women, like children, must be protected.

MacKinnon puts it this way: "Compare victims' reports of rape with women's reports of sex. They look a lot alike. . . .The major distinction between intercourse (normal) and rape (abnormal) is that the normal happens so often that one cannot get anyone to see anything wrong with it And from Dworkin: "Intercourse remains a means or the means of physiologically making a woman inferior." Given society's pervasive sexism, she believes, women cannot freely consent to sexual relations with men; those who do consent are, in Dworkin's words, "collaborators ... experiencing pleasure in their own
inferiority."

These ideas are hardly radical. Rather, they are a reincarnation of disempowering puritanical, Victorian notions that feminists have long tried to consign to the dustbin of history: woman as sexual victim; man as voracious satyr. The MacDworkinite approach to sexual expression is a throwback to the archaic stereotypes that formed the basis for nineteenth century laws which prohibited "vulgar" or sexually suggestive language from being used in the presence of women and girls.

In those days, women were barred from practicing law and serving as jurors lest they be exposed to such language. Such "protective" laws have historically functioned to bar women from full legal equality. Paternalism always leads to exclusion, discrimination, and the loss of freedom and autonomy. And in its most extreme form, it leads to purdah, in which women are completely shrouded from public view.

The pro-censorship feminists are not fighting alone. Although they try to distance themselves from such traditional "family-values" conservatives as Jesse Helms, Phyllis Schlafly, and Donald Wildmon, who are less interested in protecting women than in preserving male dominance, a common hatred of sexual expression and fondness for censorship unite the two camps. For example, the Indianapolis City Council adopted the MacKinnon-Dworkin model law in 1984 thanks to the hard work of former
council member Beulah Coughenour, a leader of the Indiana Stop ERA movement. (Federal courts later declared the law unconstitutional.) And when Phyllis Schlafly's Eagle Forum and Beverly LaHaye's Concerned Women for America launched their "Enough Is Enough" anti-pornography campaign, they trumpeted the words of Andrea Dworkin in promotional materials.

This mutually reinforcing relationship does a serious disservice to the fight for women's equality. It lends credibility to and strengthens the right wing and its anti-feminist, anti-choice, homophobic agenda. This is particularly damaging in light of the growing influence of the religious right in the Republican Party and the recent Republican sweep of both Congress and many state governments. If anyone doubts that the newly empowered GOP intends to forge ahead with anti-woman agendas, they need only read the party's "Contract with America" which, among other things, reintroduces the recently repealed "gag rule" forbidding government-funded family-planning clinics from even discussing abortion with their patients.

The pro-censorship feminists base their efforts on the largely unexamined assumption that ridding society of pornography would reduce sexism and violence against women. If there were any evidence that this were true, anti-censorship feminists -- myself included -- would be compelled at least to re-examine our opposition to censorship. But there is no such evidence to be found.

A causal connection between exposure to pornography and the commission of sexual violence has never been established. The National Research Council's Panel on Understanding and Preventing Violence concluded in a 1993 survey of laboratory studies that "demonstrated empirical links between pornography and sex crimes in general are weak or absent Even according to another research literature survey that former U.S. Surgeon General C. Everett Koop conducted at the behest of the staunchly anti-pornography Meese Commission, only two reliable generalizations could be made about
the impact of "degrading" sexual material on its viewers: it caused them to think that a variety of sexual practices was more common than they had previously believed, and to more accurately estimate the prevalence of varied sexual practices.

Correlational studies are similarly unsupportive of the pro-censorship cause. There are no consistent correlations between the availability of pornography in various communities, states, and countries and their rates of sexual offenses. If anything, studies suggest an inverse relationship: a greater availability of sexually explicit material seems to correlate not with higher rates of sexual violence but, rather, with higher indices of gender equality. For example, Singapore, with its tight restrictions on pornography, has experienced a much greater increase in rape rates than has Sweden, with its liberalized obscenity laws.

There is mounting evidence, however, that MacDworkinite-type laws will be used against the very people they are sup posed to protect -- namely, women. In 1992, for example, the Canadian Supreme Court incorporated the MacKinnon-Dworkin concept of pornography into Canadian obscenity law. Since that ruling, in Butler v. The Queen -- which MacKinnon enthusiastically hailed as "a stunning victory for women" -- well over half of all feminist bookstores in Canada have had materials confiscated or detained by customs. According to the Feminist Bookstore News, a Canadian publication, "The Butler decision has been used...only to seize lesbian, gay, and feminist material."

Ironically but predictably, one of the victims of Canada's new law is Andrea Dworkin herself. Two of her books, Pornography: Men Possessing Women and Women Hating, were seized, customs officials said, because they "illegally eroticized pain and bondage Like the MacKinnon-Dworkin model law, the Butler decision makes no exceptions for material that is part of a feminist critique of pornography or other feminist presentation. And this inevitably overbroad sweep is precisely why censorship is antithetical to the fight for women's rights.

The pornophobia that grips MacKinnon, Dworkin, and their followers has had further
counterproductive impacts on the fight for women's rights. Censorship factionalism within the feminist movement has led to an enormously wasteful diversion of energy from the real cause of and solutions to the ongoing problems of discrimination and violence against women. Moreover, the "porn-made-me-do-it" defense, whereby convicted rapists cite MacKinnon and Dworkin in seeking to reduce their sentences, actually impedes the aggressive enforcement of criminal laws against sexual
violence.

A return to the basic principles of women's liberation would put the feminist movement back on course. We women are entitled to freedom of expression -- to read, think, speak, sing, write, paint, dance, dream, photograph, film, and fantasize as we wish. We are also entitled to our dignity, autonomy, and equality. Fortunately, we can -- and will -- have both.


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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,281
Re: Politics of Porn [Re: ]
    #1868437 - 08/31/03 01:21 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

  Ironically but predictably, one of the victims of Canada's new law is Andrea Dworkin herself.




I remember when that happened. I gloated for a week :smile:


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OfflineClover
phenomenal woman
Registered: 07/31/03
Posts: 99
Loc: Beyond the Veil
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
Re: Politics of Porn [Re: ]
    #1870690 - 09/01/03 07:42 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Now *THAT* is good reading. Thanks for the post!

I cannot even BEGIN to comment on the above until I have had my first cup of coffee and orgasm brought about by my own fantasies.  :lol:
 


--------------------
"Those sweet excesses I do adore."



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InvisibleGabbaDj
BTH
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Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,567
Loc: By The Lake
Re: Politics of Porn [Re: wingnutx]
    #1871389 - 09/01/03 02:15 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

In Utah a while ago their was a case where a video store had an area for porn and the city tried to shut them down..

It went to court and they lost because of local laws then they challenged the local laws because of the word "obscene"...

They subpoena internet and cable TV pay per view statistics and showed that more than 50% of homes in that area subscribed to porn which meant that the majority didnt find porn to be "obscene" and the courts ruled that porn was not obscene...

Mormons are funny.


--------------------
GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG          C8.com                    http://www.beatsopjefiets.com/   


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Politics of Porn [Re: GabbaDj]
    #1872225 - 09/01/03 07:31 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I've got a good mormon joke for you...

why is it always better to take 2 mormons fishing
with you instead of just one?

if you only take one, he'll drink all your beer.

if you bring two, they'll keep each other honest.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflineEkstaza
stranger than most
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/10/03
Posts: 4,322
Loc: Around the corner
Last seen: 5 months, 4 days
Re: Politics of Porn [Re: afoaf]
    #1872279 - 09/01/03 07:49 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
I've got a good mormon joke for you...

why is it always better to take 2 mormons fishing
with you instead of just one?

if you only take one, he'll drink all your beer.

if you bring two, they'll keep each other honest.




Where I come from it's Baptists.


--------------------
YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Politics of Porn [Re: Ekstaza]
    #1872495 - 09/01/03 08:51 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

hey, it's an equal opportunity barb.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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