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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: Twista]
    #1851920 - 08/26/03 05:45 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Look, Twista, just because I beat you in arm wrestling... it doesn't mean that...


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineSpokesman
The HighPhilosopher

Registered: 08/05/03
Posts: 847
Loc: New Jersey U.S.
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1851955 - 08/26/03 05:55 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

you belive that because you were tought to belive that......look at the little guy on my avatar i belive in him, i seen him before........






oh, im sorry that was a little closed-minded of me....


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: trendal]
    #1853110 - 08/26/03 11:52 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

But when it comes down to it, belief in the electron is faith.




How do you come to that conclusion? Faith exists in the absence of evidence. Belief in God without evidence to support that belief is faith. Belief in the existence of electrons after reviewing hundreds of years of experimental evidence supporting its existence and a solid Atomic Theory which explains observations and predicts behavior with great precision isn't faith, it's a natural conclusion.

-Diploid


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: Diploid]
    #1853182 - 08/27/03 12:14 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Don't you have faith that hundreds of years of experimental evidence is real? If you have not personally conducted the experiments yourself, you are relying on the word of others. Evidence can be faked. Most of us only read about such evidence, are told about it or maybe watch programs about it.

BTW, I mostly agree with what you are saying but I always keep a smidgen of doubt and like to play "devil's advocate."


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: Autonomous]
    #1853207 - 08/27/03 12:21 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Don't you have faith that hundreds of years of experimental evidence is real?




Geez, you guys really need a logic class. Using your reasoning, EVERYTHING is faith. [sigh] I give up; I'm going back into lurk mode.

-Diploid


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: Effed]
    #1853928 - 08/27/03 04:41 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

"God" is too complex and mysterious to describe.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineSpokesman
The HighPhilosopher

Registered: 08/05/03
Posts: 847
Loc: New Jersey U.S.
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1853984 - 08/27/03 05:36 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

How would you know god is complex?? AnywayYea when looked at it, everything is faith i mean even when their is evidance. But the point is that their is hard evidance of electrons, Their is no physical recording of a superior being pulling the strings here, only evidance of mans nature to want to find one. I dont care if you see, feel, hear or taste a "god". Feelings dont compare to the evidance that their is on electrons.


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OfflineQuintessence
I am Hydrogen

Registered: 11/25/02
Posts: 791
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: Spokesman]
    #1854061 - 08/27/03 08:00 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I don't like when people say that each of us are all god. Sorry, no. That goes directly against the definition of the word. You should really be saying each of us is simply alive. Your confusing being god and being alive. Life is magical in itself.

I don't believe there is a god. I don't see why we feel the need, as humans, to have some figure watching over us, a creator. Why can't the world just exist? Why did something have to create it? And if something did create it, what created the creator?

There are many questions we can't answer. It's way too convenient to just say: Oh, that's because god did that.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: Diploid]
    #1854068 - 08/27/03 08:07 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Quote:

Don't you have faith that hundreds of years of experimental evidence is real?




Geez, you guys really need a logic class. Using your reasoning, EVERYTHING is faith. [sigh] I give up; I'm going back into lurk mode.

-Diploid




I think you are starting to get it! hehe
Everything requires faith on your part.. Holding any evidence or anything else as TRUE requires faith in that evidence or whatever else..

Everytime you use a word in our language, you have shown your faith that that word represents what you intend it to mean when others hear or read it.. Sounds pretty dumb, but it is true...

That kind of faith is pretty easy on our part, since it is something so commonly used; however, to a Chinese guy who just learned the language from a course and is in America for his first time, he's going to be a bit shaky about using it, he really doesn't have faith in what he's saying.. I don't know if this is a good example, but I sort of know what I am trying to say...

Anyways, yeah. Yeah!
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: Quintessence]
    #1854072 - 08/27/03 08:14 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

NuggetsTheShaker said:
I don't like when people say that each of us are all god. Sorry, no. That goes directly against the definition of the word. You should really be saying each of us is simply alive. Your confusing being god and being alive. Life is magical in itself.

I don't believe there is a god. I don't see why we feel the need, as humans, to have some figure watching over us, a creator. Why can't the world just exist? Why did something have to create it? And if something did create it, what created the creator?

There are many questions we can't answer. It's way too convenient to just say: Oh, that's because god did that.




It is also way too convient to say that a God didn't do that...
Just as their isn't enough cold, hard, logical evidence to show the existance of God to us, there isn't enough cold, hard, logical evidence to show that he doesn't.

We obviously lack a lot of knowledge on the subject. Why can't the world and the Universe just exist? Because when did it start existing? What existed before it existed? How can time have a starting place, because what was before the moment when time came into being (I believe time is an illusion, but still). If there is just one Universe, what is beyond it?

No answer makes any sense, it is just something that we cannot fathom at all right now. We are way too encapsulated within the System to really understand what the System is right now from an all encompassing view, or even what is beyond the system... infinity is a good answer, but we cannot understand the concept of infinity.

I don't see a possibility for a simple answer in an issue so magnificently complex and beyond our limited understanding...
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineQuintessence
I am Hydrogen

Registered: 11/25/02
Posts: 791
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1854101 - 08/27/03 09:01 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

It is also way too convient to say that a God didn't do that...




But if you believe a god created everything than you have no motivation to find the truth.

The whole God theory is so primitive. We developed the idea of a all knowing god, as a mechanism for us to help feel less vulnerable. To make us believe that there is someone caring for us, everything happens for a reason. But this is not reality. Rather, a fabrication we created to help us get through the day. We cannot accept the fact that our sole, purpose as humans, is to reproduce. To make sure our species survives another generation. We are simply just another virus, although, an inteligent one perhaps.


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OfflineRhizoid
carbon unit
Male

Registered: 01/23/00
Posts: 1,739
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 9 days, 23 hours
Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1854116 - 08/27/03 09:17 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Everytime you use a word in our language, you have shown your faith that that word represents what you intend it to mean when others hear or read it..



I thought faith was like a conviction, a sort of loyalty to a particular belief. Are you saying that faith is nothing more than a working assumption? Because when I use a word I only need a working assumption that the perceived meaning of the word will be what I intended. But I'm not always convinced of this assumption, I can hedge my bets by acting simultaneously on a conflicting assumption. If I really had faith I wouldn't do that, right?


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InvisibletrendalM
J♠
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,788
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: Diploid]
    #1854153 - 08/27/03 09:47 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I think that when it comes down to it, holding a "belief" in anything outside of your own mind requires a great deal of faith...or ignorance.

Example: I have faith that what my senses tell me is at least mostly correct.

Forgive me for playing devil's advocate here, as that's what I'm doing  :wink:

Personally, I do not believe that "faith" in God is any different than the "faith" we put in various scientific theories. Don't get me wrong here, I'm sure anyone will tell you that I am and always have been first and foremost a scientific mind. But that cannot stop me from the realization that much of what I put thought into in science cannot be directly proven by my own senses...and thus I must have some measure of faith that what I am being told is true.

Of course, there is always corroborating evidence to back up a claim  :wink:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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OfflinePyronate
Prying open mythird eye

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 100
Loc: Forever I walk among the ...
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1854788 - 08/27/03 02:24 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
I don't see a possibility for a simple answer in an issue so magnificently complex and beyond our limited understanding...




Here's a possibility related to my ramblings on time in another thread:

There are an infinite number of different 'snapshots' of the universe, each a unique variation. Each 'timeline' (such as the one I am currently following) is merely a progression through multiple closely related snapshots - the more similar two different snapshots are, the closer together they are, thus expediting travel between the two.

But there is no travel. There is no progression. There is no timeline. There is merely an infinity of possibility. What I appear to be experiencing is one possible arrangement of snapshots. There are an infinity of other possible arrangements.

Perhaps physical existence itself does not exist as we think of it; perhaps it is merely a complex interplay of information (I recommend "The Psilocybin Solution"; find it on Erowid under Online Books) within one vast consciousness - one consciousness conceiving every possible manifestation of 'reality' - and perhaps experiencing it through independent subsystems (ie, us - the conscious beings that 'inhabit' the snapshots - or, perhaps more accurately, the vast consciousness views the perspective of each frozen multidimensional 'image' of a being, with the nature of snapshot progression giving the illusion of individual consciousness).


--------------------
"It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom... keep that in mind at all times."

--Bill Hicks (RIP)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: Quintessence]
    #1855137 - 08/27/03 04:10 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

NuggetsTheShaker said:

But if you believe a god created everything than you have no motivation to find the truth.




Um, I believe that a "God" created everything, in a sense. I still have a LOT of motivation to find the truth.. It is why I keep my eyes open.

What I believe in as God is the Creator. He chose to experience himself... Think of the vast system that keeps us running.. subdivided into organs, into individual cells, into different parts of cells, into atoms, into god knows what else (not a quantam man).

I imagine that the viewpoint from these subsystems is quite different than ours.. but so much the same. There is a vast Universe inside of just ourselves, and there are billions of people here, not to mention the planet itself, the stars, the galaxies.. Quite vast and unaccounted for by us, don't you think?

All of this is just individual pieces of a One. Whether or not this One is a part of even more complex systems... I do not know.. I have absoultely no way of knowing, as of right now.

I understand what you are rallying agansit, the idea of the Christian god, and so forth.. people who are preached this idea of something, and they just accept it is true, so on and so forth... I myself think that a lot of those ideas are off base.

Then again, The Bible as it is today is probably nothing like it was originally intended... most of it is metaphors, right? Parables? People say that about Jesus' teachings, I think most of it is. I will probably never have a way of knowing what it was really meant to be, as we have had thousands of years of people who mostly didn't understand it either taking it literally, or changing parts to fit their individual needs...

I myself don't think our sole reason is to reproduce. I also don't think we are to be parasites, even though we are at times. I believe we have the potential to be whatever it is we wish to be.

If our sole reason was to reproduce, to populate, we would have constant breeding and the planet would already be dead.. If you give a human being a purpose, a task, something that he is to accomplish and he believes in it, it will be done. We have will power.

We have arts, sciences.. I think we have the possibility to seek any meaning that we want to. We basically have a blank sheet with which to do with whatever we wish. We have in this world a lot of different schools of thoughts, and every one of them seems to have some completely opposite school of thought.. I don't find this as evidence that we only have one real purpose in being here. I find this evidence that we have no purpose, or rather, the oppurtunity to pursue any purpose.

Life's more enjoyable that way, too.. I sure hate having to follow anyone else's plan if it does not correspond with my own ideas, my own free wil (unless, of course, it is a necessary trade off towards something that I want, as most of life has this... its called balance)...
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineSpokesman
The HighPhilosopher

Registered: 08/05/03
Posts: 847
Loc: New Jersey U.S.
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1855427 - 08/27/03 05:38 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

The fact of the matter is that most of us know about "God" because this country was founded by Christians. Let me remind you that the so called "creation" in the bible is not actually a creation. it is actually a "recreation" and if you know your modern science at all you'll know that the 7 steps taken in the "creation" are nothing humans couldnt do in Mars in a near future. (Global warming is a key factor). I agree with Nuggets, The whole thing sounds like just a way to explain the hallucinations early humans got when consuming hallucinagenic foods, and to maintain law and order. There are so many religions that give diffrent explinations of how we got here. Before we came to this Country the Native Americans had there beliefs, it just so happens that we were forced Christianity into our brains by the goverment in early America, thats all.


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Offlineionathan
black universe

Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 45
Loc: lost in the night
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: Spokesman]
    #1857769 - 08/28/03 04:46 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

hi i am from greece and i am an orthodox christian ok?
yes i am, because they have told me to be and if i was in india born i would be something else. i can't find god in anything exept one thing "limits".

where is this fucking black universe stop and if it does what is after that and for how long?it can't stop somewhere and it can't go for ever .....there, is where i found god, He is the only answer.

one asked a saint of our religion:"what did god do before he made the universe?"
and the saint said:"he was preparing hell for those who research widely"

limits-universe
no answer and will never be from humans
there is only the force
GOD


--------------------
When the truth is found to be lies
And all the joy within you dies....


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Offlineionathan
black universe

Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 45
Loc: lost in the night
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: ionathan]
    #1857773 - 08/28/03 04:48 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

lol


--------------------
When the truth is found to be lies
And all the joy within you dies....


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OfflineSpokesman
The HighPhilosopher

Registered: 08/05/03
Posts: 847
Loc: New Jersey U.S.
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: ionathan]
    #1859109 - 08/28/03 03:34 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Whoever God is he doesrnt want us to know the truth.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Do You Believe In God? [Re: Spokesman]
    #1859130 - 08/28/03 03:37 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Spokesman said:
Whoever God is he doesrnt want us to know the truth.




Either that, or He does, and there is no way for us to know right now, we need to evolve to a state where we would be able to actually hear, understand, and be receptive to the Truth..
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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