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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: IS BUSH THE WORST US PRESIDENT OF ALL TIME??? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1865150 - 08/30/03 07:33 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

From CNN..

Quote:

LONDON, England (CNN) -- While Tony Blair's appearance at the Hutton inquiry has put the case for war in Iraq the spotlight, U.S. President George W. Bush hasn't faced the same measure of skepticism that the British prime minister has had to contend with.

For a look at how the Hutton inquiry could reverberate in the United States, CNN Senior Political Analyst Bill Schneider joined CNN International Anchor Tony Campion in London. Following is a transcript of their conversation:

CAMPION: It's astonishing from a European and British perspective that there's been so little debate over the war in the United States. How does it feel for someone always looking at it from Washington?

SCHNEIDER: It feels very different over here (in London). In the United States there was bit of a debate over the issue of the 16 words that got into President Bush's January State of the Union speech concerning the effort by Iraq to supposedly purchase uranium from Niger in Africa.

There was bit of stir, but it didn't really amount to anything, and it more or less has gone away. A lot of people in the press say, "What ever happened to that issue?" Weapons of mass destruction simply was never, never as central to the case for war in the United States as it was here in Britain.

CAMPION: The reason we have an inquiry now here is because a top adviser to the government appears to have committed suicide. If that had happened in the United States, would there be an inquiry, would we be going down the same road?

SCHNEIDER: In the U.S. if someone had committed suicide who was involved in making this policy, then you would have a very sensational story and probably this same kind of occurrence would be happening in the United States, because that personalizes the story. And with 24-hour cable news services, they would dwell obsessively on the death, on the family and the circumstances surrounding the death.

Remember a congressman named Gary Condit who had an intern who was eventually found dead but who was missing for month after month after month? Cable news would not let go of that story because there was a death involved. Her family was paraded endlessly across the screen, they wanted to be, because they wanted to keep the story in news to find their daughter.

When there is a personality involved or death, it becomes a sensational story.

CAMPION: I guess President Bush is happy that the news isn't being discussed in his country. Blair must by contrast be disappointed that Bush's biggest ally is in trouble and the president hasn't said anything about it. Some kind of support for Tony Blair from George W. Bush, from a UK perspective, might not have been too much to ask.

SCHNEIDER: I think Bush understands that anything he says would have been misconstrued. I think he's best to stay a distance from this, because this is entirely a British procedure. It has to do with how the dossier was put together. Bush really has nothing he can say about this.

The only thing we know is that the CIA objected originally to the inclusion of the uranium mission in the British dossier and it had to be toned down. But I think anything Bush said probably would backfire, because Bush is not a popular figure in Britain. For Bush to come to Tony Blair's defense would probably create a backlash against Blair.

CAMPION: Polls show that popular support for a continued U.S. presence in Iraq is tending to fall back. Is that a separate issue from support for the war in the first place?


Blair arrives at the Royal Courts of Justice.
SCHNEIDER: It is a separate issue. Americans continue to believe in very strong majorities that the U.S. did the right thing in getting involved in Iraq. And for that matter a majority of Britons believed that too. But what is creating a problem for President Bush is the continuing deaths of Americans.

The number of deaths since the war was declared over on May 1 now surpasses the number killed in the war. That is creating a problem, because the United States is paying $1 billion a week and losing about a soldier a day, and Americans don't understand what the mission now is, so they're getting a little bit exasperated over this.

It's not the war, they still say it was the right thing to do to overthrow Saddam Hussein. It is, "What are we doing there now?"

CAMPION: Bush is said to be now considering a plan to have U.N. troops under the command of a U.S. officer. A lot of people have been saying that couldn't happen. What do you think?

SCHNEIDER: I think it could happen, but the key phrase is what you said, "under the command of a U.S. official." We are willing to allow others to shoulder the burden, but how much of responsibility, how much control they will have remains to be seen.

Will other countries be willing to participate in the burden if they don't really have any control over the situation? That's going to be a very difficult thing for them.





It is a great possbility that the British people will hang Blair up to dry for his involvement and support of Bush..
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

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OfflineClover
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Re: IS BUSH THE WORST US PRESIDENT OF ALL TIME??? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1865204 - 08/30/03 08:40 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

It is up to us to question the motives and decisions of our elected officials. It is no longer a matter of trust, but a matter of truth. The incident concerning Bush's inclusion of the supposed Nigerian uranium purchase was fully known to be speculative at best, but in order to further the cause of the war, he knew it must be included. He knew that in order to garner support of the war, he would need to cast that small seed in the minds of the public. Just like the WMD statements. Sure, 10 years down the line Saddam *may* have been a threat to us, who knows? We can only speculate at this point. However, I do not think that US decision making-policy needs to be based on speculative actions of others.

What Blair is experiencing now in respect to his actions in supporting Bush is a direct result of his seemingly blind allegiance to a full-blown war against people who had already suffered a great deal. I am not saying he was blind, but it looks to me as if that is what Britain is attempting to voice.

One can say a million times over that Iraq is better off now that Saddam is out of power, but at what cost to them and to the US? When is it enough? I am not saying that Bush blindly persued an invasion of Iraq, hell he had been planning it for damn near 10 years, but his choices left much to be desired EVEN if he felt he was doing the right thing. Let us not forget that the US actually had a hand in warranting them ANY power at all in the 80's. And NOW there is regret? Too late to turn back now I suppose.

In answer to the original post, however, I do not think Bush is the anti-christ. I truly believe he does not make decisions solely on the basis of his own merit. The problem arises when the majority of the nation perceives the president as an omnipotent being incapable of making mistakes and blindly embarks on supportive campaigns with no where-with-all to question a leader's decisions.


--------------------
"Those sweet excesses I do adore."



Edited by Clover (08/30/03 09:10 AM)


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: IS BUSH THE WORST US PRESIDENT OF ALL TIME??? [Re: Clover]
    #1865238 - 08/30/03 09:11 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Well said.


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Offlined33p
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Re: IS BUSH THE WORST US PRESIDENT OF ALL TIME??? [Re: Edame]
    #1865570 - 08/30/03 12:31 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Iv'e never understood why people seem to think bush is just some guy all alone in the white house shouting out demands at america. He works with thousands of people and advisors. Everything he says and acts on goes through scores first.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: IS BUSH THE WORST US PRESIDENT OF ALL TIME??? [Re: d33p]
    #1865648 - 08/30/03 01:03 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

^^^I agree. I don't think Bush is solely responsible for all the horrible shit his administration has done. I just think he trusts people who are inherently untrustworthy(Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, Wolfowitz, etc.).


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: IS BUSH THE WORST US PRESIDENT OF ALL TIME??? [Re: d33p]
    #1866113 - 08/30/03 04:09 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
Iv'e never understood why people seem to think bush is just some guy all alone in the white house shouting out demands at america. He works with thousands of people and advisors. Everything he says and acts on goes through scores first.




I don't seem to think that.. but, he's suspossed to be this impressive leader, right? The captain goes down with his ship. It is because the leader is the one held responsible for the actions of his crew. And, if he isn't doing a good job of it, I can't see him being such an impressive leader..
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineCornholio
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Re: IS BUSH THE WORST US PRESIDENT OF ALL TIME??? [Re: d33p]
    #1866343 - 08/30/03 05:08 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
Iv'e never understood why people seem to think bush is just some guy all alone in the white house shouting out demands at america. He works with thousands of people and advisors. Everything he says and acts on goes through scores first.


Doesn't Bush get to pick the vast majority of the people that he works with (particulary his advisors)? If he picked the wrong people, that's his fault.


--------------------


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OfflineClover
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Re: IS BUSH THE WORST US PRESIDENT OF ALL TIME??? [Re: d33p]
    #1867117 - 08/30/03 11:17 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Bush does have the power to make decisions without consulting those in his cabinet. Bush knew coming into the presidency that this was what he was going to do. Being the president means he is held accountable for his actions nevertheless - consultation of a million cabinet members or not - he has the final word.

Arguing about the invasion of Iraq now is a moot point anyway. That part is done. Now we are looking at the rebuilding - starting point of hundreds of billions of dollars of American taxpayer money.


--------------------
"Those sweet excesses I do adore."



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OfflineClover
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Re: IS BUSH THE WORST US PRESIDENT OF ALL TIME??? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1867312 - 08/31/03 12:20 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Agreed. However, he is the last and final word and he is going to be held damn well accountable for it. One million consultations with idiots or not.


--------------------
"Those sweet excesses I do adore."



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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: IS BUSH THE WORST US PRESIDENT OF ALL TIME??? [Re: Clover]
    #1867605 - 08/31/03 02:58 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, pouring billions of dollars into a reconstruction of people who hate us religiously and try killing us every chance we get... "Here, take all this money, we'll build buildings and stuff and help you all out, and then, of course, you can blow the buildings up and kill us..."

Let's find even more ways to waste millions of dollars! It is FUN! I mean, no sense stablizing our economy, paying off the debt, or eliminating poverty, we can just WASTE our money! Let's burn it up!
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineClover
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Re: IS BUSH THE WORST US PRESIDENT OF ALL TIME??? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1869195 - 08/31/03 08:15 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Let's see.....just WHAT would the US do with all those billions of dollars? Certainly we don't need it. No sense in taking care of our own when there's wealth to spread around to other countries, right?  :rolleyes:

I think there is a guilt complex associated with invading another country. Bush feels he must take care of the Iraqi people now that he has destroyed just about every resource they once had. Just where is the disbursement of funds from all the oil that the Iraqi people were promised? Using THAT revenue would just make too much sense I suppose.
In fact, I think electrical power in Bagdhad has been restored to what? Enough to burn one light bulb at half-wattage? PLEASE.   


--------------------
"Those sweet excesses I do adore."



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Offlineshakta
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Re: IS BUSH THE WORST US PRESIDENT OF ALL TIME??? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1873612 - 09/02/03 08:54 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

What a racist post by you. Equating Islamic terrorists with the Iraqi people is pretty offensive to say the least. The vast majority of them have no intentions on killing us, and saying so is just stupid.

The one thing the President has not done, that irritates me about this war is the money to rebuild the country. His father was able to get 60 billion from around the world, and Bush does not seem to be trying very hard. The new work that is starting with the UN looks promising. Russia now says they will support a US lead UN backed force in Iraq.


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OfflineCornholio
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Re: IS BUSH THE WORST US PRESIDENT OF ALL TIME??? [Re: Cornholio]
    #1883969 - 09/05/03 04:01 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Wow, this is the most responded to poll I've seen in this forum. 33 out of 51 people (2/3) think that Bush is the worst President of all time!

Like I said in a previous post, he has the usual number of supporters. But the people who don't like him REALLY don't like him!!!

Although this is "just" a shroomery poll, I'm surprised at how many people I've heard elsewhere say he our worst President ever. I hear that almost every day on the University of Texas radio station (right here in the capital of Bush's home state!)


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Offlineshakta
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Re: IS BUSH THE WORST US PRESIDENT OF ALL TIME??? [Re: Cornholio]
    #1884169 - 09/05/03 08:05 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Dude its a college radio station. That means about as much as your poll. Nada.


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Anonymous

Re: IS BUSH THE WORST US PRESIDENT OF ALL TIME??? [Re: Cornholio]
    #1884389 - 09/05/03 09:32 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

-deleted-


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: IS BUSH THE WORST US PRESIDENT OF ALL TIME??? [Re: ]
    #1884395 - 09/05/03 09:35 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Judge people by the standards of their time. He may have been a racist, but so was just about everyone else back then.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: IS BUSH THE WORST US PRESIDENT OF ALL TIME??? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1884872 - 09/05/03 11:55 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Judge people by the standards of their time. He may have been a racist, but so was just about everyone else back then.



Wise words.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Anonymous

Re: IS BUSH THE WORST US PRESIDENT OF ALL TIME??? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1884877 - 09/05/03 11:58 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: IS BUSH THE WORST US PRESIDENT OF ALL TIME??? [Re: ]
    #1884947 - 09/05/03 12:15 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Somebody bite your ass today? Or did you make a conscious decision to be a jackass?

Peoples actions, when judged by the standards of their time, often paint a much different picture than when looking back.

200 years from now I'm sure even the most "enlightened" of us will look like asses. I have no doubt they'll look back and have no trouble seeing what a racist load of crap affirmative action is.

And where did you see either silversoul or myself say it makes it better? As the human race gets older, it gets wiser. That's a strategy you'd do well to emulate.



--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineCornholio
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Re: IS BUSH THE WORST US PRESIDENT OF ALL TIME??? [Re: shakta]
    #1885480 - 09/05/03 02:52 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

shakta said:
Dude its a college radio station. That means about as much as your poll. Nada.


Are you saying people who go to college are stupid? Or the people who post in the shroomery? I'm just confused by what your statement means, maybe you can clarify.

And if you do a Google search for the worst President of all time, over 2/3 of the hits also say that George W is the worst of all time. Of course, that probablyl doesn't matter to you either. So what would matter?


--------------------


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