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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: A lot of times early in the Old Testament God said "Therefore be holy for I, the Lord am holy [Re: Deviate]
    #18566094 - 07/16/13 10:08 AM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
I mean, this is something that you can basically choose how you want to look at it. For example, it's not so much that turning away from God causes God to say "this soul turned from me, I am going to punish it now"
rather turning away from God is the same thing as turning away from happiness. Of course if you turn away from happiness youre not going to feel happiness. In that sense, it is cause and effect like drinking bleach. I guess I didn't make that clear in my analogy. A rare oversight on my part, I am normally a master when it comes to creating analogies.

Anyway, this is basically the starving man with food scenario. A very hungry man sits at a table laid out with a feast but instead of eating, he just sits there lamenting the fact that he is hungry and asking if it is his fault or God's. That is the predicament humans are in. God offers us happiness but instead we choose unhappiness and then we blame God and wish to know why he is punishing us.




Well you also oversaw that I believe in God although not what you were presenting. You jumped straight to me being a non-believer with a cold heart simply because I don't agree with your personal interpretations, which you now say were explained poorly.

Do you also apologize for those snap judgement calls?


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: A lot of times early in the Old Testament God said "Therefore be holy for I, the Lord am holy [Re: Deviate]
    #18566628 - 07/16/13 12:40 PM (10 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

viktor said:
My favourite is how holy as defined as what God does, and God causes a shitload of misery.





This is actually not true. God is pure happiness and he created us to share in his divine happiness. His desire is to give us everything that he has. However, man turned away from God and began experiencing life through the filter of duality. This is when sin, death, disease and all the other things that make man suffer came into the world.

So misery is caused by the sense of being separate from God rather than by God himself. The redeeming aspect of misery is that it causes us to be unsatisfied with our lives and seek after something more and hopefully find God. Thats how it worked for me anyway, I was such an utter failure at being happy that I decided to give up on even trying and seek God instead.

So God "punishes us" because he loves us, just like a father punishes his children. But the higher truth is that if we would simply obey God, there would never be any need to punish us and no misery.





God is pure happiness 

This is not Biblical. 1 John 4:8 makes the dogmatic assertion that "God is agapé," and this coordinates with the Qur'an ("Allah the Compassionate, the Merciful") as well as Buddhist assertions about Compassion (Karuna), which seems phenomenologically equivalent to the Greek concept of agapé. So, a large number of human beings identify Ultimate Reality with Compassion.

So God "punishes us" because he loves us, just like a father punishes his children. But the higher truth is that if we would simply obey God, there would never be any need to punish us and no misery.

I have a long-time acquaintance, whom I hesitate to call friend because he is so OCD he cannot maintain normal friendship behaviors. When his sister, a dedicated nurse, died of cancer, he was utterly confused - a man in his 50s at the time, a school teacher for 35 years, because his world-view about God was rocked. He believed things quite literally, he didn't even take the metaphysical possibility of karma into consideration, which necessarily suggests that influences follow us from before out current lifetime. This idea was rejected by the architects of the Christian religion, but that doesn't mean that the process isn't true. To dismiss rebirth/transmigration/reincarnation/metempsychosis based on doctrinal grounds means that you have not yet questioned your own doctrines, but have simply accepted them uncritically. This is not what faith means. This is belief - belief in the thoughts of others. I am not insisting that the doctrine of karma is the only operating process, or dismissing  what Christians call grace, but you have not stepped outside of a mythological world view.

Biblical language never leaves the mythic stage of religion, and if one is stuck in its usage as a literal truth, then one may also entertain images of a king on his throne in a heaven above the clouds. YHWH as depicted biblically as a king takes its place alongside the Jupiter of the Romans, taken from the Zeus of the Greeks, and which the later Catholic Romans came to call Deus (similar to Zeus, etymologically). If we think and speak of God in personal terms of meting out reward and judgement, pleasure and pain, we are also stuck in a very basic psychological state as well. Mythic thinking is where humanity was two millennia ago, and their thoughts on God reflected that. There is a point to being child-like in terms of trust and acceptance, but this is very different than attributing a childish Freudian Pleasure-Principle psychology to God. Our description of how God works is little more than a reflection of where we are at psychologically. Obvious to me is that God means Mystery if the word means anything at all.

Post-modern people cannot speak or think like pre-scientific people. We do not live in a universe that is described by myth - a flat earth in a 3-tiered reality. If my interest in God is to avoid a Hell or get into Heaven, I am stuck in a childish level of human development, including my moral development!  Being Compassionate because "God is love," and one seeks to manifest transcendental truth to the world while transforming oneself, belongs to a higher stage of human development, and one's 'belief' about God is consequently reflected by the process. One becomes more universal and a whole lot less doctrinal! I do use formula in prayer, but ultimately I do not consider God to be incarnate as a scroll (Torah), a man (Jesus), or a book (Qur'an), even if a whole lot of people have insisted on these things, and these very differences continue to be the source of much suffering. Imagine if everyone agreed that God was Compassion, and sought to manifest God on earth via Compassion. Imagine.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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