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EvilMushroom666
Heretic




Registered: 11/18/09
Posts: 10,289
Loc: Canada
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Over Supplemented Shiitake 75 Pictures
#14797602 - 07/20/11 12:37 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Here are a few pictures of some fruits from a block I over supplemented. I used hardwood fuel pellets supplemented with to much oat bran(1/2 a cup per block) and soon realized my errors. These where made when I was first starting my experiments and before I knew any better. I sterilized them at 15 PSI for 2 hours and inoculated with shiitake 75 spawn. Since I over supplemented them I let them colonize, popcorn, brown and then sit for close to three and a half months before I even thought about birthing them.
I was hoping the extended period of time in spawn bags before birthing would allow the mycelium to digest some of the excess nutrition and allow a somewhat normal first flush. I still noticed a few mutations along with smaller caps and larger/lengthier stems. I have since learned my lesson with over supplementation along with just how finicky Shiitake 75 can be. Either way I just wanted to share some beautiful pictures of Shiitake with you all:

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trout
Flyfisherman



Registered: 12/11/07
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They still look tasty. I have it get these things going for fall!!!
-------------------- I need tropical cultures, ABM, V.v....!!!! Well things don't always look as they are and things can be misread and mistaken for what they realy are so don't read too much into what I say since I might be mistaken myself. And remember I rarely ever give a definate answer.
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NSF
Eager to learn


Registered: 01/27/11
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Re: Over Supplemented Shiitake 75 Pictures [Re: trout]
#14800011 - 07/20/11 08:17 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Over supplemented you say...pfft, hardly, check this out. Here is some shiitake on grain that i completely forgot about. I decided to fruit it anyway to see just how bad things went. Well, they went ugly.
Early stages:

Full grown mutant:
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EvilMushroom666
Heretic




Registered: 11/18/09
Posts: 10,289
Loc: Canada
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Re: Over Supplemented Shiitake 75 Pictures [Re: NSF]
#14800227 - 07/20/11 08:56 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Im sure if I would have birthed them at two months they would have looked the same, here is a few pictures of an over supplemented block that I did not leave in the bag for 3 and a half months. The over supplementation was provided by 1L of Shiitake 75 grain spawn for the block below, but I have a feeling If I had left it for longer before birthing the mutations would not have been as severe:

Edited by EvilMushroom666 (07/20/11 09:08 PM)
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
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Here's another 75 block which was over supplemented. In this case, it was about 1/3 cup of oat bran per block. Not only are the non-edible stems large and a waste of biomass, but the total B.E. is drastically lower if you over supplement. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Javadog
Continuing along



Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 7,385
Loc: USA
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Re: Over Supplemented Shiitake 75 Pictures [Re: RogerRabbit]
#14801078 - 07/20/11 11:55 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Wow. Interesting. I knew of this concern, and am happy to hear some numbers.
1/2, and 1/3, are too much. Wow again...that does not seem like very much.
I finally got some bran to use.
How much, per block, is recommended?
Thanks for sharing EM!
JD
-------------------- Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes Myco-tek.org
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curry
Stranger


Registered: 01/09/11
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Re: Over Supplemented Shiitake 75 Pictures [Re: Javadog]
#14801204 - 07/21/11 12:37 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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If those first pictures you showed were over-supplemented, I'd say you need to over-supplement every time. Nice job.
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EvilMushroom666
Heretic




Registered: 11/18/09
Posts: 10,289
Loc: Canada
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Re: Over Supplemented Shiitake 75 Pictures [Re: curry]
#14802112 - 07/21/11 08:21 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Java: If I remember correctly RR says he uses 2-3 cups of bran per 20 6lb blocks that he mixes using a cement mixer daily.(Correct me if I am wrong). He suggested for my next supplemented run that I use 1/2 a cup to make 4 of my 6lb substrate blocks.
Curry: Sadly all the fruits did not look as beautiful as those pictures.
Also note the total harvest weight was 11.7 ounces or almost 3/4ths of a lb. The actual BE for this block was sitting at roughly 29.25%, worse then what I get from my pasteurized blocks on the first flush. I am getting 3/4ths of an ounce min. for my pasteurized blocks, and now that I have a few more factors dialed in I am getting 16-24 ounces per pasteurized block more consistently.
With properly supplemented blocks from what I understand you can easily achieve 100% BE on the first flush, which would work out to around 2.5lbs per block in my case.
Here are some pictures of today's harvest, and some fruits that are not all that pretty:



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Javadog
Continuing along



Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 7,385
Loc: USA
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OK. 1/8 cup per 6 lb block.
I will figure out the volume of 6 lbs of sawdust, and I am good to go.
Thanks again bro. This is good timing. I have your 75 G2Ged to a set of quarts that I will be using soon.
Take care,
JD
-------------------- Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes Myco-tek.org
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EvilMushroom666
Heretic




Registered: 11/18/09
Posts: 10,289
Loc: Canada
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Re: Over Supplemented Shiitake 75 Pictures [Re: Javadog]
#14802150 - 07/21/11 08:36 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Javadog said: OK. 1/8 cup per 6 lb block.
I will figure out the volume of 6 lbs of sawdust, and I am good to go.
Thanks again bro. This is good timing. I have your 75 G2Ged to a set of quarts that I will be using soon.
Take care,
JD
and of course
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Aleon
The Power of Our Origins



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 1,127
Loc: Everywhere
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Hey evil, do you know the % of bran in the mix by wieght? I do things by weight for higher accuracy, and i was curious what the weight % would be. I have been making 24 sup. sawdust blocks of shiitake a week for the past few weeks, using FP strain, Night velvet, and just started G2G w/ 75. I have been supplementing with %5 (dry weight) bran to my dry sawdust and inoculating with 5-10% (wet weight to dry weight) rye grain spawn. Hopefully this rate of sup. is satisfactory. I was thinking about experimenting with stamets style shiitake: 20% bran, high inoc rate, fruit from white block at 35 days (ie. brown out of the bag), etc... I think it is worth experimenting with different grow styles, what works for 1 may or may not work for another. Also, is this supplementation issue just for shiitake 75 or do most shiitake get mutants from excessive (more than %5 bran) supplementation?
-------------------- Mushroom medicines available at: www.swordandshieldwellness.com
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EvilMushroom666
Heretic




Registered: 11/18/09
Posts: 10,289
Loc: Canada
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Re: Over Supplemented Shiitake 75 Pictures [Re: Aleon]
#14802363 - 07/21/11 09:46 AM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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I honestly could not tell you the weight I use at this time, and seeing as the density of different types of bran will all be slightly different, I do not see an accurate way to give you that information.
RR will hopefully chime in on your ratio's , but as far as I can tell from my speculation that should be fine.
Experimentation is never a bad thing, that is for sure. I have talked to a few Canadian shiitake growers and every single one has a different method, style and way of going about things.
So far out of those three strains 75 is VERY VERY VERY finicky with over supplementation, even as far as adding grain spawn goes. Any more then 200ML of grain spawn in my pasteurized blocks tends to result in mutants. When spawning to 75 I am very light handed.
As far as the FP and NV go they are not as finicky, will allow a bit more supplementation before throwing blobs and mutants, BUT past a certain point they will start throwing mutant fruits, blobs, and perform poorly. Less is more it seems as far as supplementation goes.
Every strain you play with will have its own unique characteristics as far as acceptable levels of supplementation, fruit size, smell, texture, etc etc. Finding out those variables is half the fun;-)
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
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Try 1/8 to 1/4 cup of bran for each large substrate block and then adjust from there based on your experiences at fruiting time. It's all going to depend on the quality of the sawdust you're using and how much natural sugar is in the wood, based on species and season of harvest. It's all fluid, and needs to change with the seasons.
Growing shiitake truly is half art and half technique/science. You have to be able to bend and flex as required, based on the parameters at your exact location. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Javadog
Continuing along



Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 7,385
Loc: USA
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Re: Over Supplemented Shiitake 75 Pictures [Re: RogerRabbit]
#14805193 - 07/21/11 07:57 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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...added to the log.
Thank you both.
JD
-------------------- Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes Myco-tek.org
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FractalXplora
Grainiack




Registered: 02/11/06
Posts: 2,494
Loc: UK
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Re: Over Supplemented Shiitake 75 Pictures [Re: Javadog]
#18560327 - 07/15/13 02:45 AM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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so if im using 1/8 to 1/4 cup bran per 6lb block, how much gypsum should be going in there?
Cant seem to find an answer on a rather large search!
IM guessing its reduced significantly as well, 50 -100g? per bag?
Cheers Frac.
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OICU812
NC Tree Farm owner


Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 1,064
Loc: Foothills of NC
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: Over Supplemented Shiitake 75 Pictures [Re: FractalXplora]
#18560640 - 07/15/13 05:17 AM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Log in to view attachment
Quote:
FractalXplora said: so if im using 1/8 to 1/4 cup bran per 6lb block, how much gypsum should be going in there?
Cant seem to find an answer on a rather large search!
IM guessing its reduced significantly as well, 50 -100g? per bag?
Cheers Frac.
My moisture calculator spreadsheet might help. I have attached a copy for you to use.
-------------------- -------------- "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" --Benjamin Franklin "Those who give up liberty for security won't have, or deserve, either.". . . Benjamin Franklin ----> Read: The Fight of our Lives - Defeating the Ideological War Against the West - by Victor Davis Hanson
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FractalXplora
Grainiack




Registered: 02/11/06
Posts: 2,494
Loc: UK
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Re: Over Supplemented Shiitake 75 Pictures [Re: OICU812]
#18560788 - 07/15/13 06:37 AM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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excellent cheers OICU812, i will have a look at that now, thanks for posting it up
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