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Simplepowa
In Pursuit of Knowledge


Registered: 03/06/09
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Alcohol in Ontario has a high societal cost
#18559350 - 07/14/13 09:11 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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Lower alcohol prices in Ontario and easier access in corner stores won’t eliminate high costs of disease, abuse and personal tragedies.
By: Dr. Edward Xie Published on Thu Jul 11 2013
Is alcohol too expensive? It may seem that way when we’re lining up at our local LCBO. Spend a Friday night in the emergency department with me, though, and the question takes on a whole new meaning.
I have been in practice for barely a year, but it takes only one patient mowed down by a drunk driver to make the answer clear. On another night, a man nearly dies after falling down a flight of stairs. His wife cries while trying to decide whether to look after him or go to a shelter because he might become violent again. And then there is the long line of frail patients with swollen abdomens waiting for their liver transplant.
Yes, alcohol is too expensive. Problems with alcohol in Ontario exhaust strained government budgets, generate societal costs and degrade the health of our community. Yet some believe that lower prices and greater access is the solution.
A recent study commissioned by the Ontario Convenience Store Association predicts lower prices for consumers and higher government revenues if alcohol sales were expanded to corner stores. At face value, this seems like a win-win, but the analysis ignores a critical economic consideration.
Increased consumption of alcohol is linked with a higher incidence of traffic accidents, liver disease, heart disease, violence, child abuse and suicide. This increased disease burden reduces our productivity. While we might save a couple of dollars picking up our favourite wine, the societal costs and personal tragedies will more than make up for it.
The Canadian Public Health Association examined this issue in a 2011 report, stating that “alcohol is the second leading risk factor for death, disease and disability.” It goes on to note that in 2002 the costs of alcohol consumption in Canada included an estimated $7.1 billion in lost productivity, $3.3 billion in health-care expenses and $3.1 billion in law enforcement spending.
Selling in convenience stores may mean lower prices for buyers but a study by the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health found that privatized alcohol sales would result in an extra $800 million to $1.6 billion in social costs: “these results clearly demonstrate that alcohol retail monopoly has a key role in preventing alcohol-related harm, and therefore should be retained.”
We don’t need to rely on abstract projections to know what will happen. Privatization of alcohol sales in Alberta since the 1980s has been linked with a substantial increase in suicides and criminal offences. Further west, a new report from the Centre for Addictions Research in British Columbia shows that a 10 per cent increase in liquor stores between 2002 and 2009 was associated with a 2 per cent rise in deaths due to alcohol.
Is it really worth losing our young people to car accidents to pay a little less for booze?
Don’t get me wrong: alcohol plays an important role in social life (and national identity). In moderate amounts it can even have some beneficial health effects. However, we should not rely on an industry lobby or political ideology to inform our decisions.
Some politicians want to make this about choice. People do not choose to become addicted to alcohol, or develop permanent liver failure, or miss work, or become victims of a drunk driver.
The paramedics, nurses, police officers and social workers I work with all understand these problems. Economists and researchers get it, too. Nevertheless, when it comes to policy-making, the real costs and the real suffering don’t get much attention.
If we’re going to make this about dollars and cents, let’s look at the whole picture. If politicians want to treat us “like adults,” we should have an intelligent, adult discussion, not just a simple-minded “cheaper is better” philosophy. If we can handle our liquor, we can handle the facts about who should sell it.
Dr. Edward Xie is an emergency physician at University Health Network in Toronto.
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2013/07/11/alcohol_in_ontario_has_a_high_societal_cost.html
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Carl Sagan - "Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people." --- Robert Pirsig - "When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion." --- Brian Cox - "[One] problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it. The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense."
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Freedreamer
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Re: Alcohol in Ontario has a high societal cost [Re: Simplepowa]
#18559514 - 07/14/13 09:48 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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"Is it really worth losing our young people to car accidents to pay a little less for booze"
Yes it is worth it. Alcohol is already expensive enough- not to mention that we are already being literally taxed three times over. Sorry mate, but it ain't my fault if a stupid kid died when driving under the influence or if the 60 year-old civil servant died of a liver disease after a shitty, meaningless life shifting papers around. How about this: let's handle our shit and take fucking responsibility for our own asses. And yes, you are responsible if you become a drunk. It's YOUR fault, get it? And no one should pay for your stupidity. Following the ban hammer, we ought to have banned cars, knives and plastic bags by now.
-------------------- "This life is a hospital in which every patient is possessed by the desire of changing his bed. One would prefer to suffer near the fire, and another is certain he would get well if he were by the window." - Charles Baudelaire
Edited by Freedreamer (07/15/13 02:12 AM)
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Heffy
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Re: Alcohol in Ontario has a high societal cost [Re: Simplepowa]
#18560674 - 07/15/13 05:35 AM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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Apparently the biggest factor in drunk driving is the price of alcohol.
-------------------- I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund
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hidenseek1
Its got all the dinks.

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Re: Alcohol in Ontario has a high societal cost [Re: Heffy]
#18560950 - 07/15/13 07:41 AM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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i dont think it should be sold in convenience stores, people trying to abstain from alcohol will see it wherever they go, also it give underage buyers like a million more places to try to buy it, in highschool i drank way to much, the fact that to try to get it i had to sometimes move from liquor store to liquor store to try to get it probably cut down my drinking, as there is usually only a few within walking distance of eachother
im all for lowering prices where its already sold though
-------------------- You can drink at 7 A.M., because the Beastie Boys fought for that right -------------------------------------------------------------------------- pons asinorum -------------------------------------------------------------------------- lsd and the vietnam war changed music forever
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Lord_McLovin
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Re: Alcohol in Ontario has a high societal cost [Re: Heffy] 1
#18560993 - 07/15/13 08:07 AM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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No, but one could argue that a lower price of alcohol leads to more alcohol consumption in general. This in turn could lead to more drunk driving.
Pricing of drugs is a very difficult topic as too often correlation is mistaken for causality. It can also lead to the development of a black market if one overdoes it (that would mean more moonshine in this case). When politicians make drugs more expensive, very often this is presented as a result of a public uproar or a change in the perceived harm of a drug in the eyes of the public. More often than not, however, they're just hungry for the money. Nonetheless, in some cases, e.g. in the case of tobacco in Europe, an increase in price correlated with a decrease in overall consumption - and an increase in black market products.
Of course, if something is more expensive one is less tempted to buy it. However, in the case of drugs, things are not that straightforward. For example in the case of alcohol, the consumer might just buy a cheaper whiskey or in the case of tobacco, (s)he might start to roll the cigarettes by hand instead of buying them prerolled as it's cheaper. In those cases, an increase in pricing just lead to inconvenience. The actual problem, however, is the group of users with a problematic pattern of consumption. Most of them are poor and in bad social situations and an increase in price can translate to the money missing elsewhere as the person may not adapt his/her consumption to the new prices. If they are given the chance, they will buy black market products or spent all his/her money on the drug and/or even turn to crime if the price is very high.
This is almost always missing in the debate and can lead to very bad decisions (like drug prohibition).
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Freedreamer
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Re: Alcohol in Ontario has a high societal cost [Re: Lord_McLovin]
#18562292 - 07/15/13 02:39 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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Good post
-------------------- "This life is a hospital in which every patient is possessed by the desire of changing his bed. One would prefer to suffer near the fire, and another is certain he would get well if he were by the window." - Charles Baudelaire
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halo
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Re: Alcohol in Ontario has a high societal cost [Re: Freedreamer]
#18562537 - 07/15/13 03:25 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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As an American, and our money is about equal now, I was floored when I was in Canada a few weeks ago and saw the price of alcohol.
Talkin bout $15+ for a PINT of bacardi rum, and like $35-40$ for a case of fucking Labatt Blue Light!?!!?!?
I couldn't believe it. Here in Missouri I can get an 18 pack of PBR for 7.99. And a case of light beer, bud light, will only run you maybe $15-20 top.
Because of this, an entire market of more expensive but higher quality beers known as microbrews has flourished in the United States. For me an expensive but good 6-pack of beers will be around 6-8 dollars. If I'm paying that much for beer I know it's going to fucking taste good. I just can't imagine paying that much for shitty light beer that won't get me drunk.
Good luck Canada!
-------------------- All drugs should be legal
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Heffy
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Re: Alcohol in Ontario has a high societal cost [Re: Lord_McLovin]
#18562583 - 07/15/13 03:33 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Of course, if something is more expensive one is less tempted to buy it. However, in the case of drugs, things are not that straightforward. For example in the case of alcohol, the consumer might just buy a cheaper whiskey or in the case of tobacco, (s)he might start to roll the cigarettes by hand instead of buying them prerolled as it's cheaper. In those cases, an increase in pricing just lead to inconvenience. The actual problem, however, is the group of users with a problematic pattern of consumption. Most of them are poor and in bad social situations and an increase in price can translate to the money missing elsewhere as the person may not adapt his/her consumption to the new prices. If they are given the chance, they will buy black market products or spent all his/her money on the drug and/or even turn to crime if the price is very high.
This is almost always missing in the debate and can lead to very bad decisions (like drug prohibition).
The most predictable by-product of higher alcohol prices is increased poverty among the poor and marginalized. Well.... that and more revenue for government hole-digging/filling programs.
It's worth noting that in Ontario a 6 pack of the shittiest beer you can buy is almost $8, and good beer is $13+ per six.
Alcohol in NYS costs almost exactly half as much, which is why there is a huge community of people in Ontario who buy most of their alcohol across the border, and then try to dodge as much duty as possible.
Even if there weren't other reasons why legislating a higher price for alcohol is stupid, I have a problem with the government price fixing certain products based on their ethical ideas of what products are good/bad, and which products I am capable of consuming responsibly.
-------------------- I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund
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Vitalux
Stranger from the next universe



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Re: Alcohol in Ontario has a high societal cost [Re: Simplepowa]
#18565473 - 07/16/13 06:13 AM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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This is why in my humble opinion that magic mushrooms should be put in breakfast cereals.
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hidenseek1
Its got all the dinks.

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Re: Alcohol in Ontario has a high societal cost [Re: Vitalux]
#18565544 - 07/16/13 06:52 AM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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frosted psliocybes "THEY'RE GREAT!"
Quote:
Well.... that and more revenue for government hole-digging/filling programs.
I never thought of where the tax money for alcohol goes, might be interesting to look into
Quote:
which is why there is a huge community of people in Ontario who buy most of their alcohol across the border, and then try to dodge as much duty as possible.
there are some other ways though, the duty free store, brewing your own, buying in Quebec instead of America
Quote:
Even if there weren't other reasons why legislating a higher price for alcohol is stupid, I have a problem with the government price fixing certain products based on their ethical ideas of what products are good/bad, and which products I am capable of consuming responsibly.
good/bad thing is probably a cover, they tax addictive stuff/drugs because people will buy them no matter what
i think it bugs drinkers more than non-drinkers anyways, when i was drinking every day, i hated the fact they had monopoly on the booze, now that i dont drink every day , i couldnt care less
-------------------- You can drink at 7 A.M., because the Beastie Boys fought for that right -------------------------------------------------------------------------- pons asinorum -------------------------------------------------------------------------- lsd and the vietnam war changed music forever
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HybridprX
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Re: Alcohol in Ontario has a high societal cost [Re: hidenseek1]
#18565747 - 07/16/13 08:09 AM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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Alcohol is the gateway drug those goverment scientists talk about.
A friend lost her mother to a drunk driver not to long ago.... Not something I like to see when people crumple onto the floor when getting the call.
If someone drinks and drives, I'll run their arms and legs over with their own car long before they leave the parked position.
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