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InvisibleEdame
gone

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
Which president told the biggest whoppers?
    #1855226 - 08/27/03 04:37 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I thought this was quite amusing, here's a snippet from the full article:

Quote:



The Mendacity Index
Which president told the biggest whoppers?


To come up with our Mendacity Index, we asked a nominating committee* of noted journalists and pundits to pick the most serious fibs, deceptions, and untruths spoken by each of the four most recent presidents. We selected the top six for each commander-in-chief, then presented the list to a panel of judges** with longtime experience in Washington. Panel members were instructed to rate each deception on a scale of 1 (least serious) to 5 (most serious). Then we averaged the scores for each deception and for each president. We believe their validity rests somewhere between the Periodic Table and the U.S. News & World Report college rankings.




--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,211
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Which president told the biggest whoppers? [Re: Edame]
    #1855286 - 08/27/03 04:58 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

It is amusing but actually worthless. Different people would rate those in different ways.

That panel, for the most part leans pretty far in a leftward direction.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
Re: Which president told the biggest whoppers? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1855594 - 08/27/03 06:32 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Actually, the panel has a very strong rightward bias!

Don't you just love statements like that which aren't backed up?  :wink: 


--------------------


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,211
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Which president told the biggest whoppers? [Re: Cornholio]
    #1855611 - 08/27/03 06:37 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Actually, I'm familiar with most of the panelists.

Do a google on each and you'll see.

I was unable to find out about Mann though as it's a very common name.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinemonoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 3,095
Loc: Jacksonville,FL
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: Which president told the biggest whoppers? [Re: Cornholio]
    #1856151 - 08/27/03 09:21 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Where's Dick?


--------------------
People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


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InvisibleXochitl
synchronicitycircuit
Registered: 07/15/03
Posts: 1,241
Loc: the brainforest
Re: Which president told the biggest whoppers? [Re: monoamine]
    #1856544 - 08/27/03 10:55 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

The Johnson administration and their fabricated Gulf of Tonkin incident was probably one of the worst lies in later 20th century American history; it was a defining event that led to the deaths of over three million human beings.

Reagan/Bush and the Iran-Contragate scandal was some serious dishonesty and hypocrisy. Smuggling cocaine, trading arms, befriending death squads all the while training/funding future terrorists and sponsoring the "Just Say No" drug war campaign...wow.

(trust no politican)


--------------------
As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.

-Donald Rumsfeld 2/2/02 Pentagon


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InvisibleDoctorJ
Stranger
 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Re: Which president told the biggest whoppers? [Re: Xochitl]
    #1862897 - 08/29/03 03:44 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

promising to lie should be part of the innaugural oath, since most presidents do it anyway. Here's some whoppers that stick out in my mind:

"I do not recall..."

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman"

"Read my lips: no new taxes"

"I am not a crook... I earned every cent"

"I support ending the war in Vietnam"

"Intelligence indicates that Iraqi officials have tried to purchase enriched uranium from Nigeria"


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: Which president told the biggest whoppers? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1862907 - 08/29/03 03:47 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Your last one is not a lie and you know it. He said British intelligence says Saddam has tried to buy it from Nigeria. This is a fact. British intelligence did say that, and they still stand by it.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,211
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Which president told the biggest whoppers? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1862910 - 08/29/03 03:47 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

You forgot the all-time very best.....

I smoked, but I did not inhale!


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,211
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Which president told the biggest whoppers? [Re: shakta]
    #1862915 - 08/29/03 03:49 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

shakta said:
Your last one is not a lie and you know it. He said British intelligence says Saddam has tried to buy it from Nigeria. This is a fact. British intelligence did say that, and they still stand by it.



You know it, I know it, they know it. It doesn't matter to them.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleDoctorJ
Stranger
 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Re: Which president told the biggest whoppers? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1862926 - 08/29/03 03:54 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

"Your last one is not a lie and you know it. He said British intelligence says Saddam has tried to buy it from Nigeria. This is a fact. British intelligence did say that, and they still stand by it. "

OK, you're right.

Isn't it great when you can slip one of those little disclaimers in there and be completely free of accountability?

'Its not the presidents fault, its his sources...  yeah, thats it.'

hows that for plausible deniability?

I could just see this happening in everyday situations.

Me: 'How much pressure do these tires take?'
Mechanic: 'Well, some british guy told me 50 lbs.'
POW!!! (the sound of popping tires)
Me: 'Hey!!!  That was really bad advice!'
Mecanic: 'Don't blame me.  Its that rat bastard British guy's fault.'
(mechanic snickers and charges me for a new tire)

:smile: :smile: :smile:


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: Which president told the biggest whoppers? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1862951 - 08/29/03 04:02 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Spin it however you want. The fact remains it was not a lie.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
Stranger
 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Re: Which president told the biggest whoppers? [Re: shakta]
    #1862972 - 08/29/03 04:08 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

oh, its already been spun, baby

:smile: :smile: :smile:


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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InvisibleEdame
gone

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
Re: Which president told the biggest whoppers? [Re: shakta]
    #1863145 - 08/29/03 05:14 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Lying indicates a deliberate deception. If Bush knew that this 'intelligence' was highly suspect, but used it anyway to push his case for invasion then that would make it a lie in my book.


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: Which president told the biggest whoppers? [Re: Edame]
    #1863149 - 08/29/03 05:15 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I have not seen any evidence that shows he knew it was 'highly suspect'. Your government still claims it is true.


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InvisibleEdame
gone

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
Re: Which president told the biggest whoppers? [Re: shakta]
    #1863169 - 08/29/03 05:23 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I never said there was any evidence, I said if he knew then that would make it a lie. There are articles all over the web that show that the US government was informed on numerous occasions that the Niger thing had no merit. I think that the British 'intelligence' is irrelevant. I can say I have intelligence that shows you are a murderer, but we both know that's horseshit unless I can actually prove it. Would you go around telling everyone that the moon is made of cheese, if I told you so? Are we to believe that Bush addressed the population of the United States and made claims that he hadn't even bothered to verify properly?


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


Edited by Edame (08/29/03 05:24 PM)


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: Which president told the biggest whoppers? [Re: Edame]
    #1863182 - 08/29/03 05:29 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

You are overreacting to this to try to make the President look bad, just like the liberals here did. It failed here in the US, and will fail in this discussion. The British data most likely came from the French, who don't want America to have the details for some reason. I wonder why?


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InvisibleEdame
gone

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
Re: Which president told the biggest whoppers? [Re: shakta]
    #1863241 - 08/29/03 05:56 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I don't need to try to make him look bad, he's doing an amazing job all by himself. The truth is that nobody has any real idea of where that intelligence came from, or what it was, until they actually back up their claim with proof.

We're still left with a situation where the people around the President (and possibly him too) knew that US intelligence couldn't prove that the Niger claim was valid, and yet still went on record with it, taking the British at their word without knowing where their info might have come from? Thousands of people are dead because of decisions that our leaders made. If it turns out that they have been deliberately deceiving people in order to acheive their goals, or if they have even been so stupid as to let themselves be tricked into invading, then we have every right to question their words and actions. This isn't about who got plo-chops* in the Whitehouse, it's life and death stuff for a whole country.

* say it in an Ah-nold accent


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,770
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 1 month, 5 days
Re: Which president told the biggest whoppers? [Re: shakta]
    #1863261 - 08/29/03 06:07 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Is there any proof that the intelligence originally came from the french??


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: Which president told the biggest whoppers? [Re: GazzBut]
    #1863356 - 08/29/03 06:38 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

No, there is not. It just came from a government that did not want it passed on to the Americans. The British have claimed all along that it is very reliable and damning apparently. At any rate this was one point among many in the speech. Unfortunately it seems it is the only part of the speach liberals do remember. The like to ignore the rest of it so they can claim things like, we were promised it would be easy, or that Saddam posed an imminent threat. :smile:


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