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Offlineorison
mcfluffysugarnuts


Registered: 01/19/09
Posts: 5,481
Last seen: 13 hours, 28 minutes
Re: Synthetic Drug 'Bath Salts' Trumps Methamphetamine In Addictiveness, Study Finds [Re: Moonshoe]
    #18550682 - 07/12/13 08:58 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Drugs that cannot be responsibly used :

Meth
Crack
IV heroin
MDPV
Inhalants (gas, computer duster, glue)
Krokodil
Datura
Cigarettes/tobacco (except for strictly ceremonial purposes)


:notsureif:


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InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
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Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
Re: Synthetic Drug 'Bath Salts' Trumps Methamphetamine In Addictiveness, Study Finds [Re: orison]
    #18550698 - 07/12/13 09:03 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Don't get squirrelly with me


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Everything I post is fiction.

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Invisiblegreencrush420
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Registered: 04/14/13
Posts: 1,014
Loc: U.S.A Flag
Re: Synthetic Drug 'Bath Salts' Trumps Methamphetamine In Addictiveness, Study Finds [Re: Moonshoe]
    #18550739 - 07/12/13 09:15 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

My list would probably be:
Meth
Crack
Cocaine
Heroin, Oxy, etc. (basically all derivatives of the poppy plant)
MDPV
Inhalants (gas, computer duster, glue, etc.)
Krokodil
Sisa (Just learned about this a while back. Quite the epidemic in Greece.)
Basically, I stick to weed, and what I consider to be entheogens (such as shrooms, mescaline, etc.). The most profound experience I've ever had was on DXM though. Balk at it if you wish, I still consider it useful.
I left tobacco off because I have never had a problem with it. I can smoke a pack of bugler and then not smoke for months, no problem, and I also like to smoke hookah from time to time. This is just a personal list of drugs I will never do, I'm not judging anyone else for their choice of drugs.

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InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
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Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
Re: Synthetic Drug 'Bath Salts' Trumps Methamphetamine In Addictiveness, Study Finds [Re: greencrush420]
    #18550793 - 07/12/13 09:35 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Never heard of Sida before ! Searching it now. I Wikipediad it but I'm not clear on how Sisa is different from meth


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Everything I post is fiction.

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Invisiblegreencrush420
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/14/13
Posts: 1,014
Loc: U.S.A Flag
Re: Synthetic Drug 'Bath Salts' Trumps Methamphetamine In Addictiveness, Study Finds [Re: Moonshoe]
    #18550826 - 07/12/13 09:46 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

It is supposed to be a preparation of some sort of meth cut with battery acid, but they don't really know yet. I think the life expectancy of addicts is a few months. Literally eats them away, as you would expect, considering they're smoking battery acid.

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Invisiblegreencrush420
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Registered: 04/14/13
Posts: 1,014
Loc: U.S.A Flag
Re: Synthetic Drug 'Bath Salts' Trumps Methamphetamine In Addictiveness, Study Finds [Re: greencrush420]
    #18550836 - 07/12/13 09:48 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Vice did a two art documentary on it a while back. It was posted here on SNS.

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InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
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Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
Re: Synthetic Drug 'Bath Salts' Trumps Methamphetamine In Addictiveness, Study Finds [Re: greencrush420]
    #18550847 - 07/12/13 09:52 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Cool I'm going to watch that tonight. Sounds like Sisa is to meth what krokodil is to heroin


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Everything I post is fiction.

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OfflineKonyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
Loc: Planet Piss
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
Re: Synthetic Drug 'Bath Salts' Trumps Methamphetamine In Addictiveness, Study Finds [Re: Lord_McLovin]
    #18551502 - 07/13/13 01:59 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Lord_McLovin said:
I wonder if the rats crave the MDPV in a nice environment, not locked alone in a dark cage.
Probably not.




thats actually a study they did with heroin and your hypothesis is more then accurate

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OfflineKonyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
Loc: Planet Piss
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
Re: Synthetic Drug 'Bath Salts' Trumps Methamphetamine In Addictiveness, Study Finds [Re: orison]
    #18551512 - 07/13/13 02:03 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

orison319 said:
Quote:

Drugs that cannot be responsibly used :

Meth
Crack
IV heroin
MDPV
Inhalants (gas, computer duster, glue)
Krokodil
Datura
Cigarettes/tobacco (except for strictly ceremonial purposes)


:notsureif:




That's bullshit you could do any drug you want at a safe lab tested level, cigarettes just prove your case wrong as 1 drop of pure nicotine would drop an elephant. Plus I'd take a cocaine concoction over a cup of coffee any day.

Also you guys say weed is safe but a lot of the shit your smoking is probably covered in unnatural pesticides/fertilizer.:rolleyes:

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OfflineBoston666
Stranger

Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 6
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Re: Synthetic Drug 'Bath Salts' Trumps Methamphetamine In Addictiveness, Study Finds [Re: Konyap]
    #18551522 - 07/13/13 02:06 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

No matter ho hard the DEA try to ban any certain chemical substance they will make another similar one that will get you just as high if not higher. I also think Synthetics are disgusting and Id rather jack off than use a scientifically made piece of shit drug.

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OfflineKonyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
Loc: Planet Piss
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
Re: Synthetic Drug 'Bath Salts' Trumps Methamphetamine In Addictiveness, Study Finds [Re: Boston666]
    #18551535 - 07/13/13 02:08 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

The thing is though the law is YOU CAN NOT SELL A DRUG THAT MIMICS ANOTHER SCHEDULED DRUG OR LABEL IT AS THAT DRUG.

So they have to sell them as bath salts or incense or such.

Just capping it to remind anyone.

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OfflineMrMunchies
Food Critic
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Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 654
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: Synthetic Drug 'Bath Salts' Trumps Methamphetamine In Addictiveness, Study Finds [Re: Lord_McLovin]
    #18551687 - 07/13/13 03:57 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Lord_McLovin said:
I wonder if the rats crave the MDPV in a nice environment, not locked alone in a dark cage.
Probably not.




Of course if you lock something in a small environment, close it in, make it FEEL as though it has NOTHING, then you give it SOMETHING, a little glimpse, OF COURSE it will go after it again and again.

Is this what has happened society?


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OfflineKonyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
Loc: Planet Piss
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
Re: Synthetic Drug 'Bath Salts' Trumps Methamphetamine In Addictiveness, Study Finds [Re: MrMunchies]
    #18551698 - 07/13/13 04:00 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Of course it is people didn't start getting massively addicted to exotic drugs until there was a drug war to make everything a hot commodity.

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OfflineApostle
Philanthropist
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Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 31,501
Loc: FL Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: Synthetic Drug 'Bath Salts' Trumps Methamphetamine In Addictiveness, Study Finds [Re: Boston666]
    #18552263 - 07/13/13 09:45 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Boston666 said:
. I also think Synthetics are disgusting and Id rather jack off than use a scientifically made piece of shit drug.



:ilold:


yes, dam those scientists and their high levels of purity.:rolleyes:


jacking off on bathsalts is the best.

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InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
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Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
Re: Synthetic Drug 'Bath Salts' Trumps Methamphetamine In Addictiveness, Study Finds [Re: Konyap]
    #18552376 - 07/13/13 10:35 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

"you guys say weed is safe but a lot of the shit your smoking is probably covered in unnatural pesticides/fertilizer."

Use a vaporizer people! Its worth it.

The thing about the rat not using drugs in a cage is totally true, they would use the levelrless if they had a stimulating environment to explore.

However, the point is to compare how they press the lever compared to other drugs. So if you have two rats , both in a dark cage alone (not sure the actual conditions in the experiment but lets say) and one rat's level administers meth and another heroin and another MDPV, all the rats will use the levers, but they will use them at different rates of intensity, and the rat who uses it with the most intensity probably is being given the most addictive drug.

So yeah the rats would use the lever less, maybe even not at all, if they had a different environment, but that doesnt change the finding of the study that MDPV is more addictive to rats who do press the lever than other drugs.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.

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InvisibleCidneyIndole
www.shroomery.OG
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 4,762
Loc: Love's Secret Domain
Re: Synthetic Drug 'Bath Salts' Trumps Methamphetamine In Addictiveness, Study Finds [Re: dokunai]
    #18552439 - 07/13/13 10:52 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

dokunai said:
I've been through stim withdrawal for coke, meth, amps, etc.  A few days of feeling tired or like shit?  LOL.  When I quit my insane alprazolam habit, it took me almost a year to get over it.  I'm sorry... stim addicts are fucking pussies.  Try a year of Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome.  Try being wracked with seizures or feeling like you can't relax or fall asleep without electric shocks running through your limbs for a year.  Sorry, but your buddy's stim cravings aren't quite in the same class IMO.  I've quite coke and quit meth and quit prescribed amphetamines.  Those will never, ever compare to the misery of quitting benzos or opiates.







Brilliant response.


PS-- That was sarcastic as fuck.


Seems like eating benzos like candy has fried your ability to comprehend what you read and make relevant, intelligent comments.


I'm well aware that benzo withdrawal is among the most difficult and dangerous for any drug. No one is disputing that. However, as moonshoe correctly points out, that's not what we're talking about here at all. We're talking about a drug being so reinforcing when you dose, that you want to chronically re-dose until you run out. And that tends to happen far more with strong stimulants that have a huge effect on dopamine, than any other drugs. (I think the shorter half-life of most stimulants is a factor in this as well.)  I'm an opiate addict-- I know damn well that the withdrawal from opiates is, in many ways more brutal than any stimulant withdrawal. As far as symptoms go, hardcore stimulant withdrawal is a considerably more "mild" phenomenon.


However, your post is still very retardedly assumptive in that regard. You assume that MDPV is just like the stimulants you mentioned. And as this study's results indicated-- MDPV may be at least "10 times worse." I too have been through the very mild withdrawal that crack has to offer. It is a walk in the park compared to MDPV. Both in terms of stopping yourself from re-dosing, and in terms of the aftermath.


That "friend" I mentioned before? He still doesn't feel quite 100% "normal" from his last MDPV experience-- in the fall of 2011.  Stopping a 2+ month long MDPV binge is not like stopping a couple days on coke, or a week on meth. Even after you start sleeping again, the paranoid hallucinations and delusional thinking can persist for days or weeks. The anhedonia and the depression-- the complete lack of pleasure from any normal source of pleasure-- food, sex, etc, can last for months as  your brain tries to re-regulate itself. Even after looking back, years later, with much shame and embarrassment over your behavior during that period, and what you came to... thinking of how your family had started to fear for your safety... watched you waste away to a skeleton... all afraid for your safety and mourning you as if you were already dead.... and you knew just how right they were.... you still crave a fucking hit.


Back to benzos, and the original topic-- benzos aren't even all that immediately reinforcing in the same way that heavy stimulants are. Not even as much as opiates are (which are IMHO still less immediately reinforcing.)  If you chronically re-dose benzos, knowing that they're very addictive and the withdrawal is dangerous, that indicates a possible severe issue with self-control or impulsive actions. And if you can't control that, MDPV would chew you up and spit you out.


As far as I know (and I could be wrong about this) but benzo withdrawal isn't nearly as bad if you taper off very slowly and carefully. It's still not fun. IMHO opiates are worse (in terms of the difficulty of stepping down your dose, and how you feel.)  Then again, I've only tapered from benzos once-- and I did it very slowly, and carefully. :shrug:


So come back when you can binge on PV for a couple months straight and not lose your shit and kill yourself. Then I'll listen to your claims of how much it's "pussy shit."


Also next time, please do think a little more carefully, and try to comprehend just a tiny bit harder before you jump into a thread and say "nuh uh, that's not true" thinking you're on topic, when you're talking about something completely different. I was careful to mention addictive and "habit forming" aka habitual aka "reinforcing" aka chronic re-dosing, aka compulsive, .... which is only one half of addiction-- the half we were talking about here (though as I stated above, you were somehow assumptively, astoundingly wrong about the other half, as well, merely less so)


--------------------
------------------------
I am me. We are You.

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OfflineJCSuperstar
Shroomy Cacti Lover
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Registered: 12/19/12
Posts: 191
Loc: The Sunshine State Flag
Last seen: 7 months, 20 days
Re: Synthetic Drug 'Bath Salts' Trumps Methamphetamine In Addictiveness, Study Finds [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #18552661 - 07/13/13 11:50 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote: "The infamous drug bath salts – a.k.a. the cannibal zombie drug that rose to notoriety last summer after the “cannibal attack” 

This disinformation still pisses me off:mad:


--------------------
Cube Master

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Offlinejebre
your parents
Male


Registered: 08/11/11
Posts: 691
Loc: wisconsin
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
Re: Synthetic Drug 'Bath Salts' Trumps Methamphetamine In Addictiveness, Study Finds [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #18552814 - 07/13/13 12:33 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

CidneyIndole said:
Quote:

dokunai said:
Quote:

A new study finds that the active ingredient in the drug trumps even the most addictive substances we know, namely methamphetamine.




I do not agree with this assesment.  Sure, stims can be very psychologically addictive, but so can food, gambling, etc.  Most addictive substances?  Try alcohol, nicotine, opiates, benzos...

Also, considering the design of this experiment, it doesn't sound like the rats may have had any alternative to pressing a lever.  I bet any of us would also press a lever thousands of times to get a bit of drugs when locked in a tiny cage with a lever and a water bottle.







You do have a point about the parameters of the  study and living conditions. However, MDPV is actually the most addictive, habitual drug I've ever seen in my life. I don't have much experience with meth, but it absolutely rivals and probably beats crack.

Funny, reading about the rats working harder, I was picturing the end of a binge.


If you've ever seen the end of a really bad crack binge, users will often comb the floors for a little bit, searching for rock they might have dropped, occasionally mistakenly smoking a piece of plaster from the wall, etc...  This usually doesn't go on for too long before they realize it's futile and give up.

The end of a long MDPV binge can get worse. If you're really bad with the pv (and / or have self control issues) you will spend considerably longer looking for MDPV residue. I've seen someone search for literally hours for something dropped / misplaced. I've seen someone wash down all their smoking equipment with acetone and evaporate, in the hopes of just one more hit.


It is devilishly, fiendishly moreish. I don't believe for a second that this study is false propaganda (though it may be used as such.)  Shit lights up your dopamine like nothing else-- especially with "harder" ROAs, and it can be very difficult to stop while you still have material left. Because this stuff, just a few years ago was very much legal, and way cheaper than drugs like meth, we have seen what happens when people have massive supplies of this stuff. And some people will stay up literally for weeks on end, no problem.


I know one dude whose word I trust, who alleges his last bad run with MDPV (around 40 grams) lasted over 2 full months, with very little sleep, very little food, and near constant use. Shit is no joke.



Quote:

CidneyIndole said:
Quote:

dokunai said:
Quote:

A new study finds that the active ingredient in the drug trumps even the most addictive substances we know, namely methamphetamine.




I do not agree with this assesment.  Sure, stims can be very psychologically addictive, but so can food, gambling, etc.  Most addictive substances?  Try alcohol, nicotine, opiates, benzos...

Also, considering the design of this experiment, it doesn't sound like the rats may have had any alternative to pressing a lever.  I bet any of us would also press a lever thousands of times to get a bit of drugs when locked in a tiny cage with a lever and a water bottle.







You do have a point about the parameters of the  study and living conditions. However, MDPV is actually the most addictive, habitual drug I've ever seen in my life. I don't have much experience with meth, but it absolutely rivals and probably beats crack.

Funny, reading about the rats working harder, I was picturing the end of a binge.


If you've ever seen the end of a really bad crack binge, users will often comb the floors for a little bit, searching for rock they might have dropped, occasionally mistakenly smoking a piece of plaster from the wall, etc...  This usually doesn't go on for too long before they realize it's futile and give up.

The end of a long MDPV binge can get worse. If you're really bad with the pv (and / or have self control issues) you will spend considerably longer looking for MDPV residue. I've seen someone search for literally hours for something dropped / misplaced. I've seen someone wash down all their smoking equipment with acetone and evaporate, in the hopes of just one more hit.


It is devilishly, fiendishly moreish. I don't believe for a second that this study is false propaganda (though it may be used as such.)  Shit lights up your dopamine like nothing else-- especially with "harder" ROAs, and it can be very difficult to stop while you still have material left. Because this stuff, just a few years ago was very much legal, and way cheaper than drugs like meth, we have seen what happens when people have massive supplies of this stuff. And some people will stay up literally for weeks on end, no problem.


I know one dude whose word I trust, who alleges his last bad run with MDPV (around 40 grams) lasted over 2 full months, with very little sleep, very little food, and near constant use. Shit is no joke.




i agree dopamine agonists and reuptake inhibitors  are extremely addicting since first use.
the withdrawl is less of an incentive than with drugs such as opioids and alcohol
harder to have the energy to search for drugs when you used all the energy your body had in the last two months  from speed,  haven't eat or slept


when i did amphetamines i would start and not stop until i was out. then sleep and eat for 2-5 days generally    then return to amphetamines


so has anyone measured the difference in effective  dopamine reuptake relative to amount of peripheral effects and dosage      compared to parallel statistics for methamphetamine?

drug addiction is a multifaceted phenomena for the human organism, clinical and animal testing should include information on these facets  and come with a clear definition of "addiction" when conducting these experiments.

cravings, withdrawal, tolerence, availability, usual method of ingestion, time to cross blood brain barrier,  dosage, lethal dosage    etc all play a roll


--------------------
fnord

i appreciated the garden before, but i understood it now

psychedelic benefits poll ---->
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16182497 
[quote]AllGreyThumbs said:
Damn it, they really have to stop calling things LSD that aren't really LSD.  That goes for dealers, police, and the media.  Stop it, stop it, stop it.  It makes the real LSD look bad.[/quote]

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OfflineApostle
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Registered: 12/12/09
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Re: Synthetic Drug 'Bath Salts' Trumps Methamphetamine In Addictiveness, Study Finds [Re: jebre]
    #18553086 - 07/13/13 01:45 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

having been addicted to various substances, i'd say all of them are equally taxing on my "sanity" over the long term but amphetamines and dissociatives are most taxing short term(on my mental stability).

THAT BEING SAID, due to the progression of my addiction as well as external factors like social and legal pressure, i have become increasingly "guilty" and "not normal" feeling no matter what substance i use. My point?  ALL drugs now make me experience a sort of "withdrawl from non-sobriety", to speak abstractly.

IMO,withdrawal(physical or otherwise), in the LITERAL sense of the word, is most intense- anxiety wise -with benzos and alcohol.

PAIN wise; with opiates(no questions asked) but at the same time the axiety in my op8 w/d is nearly as bad as with the formerly mentioned two substances.

Dissociatives are very addicting and luckily i cant give my two cents on any detectable withdrawl that i've felt. I mentioned that they were taxing on my "sanity" but really that's just a label which holds no ground in my reality, once i sober up i return to baseline as with most drugs.

The reason i tend to rant against amphetamines is not because i don't like them, it's because they can literally CAUSE psychosis lasting longer than the drug.

I am aware that this is ALSO the case with psychedelics but i have had enough face melting moments to know that psychs and i get along just fine. I don't mean to group together so many drugs when i say psychedelics. ALL drugs are psychedelic to me if i take the word literally but in this case i mean Mush, deemsters and other NON-addicting spaceships.

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Invisiblegreencrush420
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/14/13
Posts: 1,014
Loc: U.S.A Flag
Re: Synthetic Drug 'Bath Salts' Trumps Methamphetamine In Addictiveness, Study Finds [Re: Konyap]
    #18553265 - 07/13/13 02:39 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

aiyobro said:
Quote:

orison319 said:
Quote:

Drugs that cannot be responsibly used :

Meth
Crack
IV heroin
MDPV
Inhalants (gas, computer duster, glue)
Krokodil
Datura
Cigarettes/tobacco (except for strictly ceremonial purposes)


:notsureif:




That's bullshit you could do any drug you want at a safe lab tested level, cigarettes just prove your case wrong as 1 drop of pure nicotine would drop an elephant. Plus I'd take a cocaine concoction over a cup of coffee any day.

Also you guys say weed is safe but a lot of the shit your smoking is probably covered in unnatural pesticides/fertilizer.:rolleyes:



I grow my own Cannabis, and mix my own organic soil using Sphagnum peat moss, humus, lime, rock dust, perlite, and an all organic tomato fertilizer. Works like a charm.  :bigblunt: Even if I didn't do this, your point is moot. Weed is safer than Cocaine, Crack, Heroin, Meth, etc., this is a fact.

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