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StygianKnight
A Mushroom

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 2,717
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Re: Hypothesis on Albert Hofmann's Famous 1943 "Bicycle Day" [Re: Dark_Star]
#18510967 - 07/04/13 09:25 AM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dark_Star said: The fact that despite popular belief, LSD is not transdermally active.
People have pointed out in this very thread that it is, through personal experience. Now maybe it's actually entering micro-cuts or needs a certain skin alkalinity, etc but it is possible (clearly not the surest method). unless Dr. Nichols can verify the intactness of Hoffman's skin on april 16th I propose he hasn't looked at all the options.
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Dark_Star said:As well as the the well-earned reputation Swiss chemists have for being extremely meticulous. Coming into contact with a substance, particularly a new one, that's being synthed isn't something that they do.
Multiple renowned physicists died due to accidental exposure during the Manhattan project. Accidents happen, people aren't machines.
I do sometimes see this in analytical sciences where people are so accustom to breaking things down into finite logical problems that they apply it to everything. Swiss scientists don't make mistakes. Hoffman was a swiss scientist. Thus Hoffman doesn't make mistakes. Is perfectly logical if the real world was a computer program. In the same way as, 'I tried it and it doesn't work, thus it never worked' might work for math but not real world science.
Now if he had left it at "Maybe it wasn't LSD" I wouldn't have as much issue but continuing on to say that it *must* otherwise be a repeat of a random experience, a mystical one at that, from his childhood is just amusing and bad science.
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 3 months, 3 days
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Re: Hypothesis on Albert Hofmann's Famous 1943 "Bicycle Day" [Re: StygianKnight]
#18510989 - 07/04/13 09:29 AM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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I don't like Nichols...
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clemens
Lover



Registered: 10/22/06
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Re: Hypothesis on Albert Hofmann's Famous 1943 "Bicycle Day" [Re: s240779]
#18511064 - 07/04/13 09:51 AM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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I don't see understand all the bashing of science here.
It is just a hypothesis and honestly if it is true makes the story of how LSD was discovered even more miraculous. He discovers a new chemical that has never been before tested on humans, drops a small amount on his skin and on a completely unrelated note has a strong mystical experience. It is like time decided we were ready to re-realize the potential of psychedelic drugs in the west. I mean what are the odds, had the mystical experience never happen think of how much different we would be today. The discovery of LSD's psychedelic effects was as revolutionary as the atomic bomb. Maybe it happen for a reason and that is why he just had a mystical experience when dabbling with it in the LAB. (pure speculation at this point)
but a much more interesting story and an even more inspiring one for psychonauts like me.
--------------------
 Take it easy dude, but take it!
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flickedbic
Sojourner



Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 4,676
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Re: Hypothesis on Albert Hofmann's Famous 1943 "Bicycle Day" [Re: clemens]
#18511738 - 07/04/13 12:28 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Sometimes I think Hofmann was just saying that it was an accident to not get heat brought upon him; and really he took a nibble and had to share. 
He's a smart dude; he probably knew ergot had intoxicating effects after his preliminary research.
Quote:
It is widely hypothesized that barley infected with ergot alkaloids was used as part of the entheogenic drink known as Kykeon that was consumed during the Eleusinian Mysteries of ancient Greece
http://entheology.com/plants/claviceps-purpurea-ergot-alkaloid/
Plain ergot poisoning has hallucinations as a side-effect.
-------------------- Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order: 1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine 2)Amanita (urine drank twice) 3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose) 4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators) 5)Salvia (need to try quid)
All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental. Blessing.
Edited by flickedbic (07/04/13 12:31 PM)
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 3 months, 3 days
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Re: Hypothesis on Albert Hofmann's Famous 1943 "Bicycle Day" [Re: flickedbic]
#18511837 - 07/04/13 01:01 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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The hypothesis is that the kykeon was not toxic: Mixing the Kykeon Anew
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my3rdeye



Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 4,354
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
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Re: Hypothesis on Albert Hofmann's Famous 1943 "Bicycle Day" [Re: StygianKnight] 1
#18522975 - 07/06/13 11:35 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
StygianKnight said:
The author needs to stop drinking the conspiracy koolaid and learn about Occam's bloody razor.
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I've made LSD in my lab on many occasions for research purposes, possibly in not so meticulous a manner as Albert Hofmann.
Well there's your problem!
You need to read between the lines. The one person allowed to work with LSD in the USA is only going to say so much. He has clearly tried to replicate Hoffmans experience and failed. Sorry I trust the Doctor working with LSD more than some guy on a message board. When someone who works in a less than sterile lab with LSD says there has never been an accidental exposure in his lab I believe him. What is the alternative? All these through the skin stories have always sounded like urban legends. Hendrix? The guy who turned into an orange? You guys need to stop holding on to acid myths as gospel. It doesnt matter if you accept the mystical shit or not. Fact is Hoffman had a two hour trip and thats not acid. Maybe he was exposed to something else, I don't know. He didnt absorb LSD thru his finger tip though.
----- "How long did chinacat say his thumbprint experience last?"
If he said more than 12 hours he lied. He lied about alot of shit. Like you can tell how strong LSD is based on crystal colour. I hate that people have taken that shit and built it up. Fingerprints of fluff with the family, LOL. The whole thing is a load of BS.
------ "Lsd can in fact absorb through the skin.. I have seen it, I have been involved in it.. It works.."
This the point where i wonder if you had a placebo effect and are sincere or you just lied. See Nick Sands example, no matter how much LSD you are talking about he is talking about much more.
------- "Interesting. I know people who have had the same thing happen and tripped."
See above. I know lots of people who claim same thing, they are wrong.
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StygianKnight
A Mushroom

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 2,717
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Re: Hypothesis on Albert Hofmann's Famous 1943 "Bicycle Day" [Re: my3rdeye]
#18524835 - 07/07/13 12:48 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
my3rdeye said: You need to read between the lines.
Um, perhaps you should read between the lines... or let me clarify... People here in this very thread have either experienced or watched someone else experience LSD through touch. This isn't some sort of myth we read in a book once. It happens. IMO what's up for debate isn't whether someone can be accidentally dosed by LSD but the exact mechanism. To repeat myself, perhaps it is not transdermal afterall but is transferred through abrasions or perhaps even accidental trace transfer to mucous membranes, like nose or lips, etc. But it does happen. The amount of mind bending to try to get around this is pretty funny though. (You watched someone trip after accidental exposure to LSD, Bullshit man! It was aliens sending signals to their implant! Don't you know anything about science!)
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my3rdeye said:Fact is Hoffman had a two hour trip and thats not acid.
Well to be more specific Hoffman had two hours of visuals, he never said how long the whole trip lasted, and frankly it's a moot point since we are discussing a different route of administration and an unknown dose, it can't be directly compared to an oral dose. To think that all routes and sizes must last 12 hours or it's not LSD is just poor logic. (Pot brownies last longer than smoking, thus it's not really pot.) I've certainly experienced different lengths of visuals and overall trip from different doses.
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 3 months, 3 days
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Re: Hypothesis on Albert Hofmann's Famous 1943 "Bicycle Day" [Re: StygianKnight]
#18525063 - 07/07/13 01:32 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
StygianKnight said: Well to be more specific Hoffman had two hours of visuals, he never said how long the whole trip lasted
Exactly.
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clemens
Lover



Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 4,303
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Re: Hypothesis on Albert Hofmann's Famous 1943 "Bicycle Day" [Re: s240779]
#18527527 - 07/07/13 09:39 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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I want someone to come in here and confirm that put real LSD on their skin and experience psychedelic effects. I have never experienced LSD in pure form and put it on my skin to see if i tripped and if this scientist says it doesn't work like that then what the hell happen to hofmann.
if he ingested another substance it would of be something related to LSD/LSA i would think and would not last just 2 hours.
or he had a psychedelic experience without drugs which happens, that i can vouch for.
--------------------
 Take it easy dude, but take it!
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