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viktor
psychotechnician



Registered: 11/03/10
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My problem with Buddhism
#18514899 - 07/05/13 07:28 AM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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no matter how much I study it and no matter how much I talk about it and no matter how much I live it
I can never shake the thought that I've completely and utterly missed the point
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: My problem with Buddhism [Re: viktor]
#18514911 - 07/05/13 07:33 AM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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The "point" imo is a subjective one. We all take life as a challenge or a problem to be solved. That seems to be the nature of the beast for us.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Abuse
end of the line

Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 6,039
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Re: My problem with Buddhism [Re: viktor]
#18515055 - 07/05/13 08:23 AM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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As long as you're comfortable where you're at currently spiritually, you should just be grateful that it's beneficial to you and you're gaining something from it.
--------------------
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Sse
Saṃsāra

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Re: My problem with Buddhism [Re: viktor]
#18515267 - 07/05/13 09:41 AM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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taming a wild elephant
clear awareness of exactly what is happening as it happens.
tranquility, peace in every moment.
transformation
gradual process of ever-increasing awareness into the inner workings of reality.
chip away the wall of illusion that blocks the living light of reality.
to come together with ourselves and with all beings.
the intention and capacity to relieve and transform suffering and lighten sorrows.
to smile to sorrows
climb over the mountain to be able to look over the whole situation, not bound by one side or the other. true equanimity
love without discrimination.
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
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moi
Stranger


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Re: My problem with Buddhism [Re: viktor]
#18515707 - 07/05/13 11:37 AM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
viktor said: no matter how much I study it and no matter how much I talk about it and no matter how much I live it
I can never shake the thought that I've completely and utterly missed the point
i started believing that the answer is "shut up, sit down, breathe. keep doing it. be serious with it. find everything out yourself." ... i'm talking about going for it with 100% dedication.
everything else just seems like mental masturbation. but who can get really serious with this? most people just do their daily hour of meditation and then do mental masturbation or forget about spirituality. i feel like that's just not serious enough.
Edited by moi (07/05/13 11:41 AM)
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vladtepes
Radical


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Re: My problem with Buddhism [Re: moi]
#18515934 - 07/05/13 12:18 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Listen to Alan Watts.
-------------------- “If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on.” ― Terence McKenna My Trade list
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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
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Re: My problem with Buddhism [Re: viktor]
#18515944 - 07/05/13 12:20 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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I don't think there's a point to miss. The words that we read in books and talk about are different than what the actual experience is. Subjective as others have said
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



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Re: My problem with Buddhism [Re: viktor]
#18516300 - 07/05/13 01:43 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
viktor said: no matter how much I study it and no matter how much I talk about it and no matter how much I live it
I can never shake the thought that I've completely and utterly missed the point
"I Know Exactly What You Mean."
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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elasticaltiger
Like Tigers in Coitus




Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 8,042
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Re: My problem with Buddhism [Re: viktor]
#18518538 - 07/05/13 11:23 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
viktor said: no matter how much I study it and no matter how much I talk about it and no matter how much I live it
I can never shake the thought that I've completely and utterly missed the point
What is the point you think you have missed?
I guess it's subjective, what you think the point is.
As a person who has spent a lot of time with monks, I can honestly say that if I asked them what 'the point' is they would shake their heads at me... thinking in terms of 'missing or making the point' is to miss the point...
Don't worry such much. If you believe the 8 fold path to be true. Live it. Think it. Speak it. Act it. You don't have to do it all now. If you want to try something else the 8 fold path will always be waiting for you to come back to if you desire. (ah but isn't it freedom from desire that we seek???)
No point.
"Mu."
-------------------- First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger! No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit. "The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates) Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson EZEKIEL 23:20
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Deviate
newbie
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Re: My problem with Buddhism [Re: moi]
#18519420 - 07/06/13 08:14 AM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
moi said:
Quote:
viktor said: no matter how much I study it and no matter how much I talk about it and no matter how much I live it
I can never shake the thought that I've completely and utterly missed the point
i started believing that the answer is "shut up, sit down, breathe. keep doing it. be serious with it. find everything out yourself." ... i'm talking about going for it with 100% dedication.
everything else just seems like mental masturbation. but who can get really serious with this? most people just do their daily hour of meditation and then do mental masturbation or forget about spirituality. i feel like that's just not serious enough.
You need to add prayers and devotion to God. Pure Buddhism is only going to bring about enlightenment swiftly for those who are very adept at meditation. If you cannot remain in meditation continuously, then the quickest way to make progress is to practice devotion to God. This will help develop some of the love that is lacking in Buddhism (love that will be present in the higher states of consciousness but is absent in the beginning levels of meditation). It will also do many other things, such as protect you from the forces that lure you back into mental masturbation.
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
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Re: My problem with Buddhism [Re: viktor]
#18519432 - 07/06/13 08:16 AM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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The point is this...
Its all how you look at it. Perspective is everything.
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: My problem with Buddhism [Re: viktor]
#18522489 - 07/06/13 09:42 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
viktor said: no matter how much I study it and no matter how much I talk about it and no matter how much I live it
I can never shake the thought that I've completely and utterly missed the point
maybe buddhism is working if you never even suspect that you might have the wrong answer.... then it's dogma all the way, thoughts, senses, perceptions - it's all fixed.
edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naïve_realism
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
Edited by CosmicJoke (07/06/13 09:49 PM)
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viktor
psychotechnician



Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 4,293
Loc: New Zealand
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Quote:
elasticaltiger said: What is the point you think you have missed?
Well if I knew what that was I wouldn't be missing it.
Unless there's a point to your question that I missed? (lol)
I have a suspicion that Buddhism is meant to be lived and not talked about, so as soon as you think about it you have missed the point.
Talking about it is great fun, though, so perhaps that's the point...?
I'm not worried about it, just amused by the paradoxical nature of the mystery.
Maybe a little bit worried.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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crkhd
☾☼☽


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Posts: 2,401
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Re: My problem with Buddhism [Re: moi]
#18522795 - 07/06/13 10:41 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
moi said:
Quote:
viktor said: no matter how much I study it and no matter how much I talk about it and no matter how much I live it
I can never shake the thought that I've completely and utterly missed the point
i started believing that the answer is "shut up, sit down, breathe. keep doing it. be serious with it. find everything out yourself." ... i'm talking about going for it with 100% dedication.
everything else just seems like mental masturbation. but who can get really serious with this? most people just do their daily hour of meditation and then do mental masturbation or forget about spirituality. i feel like that's just not serious enough.
You're right because it damn well fucking isn't serious enough. This life is not a laugh or a joke and those who take it for a laugh and a joke will find themselves soon enough as an eternal laugh and a joke.
However your karma will decide entirely whether you see through impermanence and realise "hold on... I'm eating food that doesn't even intrinsically exist, dafuq" or if you carry on like a frog in a simmering pot of water.
If you get into the state of Samadhi, *all* your worries and questions will instantly disappear. The second you enter this state and see your true nature and what is going on, these questions will find answers. The answers IME come in the same way as "thirst" meets "water"; each existential question is a "thirst" and when you are in Samadhi you can scroll through the Infinite at your own leisure and look at all the answers. There is nothing more I can say about this.
You will have to give it 100%, ever got 100% on a test? If not, start there! If you can nail 100% on a test with ease then you have the MINDSET to enter. If you try to get 100% on the test and end up with 50% that means you need to try exactly 2x harder, no more, no less.
100% is a fuckload more than you think... Through the lens of Samsara, 80% is 100% but in reality 100% is 100%. It's not about some fictitious "intelligence" which you are "born with"... the idea of "intelligence" is laughably ridiculous to a person in the path of Wu Wei because when you are 1000 steps ahead of everything else effortlessly falling in the direction of manifesting your desired reality in exactly the same physical way you feel gravity, then you can take eternity to process anything or you can slow time down to a halt and process it in your own damn eternity.
Everything you experience when you smoke DMT is available as YOURS. To keep. But you must first grow the DM-Tree, the neural network that supports this insight and channels it. Without the tree... it is impossible.
So let me say again, it's not about intelligence... It's about seeing the clear reality in front of you and not missing a single subtle detail. A. Single. Subtle. Detail. Not one. Not even the ones you do not know you do not know that you do knot knowknotnknown... 100% of the details, 100% of the answers. 99% of the details... 0% of the answers.
Good luck. It's fucking brutal. But you know that voice within you that says, it's gotta be done?
It's gotta be done.
-------------------- "Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern." "THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker "If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific
Edited by crkhd (07/06/13 10:55 PM)
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viktor
psychotechnician



Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 4,293
Loc: New Zealand
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: My problem with Buddhism [Re: crkhd]
#18522951 - 07/06/13 11:29 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Top post. I may be too afraid to fully agree with it. I accept any pain that must come my way as a result.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: My problem with Buddhism [Re: viktor]
#18522966 - 07/06/13 11:33 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
viktor said:
Top post. I may be too afraid to fully agree with it. I accept any pain that must come my way as a result.
it sounded a little manic to me not much like any buddhist i know
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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crkhd
☾☼☽


Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 2,401
Loc: A human sphere enfolding ...
Last seen: 8 months, 7 days
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Re: My problem with Buddhism [Re: viktor]
#18522974 - 07/06/13 11:35 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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^ I am not Buddhist.
I AM.
Keep your labels to yourself. You suffer. I do not. Right now I have a broken limb and many traumas. They do not touch me. I bet your traumas damn well touch "you" 
Don't tell happy people how to Be.
That fear of the pain, is fear of doing wrong. It's a real fear and it only matters *until* that point. Beyond that point, again, all fear dissolves. This is why you need to cultivate 100% MINDSET. With 100% MINDSET there is not even 1% room for error.
When in doubt or fear of pain perhaps go 200% and let the resulting Yin current knock you down a few pegs after you get exultant and boastful and at that point, stay at 100%. If you grasp the subtlest of the subtlest then you can nudge the fine balance very gently until it rests on that perfect central silent axis of symmetry. The longer you stay there, the longer you learn.
I am not joking when I say that a minute of this is like the entire lifetime in Samsara before it... even greater.
-------------------- "Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern." "THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker "If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: My problem with Buddhism [Re: crkhd]
#18523000 - 07/06/13 11:40 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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No thank you.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: My problem with Buddhism [Re: CosmicJoke]
#18523356 - 07/07/13 01:44 AM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Sounds just like that good evil christian fundmental stuff I was spoon fed as a kid. 
I let those folk do their thing and I continue to do mine.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: My problem with Buddhism [Re: Icelander]
#18523519 - 07/07/13 03:13 AM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Sounds just like that good evil christian fundmental stuff I was spoon fed as a kid. 
I let those folk do their thing and I continue to do mine.
Yup, had that weird random intensity of a militia leader to me.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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