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zpores
MycoAngelo~



Registered: 11/30/10
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Radical PH change with wood ash. Pasteurization
#18503977 - 07/02/13 07:56 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Have any of you tried to pasteurize straw with just wood ash? According to http://www.alohaculturebank.com/mushroom-growing.pdf BE% was better with lime than steam, and ash better than both. They were using Oyster for the test.
Of course I will try this myself but curious if anyone else has tested lime/ash vs steam, and what did/didn't you like about it, not just BE%.
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Versicolor
♖♘♗♔♕♗♘♖



Registered: 05/04/11
Posts: 2,268
Loc:
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Re: Radical PH change with wood ash. Pasteurization [Re: zpores]
#18504764 - 07/02/13 10:57 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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I have never heard of this method. It would make sense though, seeing as wood ash, like lime, has a really high PH. I should give this a go.
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OmSource


Registered: 03/09/11
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Re: Radical PH change with wood ash. Pasteurization [Re: Versicolor]
#18504869 - 07/02/13 11:27 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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yup I was thinking about trying this as well. I'm still working out the best way to dispose of the incredibly alkaline water after the soak, same with a lime water soak (aloha didn't mention in the article anything about proper disposal) any thoughts?
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Ripjohnnyc
ninja

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Re: Radical PH change with wood ash. Pasteurization [Re: OmSource]
#18504927 - 07/02/13 11:40 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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im just going to use it as a herbicide to get rid of my grass, i hate mowing when its 30+ c out.
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OmSource


Registered: 03/09/11
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Re: Radical PH change with wood ash. Pasteurization [Re: Ripjohnnyc]
#18505073 - 07/03/13 12:30 AM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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I could be getting my facts wrong but I thought that the crazy high ph water would eventually make it into the ground water, or the local waterways if there are any, throwing things out of balance.
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Radical PH change with wood ash. Pasteurization [Re: OmSource]
#18505787 - 07/03/13 06:34 AM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Have any of you tried to pasteurize straw with just wood ash?
Yes, and it works. The problem I had was killing the grass when I dumped out the water. This is why I switched back to steam. Wood ash can also be used in place of lime to raise pH for casing layers and such. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Ripjohnnyc
ninja

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Re: Radical PH change with wood ash. Pasteurization [Re: OmSource]
#18507692 - 07/03/13 04:48 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
OmSource said: I could be getting my facts wrong but I thought that the crazy high ph water would eventually make it into the ground water, or the local waterways if there are any, throwing things out of balance.
I live out on a farm, and I am sure there are worst things going into the ground from the commercial farmers and pot ash mines near me. If i lived in the city it would be a different story.
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OmSource


Registered: 03/09/11
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Re: Radical PH change with wood ash. Pasteurization [Re: Ripjohnnyc]
#18507828 - 07/03/13 05:29 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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for sure! I wonder if it is the case that it ends up in the water ways or if it simply kills the vegetation where it's dumped? The same would have to go for lime water as well. There was talk of re-adjusting the PH by lowering it with something but I couldn't find the thread again...it was awhile ago
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alohamed
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Re: Radical PH change with wood ash. Pasteurization [Re: zpores]
#18510915 - 07/04/13 09:09 AM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hi, this is John from Aloha Medicinals. I was the one that ran the trials with the wood ashes pasteurization method as part of our diversified ag program for some of the African countries. Actually to my surprise, the wood ashes method worked better than any of the other methods we had tried, with better BE than lime or soap or hot water or steam. The fruit bodies were better shaped and better shelf life, in short they were perfect. The only real difference was they fruited a couple days later than the other methods, around 22 days for the oyster strains we were running (4 strains) while the lime and steam ones fruited at 18 or 19 days.
A few people have expressed concern about disposing of the high pH lime water. I guess I was not too clear in my instructions. If you do it right there is no residual water. What you do is calculate the amount of water you need. If you use 100 lbs of straw for example, it is going to hydrate at about 70% moisture, so the soaked weight of 100 lbs dry straw will be 330 lbs, or 230 lbs water. All you need to do is add a lime solution of 230 lbs, or about 27 gallons. The water for pasteurization then become the water for hydration. All the water is absorbed into the straw and there is no residual water to dispose of. In actual practice I like to add about 10 - 20% extra just to make it easy, I don't like to measure and it is not critical. Say you have some lime solution left over though, there is no need to dispose of it, just replenish and use again and again. It is not toxic like the hot water soak method, you can continue to use it, just add more ea time as needed. The main concern though is to use the correct type of lime. It has to be Hydrated lime, Calcium Hydroxide, and make sure it is not the high magnesium type. It should be 90%+ of Calcium Hydroxide. It is readily available, you just need to read the bag and make sure you are not getting some high Mag lime, or some Calcium Carbonate lime, THEY WILL NOT WORK for this method. The same works for soap. I hope this helps, if anyone has any questions, feel free to email me at john@alohamedicinals.com Make sure to check out the new growing supplies and cultures website, we decided to start offering the top end equipment that we use at Aloha, http://alohaculturebank.com
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zpores
MycoAngelo~



Registered: 11/30/10
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Re: Radical PH change with wood ash. Pasteurization [Re: alohamed]
#18511331 - 07/04/13 11:03 AM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Awesome info, no waste or reusable. As I've never done this in practice it would be great to know rough amounts of lime/ash needed to create a ph spike of this magnitude, if the amounts are low, this could be the perfect way to pasteurize. Cheap, easy and no waste.
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drake89
Mushroom Magnate



Registered: 06/26/11
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Re: Radical PH change with wood ash. Pasteurization [Re: alohamed]
#18512551 - 07/04/13 04:18 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
alohamed said: Hi, this is John from Aloha Medicinals. I was the one that ran the trials with the wood ashes pasteurization method as part of our diversified ag program for some of the African countries. Actually to my surprise, the wood ashes method worked better than any of the other methods we had tried, with better BE than lime or soap or hot water or steam. The fruit bodies were better shaped and better shelf life, in short they were perfect. The only real difference was they fruited a couple days later than the other methods, around 22 days for the oyster strains we were running (4 strains) while the lime and steam ones fruited at 18 or 19 days.
A few people have expressed concern about disposing of the high pH lime water. I guess I was not too clear in my instructions. If you do it right there is no residual water. What you do is calculate the amount of water you need. If you use 100 lbs of straw for example, it is going to hydrate at about 70% moisture, so the soaked weight of 100 lbs dry straw will be 330 lbs, or 230 lbs water. All you need to do is add a lime solution of 230 lbs, or about 27 gallons. The water for pasteurization then become the water for hydration. All the water is absorbed into the straw and there is no residual water to dispose of. In actual practice I like to add about 10 - 20% extra just to make it easy, I don't like to measure and it is not critical. Say you have some lime solution left over though, there is no need to dispose of it, just replenish and use again and again. It is not toxic like the hot water soak method, you can continue to use it, just add more ea time as needed. The main concern though is to use the correct type of lime. It has to be Hydrated lime, Calcium Hydroxide, and make sure it is not the high magnesium type. It should be 90%+ of Calcium Hydroxide. It is readily available, you just need to read the bag and make sure you are not getting some high Mag lime, or some Calcium Carbonate lime, THEY WILL NOT WORK for this method. The same works for soap. I hope this helps, if anyone has any questions, feel free to email me at john@alohamedicinals.com Make sure to check out the new growing supplies and cultures website, we decided to start offering the top end equipment that we use at Aloha, http://alohaculturebank.com
That's awesome info that will save me a lot of water and putting in a drain pipe!
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OmSource


Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 233
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Re: Radical PH change with wood ash. Pasteurization [Re: drake89]
#18513260 - 07/04/13 07:35 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Amazing info! Thanks John
I had a read of your paper on the "lime shower" technique but I have yet to try it out...it sounds promising (I'm happy to post it in a thread if that works for you)
What would be the benefits to using the shower process vs the dunk as you just described? just to keep the water from stagnating and oxygenated?
Also what inoculation rate and spawn type was used for the example given with the photos here
Cheers!
Edited by OmSource (07/04/13 08:14 PM)
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Radical PH change with wood ash. Pasteurization [Re: alohamed]
#18513444 - 07/04/13 08:34 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hi John, glad to see you join. Thanks for the great info! marc
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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john-hai
oyster lover



Registered: 05/11/11
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Re: Radical PH change with wood ash. Pasteurization [Re: RogerRabbit]
#18514284 - 07/05/13 01:59 AM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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would the wood/ash or calcium hydroxide work on wood chip or does it only work on straw?
how long do you soak the substrate?
john
-------------------- 3 rules i use to grow mushroom #1 local material #2 recycle when possible #3 make it simple
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Aleon
The Power of Our Origins



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 1,127
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: Radical PH change with wood ash. Pasteurization [Re: john-hai]
#18515341 - 07/05/13 10:04 AM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
john-hai said: would the wood/ash or calcium hydroxide work on wood chip or does it only work on straw? john
That was my next question too, does it work for wood? Very useful and efficient method for straw!
-------------------- Mushroom medicines available at: www.swordandshieldwellness.com
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Rylosie
Stranger

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Re: Radical PH change with wood ash. Pasteurization [Re: Aleon]
#18519409 - 07/06/13 08:12 AM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hi,
I can answer OmSource's question.
The strains in those pics: they are both Aloha strains, the white mushroom is ulmarius A and the brown mushroom is pulmonarius AX if I remember correctly.
As far as spawn rate, I do not know the exact percent spawn rate, but it is 2 lbs spawn for each of those logs.
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deadmandave
Slime


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Re: Radical PH change with wood ash. Pasteurization [Re: OmSource]
#18519862 - 07/06/13 11:03 AM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
OmSource said: What would be the benefits to using the shower process vs the dunk as you just described? just to keep the water from stagnating and oxygenated?
Just taking a guess, but i think the shower is used to keep the water travelling up and over all the straw. Since straw is not as absorbent as cotton, i dont think you could have a puddle of lime water at the bottom of a barrel and let it absorb into the straw at the top without moving the water up to the straw.
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Ripjohnnyc
ninja

Registered: 11/18/11
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Re: Radical PH change with wood ash. Pasteurization [Re: alohamed]
#18520237 - 07/06/13 12:41 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Anyone know if this particular example (27 gal of lime water) is for a 55 gal barrel full of straw? I dont have a scale on hand and have no idea how much 100lb of straw looks or feels like.
Quote:
alohamed said:
A few people have expressed concern about disposing of the high pH lime water. I guess I was not too clear in my instructions. If you do it right there is no residual water. What you do is calculate the amount of water you need. If you use 100 lbs of straw for example, it is going to hydrate at about 70% moisture, so the soaked weight of 100 lbs dry straw will be 330 lbs, or 230 lbs water. All you need to do is add a lime solution of 230 lbs, or about 27 gallons. The water for pasteurization then become the water for hydration. All the water is absorbed into the straw and there is no residual water to dispose of. In actual practice I like to add about 10 - 20% extra just to make it easy, I don't like to measure and it is not critical. Say you have some lime solution left over though, there is no need to dispose of it, just replenish and use again and again. It is not toxic like the hot water soak method, you can continue to use it, just add more ea time as needed. The main concern though is to use the correct type of lime. It has to be Hydrated lime, Calcium Hydroxide, and make sure it is not the high magnesium type. It should be 90%+ of Calcium Hydroxide. It is readily available, you just need to read the bag and make sure you are not getting some high Mag lime, or some Calcium Carbonate lime, THEY WILL NOT WORK for this method. The same works for soap. I hope this helps, if anyone has any questions, feel free to email me at john@alohamedicinals.com Make sure to check out the new growing supplies and cultures website, we decided to start offering the top end equipment that we use at Aloha, http://alohaculturebank.com
Quote:
alohamed said: Hi, this is John from Aloha Medicinals. I was the one that ran the trials with the wood ashes pasteurization method as part of our diversified ag program for some of the African countries. Actually to my surprise, the wood ashes method worked better than any of the other methods we had tried, with better BE than lime or soap or hot water or steam. The fruit bodies were better shaped and better shelf life, in short they were perfect. The only real difference was they fruited a couple days later than the other methods, around 22 days for the oyster strains we were running (4 strains) while the lime and steam ones fruited at 18 or 19 days.
A few people have expressed concern about disposing of the high pH lime water. I guess I was not too clear in my instructions. If you do it right there is no residual water. What you do is calculate the amount of water you need. If you use 100 lbs of straw for example, it is going to hydrate at about 70% moisture, so the soaked weight of 100 lbs dry straw will be 330 lbs, or 230 lbs water. All you need to do is add a lime solution of 230 lbs, or about 27 gallons. The water for pasteurization then become the water for hydration. All the water is absorbed into the straw and there is no residual water to dispose of. In actual practice I like to add about 10 - 20% extra just to make it easy, I don't like to measure and it is not critical. Say you have some lime solution left over though, there is no need to dispose of it, just replenish and use again and again. It is not toxic like the hot water soak method, you can continue to use it, just add more ea time as needed. The main concern though is to use the correct type of lime. It has to be Hydrated lime, Calcium Hydroxide, and make sure it is not the high magnesium type. It should be 90%+ of Calcium Hydroxide. It is readily available, you just need to read the bag and make sure you are not getting some high Mag lime, or some Calcium Carbonate lime, THEY WILL NOT WORK for this method. The same works for soap. I hope this helps, if anyone has any questions, feel free to email me at john@alohamedicinals.com Make sure to check out the new growing supplies and cultures website, we decided to start offering the top end equipment that we use at Aloha, http://alohaculturebank.com
Quote:
alohamed said: Hi, this is John from Aloha Medicinals. I was the one that ran the trials with the wood ashes pasteurization method as part of our diversified ag program for some of the African countries. Actually to my surprise, the wood ashes method worked better than any of the other methods we had tried, with better BE than lime or soap or hot water or steam. The fruit bodies were better shaped and better shelf life, in short they were perfect. The only real difference was they fruited a couple days later than the other methods, around 22 days for the oyster strains we were running (4 strains) while the lime and steam ones fruited at 18 or 19 days.
A few people have expressed concern about disposing of the high pH lime water. I guess I was not too clear in my instructions. If you do it right there is no residual water. What you do is calculate the amount of water you need. If you use 100 lbs of straw for example, it is going to hydrate at about 70% moisture, so the soaked weight of 100 lbs dry straw will be 330 lbs, or 230 lbs water. All you need to do is add a lime solution of 230 lbs, or about 27 gallons. The water for pasteurization then become the water for hydration. All the water is absorbed into the straw and there is no residual water to dispose of. In actual practice I like to add about 10 - 20% extra just to make it easy, I don't like to measure and it is not critical. Say you have some lime solution left over though, there is no need to dispose of it, just replenish and use again and again. It is not toxic like the hot water soak method, you can continue to use it, just add more ea time as needed. The main concern though is to use the correct type of lime. It has to be Hydrated lime, Calcium Hydroxide, and make sure it is not the high magnesium type. It should be 90%+ of Calcium Hydroxide. It is readily available, you just need to read the bag and make sure you are not getting some high Mag lime, or some Calcium Carbonate lime, THEY WILL NOT WORK for this method. The same works for soap. I hope this helps, if anyone has any questions, feel free to email me at john@alohamedicinals.com Make sure to check out the new growing supplies and cultures website, we decided to start offering the top end equipment that we use at Aloha, http://alohaculturebank.com
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OmSource


Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 233
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Radical PH change with wood ash. Pasteurization [Re: Rylosie]
#18522796 - 07/06/13 10:41 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rylosie said: Hi,
I can answer OmSource's question.
The strains in those pics: they are both Aloha strains, the white mushroom is ulmarius A and the brown mushroom is pulmonarius AX if I remember correctly.
As far as spawn rate, I do not know the exact percent spawn rate, but it is 2 lbs spawn for each of those logs.
Awesome, thanks for the info. Sounds like a decent amount of spawn (grain I assume) but that would just speed up colonisation and boost yields in the end. If it saves the energy of having to heat water or generate steam I'm in!
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Ripjohnnyc
ninja

Registered: 11/18/11
Posts: 115
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: Radical PH change with wood ash. Pasteurization [Re: zpores]
#18555456 - 07/14/13 12:28 AM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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At the aloha website, the directions are just to use both hands to scoop the lime out. So whatever fits in your hands i guess.
Quote:
zpores said: Awesome info, no waste or reusable. As I've never done this in practice it would be great to know rough amounts of lime/ash needed to create a ph spike of this magnitude, if the amounts are low, this could be the perfect way to pasteurize. Cheap, easy and no waste.
Edited by Ripjohnnyc (07/14/13 12:32 AM)
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