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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: Iraq may be on the edge but France has hit rock bottom abyss [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1846282 - 08/24/03 06:59 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
I've always found them to be arrogant pricks.




wow, I know that the cultural insecurity is justified and all, but really, you shouldn't wear it on your sleeve.



--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

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OfflineDeepDish2
journeyman
Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 55
Last seen: 15 years, 11 days
Re: Iraq may be on the edge but France has hit rock bottom a [Re: Phred]
    #1846313 - 08/24/03 07:07 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Any study of this type is going to use statistical s, based on a concrete set of data, to extrapolate maximum and minimum numbers for the entire region of Iraq. In that sense the numbers can be seen as imaginary, as the used can change those maximum and minumum values. I have posted below a study done by Richard Garfield of the University of Columbia, who has done extensive field work in Iraq. Why his extrapolations may not be quite so high, there is still sufficient evidence that sactions have greatly increased the infant mortality rate there.

Garfield's study

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Iraq may be on the edge but France has hit rock bottom abyss [Re: Malachi]
    #1846433 - 08/24/03 07:42 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

:lol:

Lamer by the day.

I have no insecurity, cultural or otherwise, but if it makes you feel all warm and tingly inside to think so, feel free.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: Iraq may be on the edge but France has hit rock bottom abyss [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1846439 - 08/24/03 07:43 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

yeah right, you just have an unreasonable hatred of french people because you're so much more cultured than they are. all of them. of course....

lamer.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
Re: Iraq may be on the edge but France has hit rock bottom a [Re: Phred]
    #1846441 - 08/24/03 07:44 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
Incorrect. "UNICEF" stated no such thing.

This is what happens when you accept other people's versions of what people say rather than reading what was actually said. See my above post.

pinksharkmark's "above post" said:
The authors of the study went to great pains to warn against using their studies to arrive at a figure of deaths due to sanctions.

pinksharkmark's previous post on this subject said:
As UNICEF itself is scrupulously careful to point out in UNICEF: Questions and Answers for the Iraq child mortality surveys - BAGHDAD, 16 August 1999 (UNICEF) Survey Methodology/credibility --

"These surveys were never intended to provide an absolute figure of how many children have died in Iraq as a result of sanctions. Given the difficulty of accurately and specifically attributing the cause of death of a child to sanctions, any such figure that may be derived would certainly be questionable."




Ok, so UNICEF said their numbers do not provide an "absolute figure of how many children have died in Iraq as a result of sanctions". So let's all agree 500,000 is not "absolute".

But if you look at their report (in pdf format), you'll see the following chart:



Now, since UNICEF said this chart can't be used to determine an "absolute figure" for deaths resulting from sanctions, what's your explanation for the huge increase in deaths that occured after sanctions were imposed???




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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: Iraq may be on the edge but France has hit rock bottom abyss [Re: Malachi]
    #1846478 - 08/24/03 07:52 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Malachi said:
yeah right, you just have an unreasonable hatred of french people because you're so much more cultured than they are.  all of them.  of course....

lamer. 



Perhaps you can show me where I said I hate the French. I said they are assholes and arrogant pricks.

Just because you are full of hate doesn't mean everyone else is.

You must really despise that white blood pumping through you. I find that funny.

I hope you never need surgery, you may get some more of that blood.

Kill whitey!  :lol:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: Iraq may be on the edge but France has hit rock bottom abyss [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1846810 - 08/24/03 09:49 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

ok, you've recycled that shit ^^ over and over in different threads.  yes, I'm of mixed race and I hold one culture of my origin in contempt.  you understand correctly.  there are in fact many full blooded white people who share my views, in fact you'd have a much harder time finding minorities that share yours.  perhaps that's because of your fondness for racial insults?  you and shatka

"The crack dealers and murderers are on the ones filling up the prisons. They are mostly black. :smile:"

are of the trash shade of white, it seems. thanks for proving that you are, indeed, a bigot.  since I refrain from making blanket statements about whole races of peoples, I manage to get along fine with my white side: cause my white side is definitely not part of your hillybilly white america trash.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: Iraq may be on the edge but France has hit rock bottom a [Re: Cornholio]
    #1846818 - 08/24/03 09:52 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)


nice :smile:  it's all about taking the time to prove your point.  quite admirable.
 


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
Last seen: 18 years, 11 months
Re: Iraq may be on the edge but France has hit rock bottom abyss [Re: d33p]
    #1847275 - 08/25/03 01:10 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
Quote:

Alex123 said:
- 08/24/03 05:55 AM the slaughter of well over 750,000 Iraqi children under 5.

- 08/15/03 03:26 PM sanctions policy that left 750,000 iraqi children under 5 dead?

- 02/26/03 08:44 PM genocidal sanctions that have killed well over 500,000 children under 5.

- 02/24/03 08:59 PM responsible for the deaths of those 500,000 children under five?





So in 6 months your toll of iraqi kid's deaths due to US sanctions increased 50%? Or does 750,000 just sound better than 500,000


Hey Al, we're all waiting for a response to this ^^^^ post.


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Iraq may be on the edge but France has hit rock bottom a [Re: Cornholio]
    #1847360 - 08/25/03 01:51 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Interesting info Cornholio. Here's some more:

The monthly food rations the Iraqis are dependent on from the UN last only two to three weeks and do not contain any protein, according to Ms Quinn. A UNICEF report which came out last August showed that 25 per cent of children under five years in Iraq are malnourished and over 4,500 die every month as a result. Ms Quinn says she expects this year's UNICEF report to show an even higher rate of death among children.

http://www.ngwrc.org/news/content/FriFeb250918022000.asp


The death-toll caused by deliberate strangulation of economic life cannot yet be estimated with full accuracy?that will be a task for historians. According to the most careful authority, Richard Garfield, ?a conservative estimate of ?excess deaths? among under five-year-olds since 1991 would be 300,000?, [?The Public Health Impact of Sanctions?, Middle East Report, no. 215, Summer 2000, p. 17. Garfield is Professor of Clinical International Nursing at Columbia.
] while UNICEF?reporting in 1997 that ?4,500 children under the age of five are dying each month from hunger and disease??reckons the number of small children killed by the blockade at 500,000. [UNICEF, ?Iraq Survey Shows ?Humanitarian Emergency??, 12 August 1999] Other deaths are more difficult to quantify but, as Garfield points out, ?UNICEF?s mortality rates represent only the tip of the iceberg as to the enormous damage done to the four out of five Iraqis who do survive beyond their fifth birthday?. [7] In late 1998 the UN Humanitarian Coordinator for Iraq, former Assistant Secretary General Dennis Halliday, an Irishman, resigned from his post in protest against the blockade, declaring that the total deaths it had caused could be upwards of a million. [See Siege of Iraq, pp. 45, 67] When his successor Hans von Sponeck had the temerity to include civilian casualties from Anglo-American bombing raids in his brief, the Clinton and Blair regimes demanded his dismissal. In late 1999 he too resigned, explaining that his duty had been to the people of Iraq, and that ?every month Iraq?s social fabric shows bigger holes?. The so-called Oil-For-Food sanctions, in place since 1996, allow Iraq only $4 billion of petroleum exports a year, when a minimum of $7 billion is needed even for greatly reduced national provision. [9] In a decade, the US and UK have achieved a result without parallel in modern history. Iraq is now, Garfield reports, the only instance in the last two hundred years of a sustained, large-scale increase in mortality in a country with a stable population of over two million. [10]

http://home.iprimus.com.au/boab3/aliiraq.htm

The Humanitarian Report to the UN Security Council of March 30, 1999, notes that Iraq "has experienced a shift from relative affluence to massive poverty" and that "infant mortality rates in Iraq today are among the highest in the world." UN report after UN report has emphasized the damages of the sanctions, with UNICEF reporting in 1997 that 32% of children under age 5--some 960,000 children--are chronically malnourished, a rise of 72% since 1991. Current UNICEF reports estimate that 6,000 to 7,000 Iraqi children under 5 die every month. The World Health Organization has reported that Iraq?s health care system has been completely devastated as a direct result of the sanctions.

I was among many United Nations employees who could not last a full year in Iraq, my dream turned to nightmare. For those inside, it became painfully clear that the United Nations had not only failed to alleviate the pain and suffering of the Iraqi people, but, through the sanctions, were in fact the cause of much of the suffering. Among the high-profile UN officials who resigned in protest of the sanctions was Dennis Halliday, former UN Assistant Secretary-General and Chief UN Relief Coordinator for Iraq. In a speech to Harvard students, Halliday explained that ?sanctions continue to kill children and sustain high levels of malnutrition. Sanctions are undermining cultural and educational recovery. Sanctions will not change governance to democracy. Sanctions are counterproductive and have no positive impact on the leadership, and sanctions lead to unacceptable human suffering, often the young and the innocent.? Halliday?s predecessor, UN Humanitarian Coordinator Hans Von Sponeck, had also resigned after less than a year in Baghdad.

Dennis Halliday, the former UN Secretary General and Humanitarian Coordinator in Iraq says, "We, (the US), are in the process of destroying an entire society. It is as simple and terrifying as that. It is illegal and immoral." Halliday made this statement in 1998 in an interview with the Independent. Halliday was so distraught with the absurdity of sanctions and their justification, along with their consequences and apparent perpetuity, that he made this statement, "Sanctions are starving to death 6,000 Iraqi infants each month... I no longer want to be a part of that." Based on these facts and feelings Halliday stepped down as Assistant Secretary General and joined the effort to lift sanctions.

http://www.spintechmag.com/9908/rb0899.htm


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Iraq may be on the edge but France has hit rock bottom abyss [Re: luvdemshrooms] * 1
    #1847376 - 08/25/03 01:58 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Perhaps you can show me where I said I hate the French. I said they are assholes and arrogant pricks.

How many french people have you actually met?

Just because you are full of hate doesn't mean everyone else is.

What other explanation can you have for calling 61 million people "arrogant pricks" simply because they are french? You arn't exactly basing this judgement on reason are you.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Iraq may be on the edge but France has hit rock bottom abyss [Re: Malachi]
    #1847500 - 08/25/03 03:25 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Laughing at you for hating 1/2 of your genetic makeup is no insult. I think it explains much actually.

The only blanket statement I've made about race is that anyone can make something of him or herself if they only chose to.

You on the other hand.... well we all have seen your opinion and most seem to have dismissed it.

So keep on with your racist rant and I'll keep  :lol:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Iraq may be on the edge but France has hit rock bottom abyss [Re: Xlea321]
    #1847506 - 08/25/03 03:28 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

How many french people have you actually met?



Quite a few.


Quote:

What other explanation can you have for calling 61 million people "arrogant pricks" simply because they are french? You arn't exactly basing this judgement on reason are you.



Yes actually I am. The majority of those I've met have been arrogant assholes who have a superiority complex.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: Iraq may be on the edge but France has hit rock bottom abyss [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1847538 - 08/25/03 04:03 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

"I said.....assholes and arrogant pricks" --that doesn't qualify as a blanket statement? read, old man, read. then think. then read again.

".....arrogant assholes who have a superiority complex."

it couldn't be that you just where the butt of their jokes? it's not a complex, it just that in general, frech people are more refined, more interesting, and more intelligent than you are.

I mean, think about it man... you have a ted nugent quote as your sig.







--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Iraq may be on the edge but France has hit rock bottom abyss [Re: Malachi]
    #1847559 - 08/25/03 04:16 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

It's you who needs to think....
you said blanket statement about RACE.... I made no blanket statement about any race.

As a matter of fact, since you don't seem able to remember what you say long enough for people to respond to it, or you are being deliberately dishonest, here is what you said....

"from making blanket statements about whole races of peoples,"

To which I responded...
"The only blanket statement I've made about race is that anyone can make something of him or herself if they only chose to."


Last I knew, being from a certain country was not the same as being a certain RACE.

Keep up lil' boy, it's not that hard if you read what was written rather than what you want to see.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Iraq may be on the edge but France has hit rock bottom abyss [Re: Malachi]
    #1847595 - 08/25/03 04:51 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

I mean, think about it man... you have a ted nugent quote as your sig.

:lol:  :thumbup:


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Iraq may be on the edge but France has hit rock bottom abyss [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1847597 - 08/25/03 04:55 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Last I knew, being from a certain country was not the same as being a certain RACE.

It's coming from the same ignorance isn't it tho luv. Dismissing 61 million people on the basis of the country they were born in? Come on - even you arn't that stupid.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: Iraq may be on the edge but France has hit rock bottom abyss [Re: Xlea321]
    #1847642 - 08/25/03 06:04 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Ignorant? Something you excel at.

I know quite a few French. The vast majority have been arrogant little pricks. There are of course exceptions. I mean after all, the vast majority of English I've met have been decent people. You are an exception to that.

There are exceptions to everything. And I didn't "dismiss" them, merely commented on my experiences with them, plus what I've read over the years.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Iraq may be on the edge but France has hit rock bottom abyss [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1847663 - 08/25/03 06:38 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Very weak.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

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InvisibleStarter
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Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 1,148
Loc: Australia
Re: Iraq may be on the edge but France has hit rock bottom abyss [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1847668 - 08/25/03 06:40 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

luvdemshrooms, what a load of cods. Like anywhere there's good people and bad people. I've met some cool French people and I've met some bad ones, be it in Australia or when I was over in France and in New Caledonia.

As for this thread and the half million dead kids in Iraq from the genocidal sanctions...

Television interview,"60 Minutes", (CBS) May 12, 1996:
Lesley Stahl, speaking of US sanctions against Iraq:

"We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And -- and you know, is the price worth it?"

Madeleine Albright: "I think this is a very hard choice, but the price -- we think the price is worth it."

(Ps. just copy/paste Albright's quote to google and you'll get a heap of links. You'll also note Albright does not deny the figure).


--------------------
Convert Metric and Imperial.

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