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Amazon Shop for: Hawaiian Baby Woodrose

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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Improving HBWR potency.
    #1847130 - 08/25/03 01:51 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

How can I improve the seeds potency through generations?

ex.

*4 UVB reptilite 5.0 floros 30".*
*100 watt hid.*

In an indoor environment. With lots of care.


My hypothesis is that the seeds will get genetically improved.
Thus having higher acid based content in seeds.


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OfflineDiMiTriSouljah
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Re: Improving HBWR potency. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1847604 - 08/25/03 07:08 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

theshiftingwalls said:
My hypothesis is that the seeds will get genetically improved.
Thus having higher acid based content in seeds.




What would lead you to believe that?
I can personally see no reason why these parameters would encourage a higher alkaloid content in the said plant. I am by no means an authority on these matters, but I simply can't see a connection.

I have heard of a method to raise the content of LAAs in both Morning Glories and Hawaiian Baby Woodrose, however, I have never actually read this method. It is mentioned in "Growing the Hallucinogens". Check the HBWR vault at Erowid for it.


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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Improving HBWR potency. [Re: DiMiTriSouljah]
    #1849917 - 08/25/03 11:53 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

High (8.0 total) UV radiation would put more stress on the plant to evolve each generation to an indoor environment. Better for an indoor environment growth.

By 10th Gen it would be stable in growth and be higher in potency.

This is my theory.


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Offlineneuro
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Re: Improving HBWR potency. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1850041 - 08/26/03 12:37 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

How can I improve the seeds potency through generations?

ex.

*4 UVB reptilite 5.0 floros 30".*
*100 watt hid.*

In an indoor environment. With lots of care.


My hypothesis is that the seeds will get genetically improved.
Thus having higher acid based content in seeds.





Have you subscribed to the Communist Russia view of botany and heredity, or maybe the more refined Mao Ze Dong version?

That's like saying that one day a Giraffe stretched it's neck to eat food and all its off-spring were born that way, or that cutting off a dog's tail wll make its off-spring not have tails.


The best way to improve genetics is to select the traits you like and keep breeding. I think it'll be rather hard with seeds to figure out which ones contain the most LSA and then grow that one tha thad the most LSA, as you'd have to bioassay or pulverize it for MS/GC or even TLC. You could perhaps determine if other indicators of a healthy plant were conjoined with LSA production. Then grow out a few seeds, notice those indicators, and allow the one that the best indicators to seed, and continue until satisfactory LSA content. Though i'm not sure it's possible.

But certainly better conditions don't improve genetics. Beter conditions provide the opportunity for the genetics to do their best, but doesn't improve them.


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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Improving HBWR potency. [Re: neuro]
    #1850231 - 08/26/03 01:38 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I see, I ponder how you can do it fast.


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OfflineDiMiTriSouljah
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Re: Improving HBWR potency. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1850552 - 08/26/03 05:01 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I was unable to access Erowid at the time I posted previously, so here is an excerpt that you may find interesting, I haven't tried searching for the book "Home Grown Highs" myself.

"Various methods have been devised to increase the alkaloid content of the seeds by altering the soil chemistry and using hormones. An interesting account of these methods is found in the book Home Grown Highs by Mary Jane Superweed." -- Growing the Hallucinogens, Ipomoea violacea

Altering the genetics, or even selecting seeds with desirable genetics is going to be one hell of a feat, as neuro said. I would suggest instead going about optimizing your growing conditions if you want fast results on raising alkaloid production. But by all means, it would be a very interesting study to see genetics incorporated into a HBWR growing experiment. However, judging from your post above, you are not extremely qualified in the field of genetics (no offence, just an observation) and I would suggest leaving that type of experiment to someone who is.


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Offlinecanid
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Re: Improving HBWR potency. [Re: DiMiTriSouljah]
    #1851502 - 08/26/03 03:30 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


But certainly better conditions don't improve genetics.




quite right. actualy; i speculate that the closer to a generaly ideal environment the plant is grown in the more the genetic stock will stay the same.
on the other hand, while forcing stressful conditions will provide opportunity to eliminate certain unwanted traits, it will not encourage greater rate of adaptation as theshiftingwalls seems to be suggesting. there is [to my knowlege] no mechanism to support this idea unless some "chemical answer" where employed to encourage mutation; though, this too seems unlikely to provide any pratcital hope of beneficial adaptations. moreover, the number of generations involved would be excruciatingly large. i am curious to know where this 10th. generation idea came from.


--------------------



Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.


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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Improving HBWR potency. [Re: canid]
    #1852342 - 08/26/03 07:56 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Does high content of UV light encourage genetic mutation?


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Offlinecanid
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Re: Improving HBWR potency. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1852375 - 08/26/03 08:03 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

it encourages cellular degredation. not quite the same thing.


--------------------



Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.


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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Improving HBWR potency. [Re: canid]
    #1852430 - 08/26/03 08:19 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Would cellular degredation help any thing for the better?


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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Improving HBWR potency. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1852604 - 08/26/03 09:24 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Maybe I might even find a new Genotype because of indoor environment and select that Genotype. Then breed those type of genetics through years and years of select breeding. Then will that help the growth?


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Offlinecanid
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Re: Improving HBWR potency. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1852980 - 08/26/03 11:21 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


Would cellular degredation help any thing for the better?




in some cases the effect of the degradation may be damage to the chromashome in wich there is no imediate ill effect and the cell survives [verry unlikely]. if this happens, there may be a change in the reproduction of the cell where a new trait emerges and is noticed when the organism reproduces [ie, goes to seed and the seed germinates/grows. if that trait is beneficial to a certain envirnoment that happens t be manifested [or reproduced under artificial conditions] the organism will survive hwile others without this new trait might not.

if you count the instances of qualifiers used in this post you will notice that the odds of this situation arising are rather low. not practical or likely to be worth the effort of one person.



--------------------



Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.


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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 4,128
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Re: Improving HBWR potency. [Re: canid]
    #1853260 - 08/27/03 12:37 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

No, I'm not an expert. :tongue:


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Amazon Shop for: Hawaiian Baby Woodrose

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> The Ethnobotanical Garden

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