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InvisibleGrateful Dead
A Growing Ambivalence
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Registered: 11/19/12
Posts: 2,468
Loc: Parked Car, Playing NPR
Who was more right? Orwell or Huxley?
    #18465831 - 06/24/13 03:28 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Orwell feared the deprivation of information, the removal of books for instance, and a resulting nanny state.  Aldous Huxley, in his 1932 novel, “Brave New World” depicts a similarly dreary future, although I think Huxley’s reasoning is actually closer to the truth.  Where Orwell feared the removal of books by a controlling state, Huxley feared that books would become irrelevant because people wouldn't be bothered with the chore of actually reading. I keep finding more and more that is true, We have freedom of speech to protest the wrongdoing of the government but no one bothers with it, because of the mass attitude of "I can't change anything" or just thinking "it's alright, because things are "good" right now, so if the NSA is spying on me its ok"

Same with new technology, think of how much info we are now freely giving out without a second thought? Facebook and cell phones with GPS, facial recognition in phones and video games how would people 50 years ago view this? It’s probably not a bad idea to apply a bit of Orwellian thinking to implications of new technology.  Maybe I’m just a pessimist, but I don’t like where all this is taking us – what do you think?


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Life begins on the other side of despair...

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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Who was more right? Orwell or Huxley? [Re: Grateful Dead]
    #18465839 - 06/24/13 03:29 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Nanny state is here in every way, you just have to look

The only question is: follow laws? or be obliged to break them when they don't make sense?

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InvisibleGrateful Dead
A Growing Ambivalence
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Registered: 11/19/12
Posts: 2,468
Loc: Parked Car, Playing NPR
Re: Who was more right? Orwell or Huxley? [Re: lessismore]
    #18465875 - 06/24/13 03:41 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

I'm more obliged to break them when they don't make sense, but when there is only one person doing that, you are just breaking a law, and its easy for them to just arrest you and make done with it. But if A million people all break a law, it ceases to be a law, and they have to rethink their actions, we have such power. Look at The Arab Spring, all the protests in turkey and Brazil, they understand that have have the power. When will we realize this? Sometimes I feel like I'm overreacting but if everyone justified what they government was doing nothing would change. Its a hard predicament.


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Life begins on the other side of despair...

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InvisibleLuddite
I watch Fox News
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Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,946
Re: Who was more right? Orwell or Huxley? [Re: Grateful Dead]
    #18465990 - 06/24/13 04:16 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

IRONY OF ALL IRONIES!!!

In most cases its taboo to bring up the subject of

TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS!
TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS!
TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS!
TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS!
TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS!
TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS! TUBERCULOSIS!

but I'll bring up the disgusting subject anyway.  Don't worry.  You can't catch it from me through your computer, if I had it, which would probably be latent if I was infected with it, but I'm afraid to get tested for it because I might end up like Andrew Speaker (use google).

An important aspect of the novel 1984 is that the author George Orwell was sick with active tuberculosis for years including the time he wrote 1984.  TB fucks with your mind.  Orwell was in and out of tuberculosis sanatoriums for years.  No one wants to discuss the hundreds of TB sanatoriums that existed throughout the world.  Most were shut down when antibiotics that can cure it were developed.  Even with the antibiotics, you have to take them for months to get rid of it.  There's more and more drug resistant TB spreading throughout the world, mostly in Asia, Africa and parts of South America.  TB, historically, is the greatest single killer of mankind.  It has killed more people than war, other diseases or any other cause of death.  It has an enormous stigma and no one wants to discuss it, so most people don't have a clue about the magnitude of the threat of this disease.  If you try to bring up the subject, the ingnorant wonder if you are a lunger.

A quote from Orwell:

"Orwell himself told his friends that 1984 would have been less gloomy had he not been so ill—it was a very dark, disturbing, and pessimistic work," Ross said. Orwell's illnesses "made him a better and more empathetic writer, in that his sense of human suffering made his writing more universal."

http://www.livescience.com/425-study-george-orwell-illnesses-influenced-1984.html

http://shopofenlightenment.com/forum/tuberculous-weirdness-t3644.html


TB is a far greater threat to mankind than mankind himself.  1/3 of the human race is infected with it.  It can remain latent for years and then suddenly become active which is then contagious.  It kills more people now than at any time in history.  Much of what Orwell wrote about was probably based on his experiences with TB sanatoriums and the disease itself.

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InvisibleLuddite
I watch Fox News
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Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,946
Re: Who was more right? Orwell or Huxley? [Re: Luddite]
    #18466050 - 06/24/13 04:31 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

http://granuloma.homestead.com/TB_cavitary_gross.html


Tuberculosis: "The Captain of All These Men of Death"
http://www.paho.org/English/DD/PIN/Number1_article5.htm

TB timebomb (click to look inside) http://www.amazon.com/Timebomb-Epidemic-Multi-Drug-Resistant-Tuberculosis/dp/0071422501

Drug-resistant tuberculosis a "time bomb," WHO chief says
http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=drug-resistant-tuberculosis-a-time-2009-04-01

You can see a world-wide map of TB incidence rate next to the grim reapers here. Enlarge to see more detail.
http://cmspath.edu/rfc/lectures11-12/garon/pulmonary/garon-tuberculosis_2012.pdf

Tuberculosis in America: The People's Plague (Part I: The Captain of All These Men of Death)
Tuberculosis in America: The People's Plague (Part II: The Gospel of Health)
http://www.directcinemalimited.com/dcl/title.php?id=543&start=T

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InvisibleGrateful Dead
A Growing Ambivalence
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Registered: 11/19/12
Posts: 2,468
Loc: Parked Car, Playing NPR
Re: Who was more right? Orwell or Huxley? [Re: Luddite]
    #18466052 - 06/24/13 04:32 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Um....Not really sure what you are getting at? You are saying that  tuberculosis made Orwell view the world as he did? Is that a good thing? And I don't think TB alone has killed more people then war...In fact it definitely didn't kill as many people has Smallpox, Spanish Flu, Black Death, Malaria, AIDS, Cholera and Typhus. Same with war, In WW2 Alone over 100 million people died. I don't get what tuberculosis has to do with anything...:shrug:


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Life begins on the other side of despair...

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Offlineammoniac
Self-colonizing

Registered: 01/13/13
Posts: 40
Loc: Over my feet
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
Re: Who was more right? Orwell or Huxley? [Re: Grateful Dead]
    #18468651 - 06/25/13 05:08 AM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Huxley described what happened in capitalist countries and societies, where a handful of elites, control the global state and made it a hierarchised society with controlled life styles (alpha through epsilon) where one only knows as much as one should know (lower-class people getting a shorter and smaller education) with ultra-liberal morals to prevent emotions, a designer drug that allows you to escape reality, soma, with no side effects. Human's lives are more and more industrialized, they are made industrially not born in the new era of fordisme and the wild humans are considered animals to put in a zoo.
I loved it and considered him the ultimate visionnary genius. Another great utopia he wrote is Island. Where he depicts a culture of freedom of choice, harmony and refusal of the global market.


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NH3

A liberated psyche is what we sow from things that are illegal and may cost you physical freedom.

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InvisibleGrateful Dead
A Growing Ambivalence
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Registered: 11/19/12
Posts: 2,468
Loc: Parked Car, Playing NPR
Re: Who was more right? Orwell or Huxley? [Re: ammoniac]
    #18469385 - 06/25/13 11:13 AM (10 years, 9 months ago)

That is indeed true, but do you think our society now is leaning more towards that, or the restrictive Orwellian type of society?


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