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preternaturalist
On Hiatus



Registered: 11/28/12
Posts: 372
Loc: Gotham City
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
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Re: My Pasteurization Process [Re: Snuus]
#18058514 - 04/04/13 04:26 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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Frank, I'm wondering about your meat thermometer. How far into the sub do you have the tip of it? Is it near the center of the jar?
What I'm suggesting is that the substrate further from the center and closer to the jar wall will be warmer than the substrate from which you get your readings. It wouldn't be a significant difference, but a few degrees might end up sterilizing part of someone's substrate. Wouldn't you want to keep the center cooler, say around 150-155? Still within pasteurization range.
-------------------- Microbulk In contrast to the supernatural, preternatural phenomena UTFSE are presumed to have rational explanations that are unknown.
Jars for PF Tek!!! Frank's WBS Prep Frank's Simple Bulk - follow his links Frank's Cloning Tek A Great Gallery Play Bloxorz!!!
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Quote:
preternaturalist said: Frank, I'm wondering about your meat thermometer. How far into the sub do you have the tip of it? Is it near the center of the jar?
What I'm suggesting is that the substrate further from the center and closer to the jar wall will be warmer than the substrate from which you get your readings. It wouldn't be a significant difference, but a few degrees might end up sterilizing part of someone's substrate. Wouldn't you want to keep the center cooler, say around 150-155? Still within pasteurization range.
That's the beauty of it, really. The outer portions can and will be above 160 and that's ok. The center of the substrate is what matters. The good bacteria spreads quickly while cooling and when you spawn your tub 
I put my thermometer through the center of the foil lid and about halfway into the jar. Maybe 2/3 sometimes. Haven't had a problem yet
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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From what i've observed the top portion of substrate (above the water line) lags behind in temp more so than the middle (once you go down a bit). As such i aim for to be close to 160 down in there most of the duration (turning on the heat a bit to bring it back up part way through if need be) to try & prevent the top part not getting inadequately pasteurized. I suppose i could try loading a bit less per jar & weighing them down with something on top so that it's not an issue.
-------------------- --- nothing right now ---
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said: From what i've observed the top portion of substrate (above the water line) lags behind in temp more so than the middle (once you go down a bit). As such i aim for to be close to 160 down in there most of the duration (turning on the heat a bit to bring it back up part way through if need be) to try & prevent the top part not getting inadequately pasteurized. I suppose i could try loading a bit less per jar & weighing them down with something on top so that it's not an issue.
I've never had this problem myself but I see where you're coming from. I fill the water up as far as I can without making the jars float. Then I weigh them down with a canning rack and brick to keep them from bobbing.
The glass is a good insulator and should transfer enough heat through the jars to heat all the substrate inside. Even if it stays a little cooler on top inside the jars, it should still be at pasteurizing temps when the center of the remainder of the jar is at 160F.
Also, putting the lid loosely on top of the pot really seems to help trap that heat inside. I'll test a few different areas in the jars today when I pasteurize and let you know what I find
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut


Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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I made some slight changes to this process.
I put a few jar rings on the bottom, then I put my jars in, then the spacer that came with my PC, then a weight on top, then fill with water almost to the top of the substrate.
I've been putting the probe near the top of the substrate, for the reason mentioned above. Once the substrate gets to 140F, I push the probe farther in and it's always about 5 or so degrees warmer.
I only let the water get up to 165F.
It takes me about 2 hours for the substrate to get to 140.
I've been putting 6 quart jars in my pots, but I have 2 big canning pots that can fit 8 quart jars each. I think I will try spreading the substrate out to so the level in each jar will be lower.
My thinking is that I could then bring the water level up past the top of the substrate. I may try 7 in each pot and see how it looks and spread to 8 if I need too.
I'm not sure how much the minor discrepancy in temperature matters, but I feel more comfortable knowing no part of the substrate goes above 165F and the whole thing remains above 140F for 1 hour 45 minutes.
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Quote:
SpitballJedi said: the whole thing remains above 140F for 1 hour 45 minutes.
Everything looks good except this right here. I would only recommend pasteurizing for 90 minutes at most. I keep my pasteurization times between 30 and 60 minutes. Never caused me an issue
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut


Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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K. I'll give 60 minutes a go.
Again, congrats on your TC tag. Do you have to get out of the shower to pee now?
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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LD50

Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 63
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: Frank's Proper Pasteurization Tek (with pics) [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18081774 - 04/09/13 12:59 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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Nice thread! Is there anyway to favorite threads so you can find them easily in the future?
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Quote:
LD50 said: Nice thread! Is there anyway to favorite threads so you can find them easily in the future?
Yep, it's under "Extra Information" at the bottom of the page. It says "toggle favorite" 
Quote:
SpitballJedi said: K. I'll give 60 minutes a go.
Again, congrats on your TC tag. Do you have to get out of the shower to pee now? 

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bassclef
Stranger

Registered: 02/09/13
Posts: 115
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
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giving this tek a try, failed my first time trying the bucket tek, but I made a lot of mistakes last time anyway.
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Frank's Proper Pasteurization Tek (with pics) [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18383369 - 06/07/13 02:13 PM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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Here's a big update today:
Quote:
Pasteurizing the substrate in a bag
Lately I've been working on efficiency and pasteurizing the substrate in one big container is a great time saver.
I use extra long filter patch bags for these pictures but this can also be done with an oven bag or even poly tubing.
One advantage of using filter patch bags is that you will have filtered air exchange during the cooling of the substrate. This isn't really a big deal for coir/verm but with substrates like hpoo or additives like coffee grounds, it never hurts to be as safe as possible.
One disadvantage of pasteurizing in bags is that is takes an extra hour or so to get up to temp.
Take your substrate bag and fill it with your hydrated substrate mixture. Compress the substrate a bit so it stays in shape when moved around, try to get all the pockets of air out.

I use a tie wire and twist-n-tie off the top of the bag and place it in my kettle. Place a thermometer through the bag into the center of the substrate.

Fill the water up about an inch or two from the top of the bag. I place two bricks on either side of the thermometer to keep the bag from floating.

I put the lid on and turn the heat to medium. I set my alarm on my timer for 96F, a good internal temperature to turn the heat off at IME. The water will boil and that is completely fine.

When the center climbs to 140F, I start my timer for 75-90 minutes.
When time is up, I take the substrate out of the kettle and place it in a closed box to cool.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: Frank's Proper Pasteurization Tek (with pics) [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18383391 - 06/07/13 02:19 PM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Solipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist



Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3,398
Loc: the Neitherlands
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Re: My Pasteurization Process [Re: cronicr]
#18385239 - 06/07/13 09:09 PM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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Not everyone has remote thermometers, can this tek work with just a lab thermometer? Of course to read a normal thermometer on the inside of a kettle it cannot be a sealed PC. Will a normal cooking pan suffice or is the steam not enough? What about submerging the substrate bags or jars a bit more and putting the lid on the pan (hopefully the lab thermometer can still fit diagonally)?
Can you enlighten me what difference a PC compared to normal pan has here and how to do this with a lab thermometer? (With sterilisation I understand the point of a PC: to 'bomb the shit out of it'. But if nothing above 212F / 100C is needed it is not strictly necessary?)
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tko
Stranger

Registered: 05/08/13
Posts: 496
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Re: My Pasteurization Process [Re: Solipsis]
#18385752 - 06/07/13 11:00 PM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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solipsis, you dont want to sterilize the substrate this is simply steaming till you hit 140 160 inside the sub then set timer and hell correct me if im wrong but think he just puts lid once its at 96 degrees and the heat builds when covered.
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Maya Boomba
Stranger

Registered: 04/14/13
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Re: My Pasteurization Process [Re: tko]
#18433331 - 06/17/13 06:46 PM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hey Frank!
I was just pasteurizing some Hpoo/coir/verm mix and I see you updated this thread with the bag filter method. I got a big ass pot (68qt) and I was wondering if there's a bag big enough so I could do all my substrate at the same time if I ever wanted to get that many.
Did you get yours from Mad Season?
Let me know which sponsor you are using, and if anyone knows of a CANADIAN sponsor that sells them, i'd LOVE to save the extra fee I have to pay everytime something cross the border.
Thanks in advance!
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tko
Stranger

Registered: 05/08/13
Posts: 496
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Re: My Pasteurization Process [Re: Maya Boomba]
#18436010 - 06/18/13 09:43 AM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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i had asked him same question and he recommended an ove bag or just a big ziplock.
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: My Pasteurization Process [Re: tko]
#18436151 - 06/18/13 10:25 AM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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I actually just got another 100 large size filter bags from TMS and I've started using one bag to one brick's worth of substrate 
Ziplocks or oven bags work as well.
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Mike12000
Experienced Wanderer


Registered: 05/05/13
Posts: 110
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Hi Frank!! Being new to this I truly appreciate your teks and the detail you put into them. They've really helped me get over a lot of the learning curve with this hobby, though I'm sure there's more to always learn.
I'm currently doing a side by side with your wbs prep tek and TL's and do far 4 of your jars have growth to 0 of TL's!!! The only difference I've found between the teks is he suggests soaking in hot water, you don't. I wonder if the alteration you made here with gypsum being added after water but before pc/pasturizing will work on wbs to eliminate the sludge at the bottom??
Now to the reason of my post, while grabbing more wbs at Walmart today I came across a thermometer that is a little better IMHO than the one you posted. This one can release from the dock and alert you in a 100 foot range!! It was about $15. Just trying to give a little back for what this forum has shown me.
Edited by Mike12000 (06/18/13 04:51 PM)
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10KOysters
Food Cultivator
Registered: 04/18/13
Posts: 429
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
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Re: My Pasteurization Process [Re: Mike12000]
#18461035 - 06/23/13 01:48 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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I found the setting on my stove that allows me to walk away and leave it.
The water sits at approximately 150F and the substrate stays at around 140F in the middle. This allows me to do an easy 2hr pasteurization run and no worries about sterilizing parts of it. Just turn it on and set the timer when it reaches temp. Most references to pasteurization in commercial setups (I've found) recommend maintaining the 140F for 2hrs or longer. The point is to maintain the temp where beneficial bacteria thrives and multiplies; should anyone be having trich issues and you know you're not sterilizing, a higher beneficial bacteria count may assist.
What do I know though? lol 
Your stuff is good, Frank. Thanks for posting this.
-------------------- I object to the prolific use of 'Submit' buttons on the internet
Edited by 10KOysters (06/23/13 01:54 PM)
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: My Pasteurization Process [Re: 10KOysters]
#18461535 - 06/23/13 04:19 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Actaully 10k I have found that I prefer to let the water boil when bringing the core to 140-160F.
The bacteria you want will thrive in the center of the substrate while everything else begins to die at 170F+ on the outer areas. While cooling and especially while spawning, this bacteria will propagate and take hold of the whole substrate as it should.
I would venture to guess it might even be easier for the thermophiles to spread if the outer parts of the sub get excessively heated.
The key is to not go over 160-165F at the core of the substrate for more than a few minutes. That, with temps in the center held between 140-160 for 60-90min and you have a well-prepared substrate ready for open air spawning.
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