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Offlinecoffeehead
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Filter Discs & Room Humidity?
    #18443228 - 06/19/13 04:14 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Hi. First off, I'm new posting here -- I've been lurking since early Winter.

I'm growing some azurescens on a) rye, b) different combinations of rye and aspen chips and c) rye, aspen chips and some township compost whose main ingredient is probably hardwood leaves. They're in half pint jars with inoculation ports and roughly one inch filter discs. I boiled the rye for 10 minutes, drained it, packed it in the jars, and pressure cooked & inoculated them.

Nothing happened for a week. After 10 days the grain looked noticeably drier so I injected each jar with 3 to 4 ml water. That started the mycelium growing in the 100% rye and a few other jars, but in a few days growth slowed again. So a week or later I injected each jar again with 6 ml of water. In a few days the mycelium really took off. All of this time the room's relative humidity (RH) was in the high 30 to mid 40% range, temperature from 80 to 85 degrees.

At the same time as my second azurescens re-hydration, I inoculated some half pints of B+, the only differences in procedure being I boiled the rye a few minutes longer and used straight rye in all of the jars.

A few days later I bought a cool mist ultrasonic humidifier and raised the RH up to 68 to 70%. The azurescens continued to grow well and after four or five days the newly inoculated B+ jumped to life, seemingly with the increase in RH. What I don't understand, however, is what happened in the two azurescens jars containing 100% rye. Their growth has slowed to zero, the mycelium has lost its fuzz and both jars basically look like they're drying up again.

So I think I've learned partial answers to my first set of questions:

1) If you use filter discs do you have to adjust the ambient RH? If so, what's the optimal range? Do you need even higher RH if you use larger filter discs?

If you can bear with me, another question. And yes, I've read and searched this place like crazy for as many answers as I could find already.

I'm waiting for the arrival of a pasteurizer so I let the room temp drop to 79 (so far). The lower temperature made the RH spike to 74% with the humidifier turned almost all of the way down. I just checked both sets of jars and the azurescens seem to be growing much better and even the jars with 100% rye have developed splotches of normal looking mycelium. The B+ is just waiting to be put onto something and I want to slow them down.

The problem now is that I'm afraid of excessive moisture in the jars. I shook up the azurescens for their last time so their moisture is fairly distributed -- I'll worry about them later. The B+ jars have tiny water droplets between the glass and mycelium and a bit of water on their bottoms. In my experience this is an invitation to contamination. I'm worried that if I just throw the jars into a cool location it might cause the moisture to condense, worsening the problem. So my second question:

2) What's the best way to slow the growth of mycelium in a jar that's on the wet side?

I'm thinking of putting it in cooler room in front of a fan.

Thanks for any help.

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Invisibletko
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Registered: 05/08/13
Posts: 496
Re: Filter Discs & Room Humidity? [Re: coffeehead]
    #18444159 - 06/19/13 07:50 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

thats why you dont add extra water except for the spore solution or lc... the humidity shouldn't be a problem unless its at 0 but even then i don't think would be a problem. colder temps is best bet as contamination loves heat. good luck!!

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OfflineChris893
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Registered: 03/01/13
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Re: Filter Discs & Room Humidity? [Re: tko]
    #18444204 - 06/19/13 08:01 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

The humidity isn't going to affect your jars. You say that you boiled the rye for 10 minutes. Was this boiling preceded by a long overnight soak? I believe the minimum soak time is 4 hours without heat. If not, then your grains are not properly hydrated for mycelial growth. The boiling is done to help evaporate the water on the outside of the grain.

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Offlinecoffeehead
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Re: Filter Discs & Room Humidity? [Re: Chris893]
    #18446097 - 06/20/13 08:30 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Chris893 said:
The humidity isn't going to affect your jars. You say that you boiled the rye for 10 minutes. Was this boiling preceded by a long overnight soak? I believe the minimum soak time is 4 hours without heat. If not, then your grains are not properly hydrated for mycelial growth. The boiling is done to help evaporate the water on the outside of the grain.




Yes, I soaked the rye for about eight to 10 hours before boiling. I've tried boiling the rye for up to 30 minutes but that doesn't seem to make the grain any moister. Even boiling the rye to the point where a few grains split open doesn't seem to increase the moisture content.

When you see the difference between the jars started in a low humidity environment versus those started after raising the RH, along with the way the azurescens responded to re-hydration, it's pretty clear that I had a humidity problem.

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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Filter Discs & Room Humidity? [Re: coffeehead]
    #18446470 - 06/20/13 10:23 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

RH has nothing to do with it. It's coincidence. Your timeline is about right for spores to germinate and show growth. You just happen to have bought a humidifier at the same time.

As was said, you shouldn't ever be rehydrating jars. You should start over, getting your moisture right the first time.


--------------------
Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

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Offlinecoffeehead
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Re: Filter Discs & Room Humidity? [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #18446648 - 06/20/13 11:18 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
RH has nothing to do with it. It's coincidence. Your timeline is about right for spores to germinate and show growth. You just happen to have bought a humidifier at the same time.

As was said, you shouldn't ever be rehydrating jars. You should start over, getting your moisture right the first time.




10 days with no signs of growth after inoculation *is not* about a right timeline, especially since I inoculated each half pint jar with 2 ml of spore solution and kept all of the other parameters (temp and light) perfect.

Also, how do I go about "getting your moisture right the first time"? I boiled the grain the proper amount of time, dried it only briefly (no more than five minutes), and put it in the jars while it was still so hot I had to wear gloves. In other words, I followed directions to a T.

What else can I do to get the moisture "right the first time"? If there is something I can do it must be some secret not posted here!

Also, why do you suggest I throw away 10 now perfectly good jars and start over again? It has taken me at least a month to grow my  azurescens to the point where I can use them to inoculate bulk wood chips. And you recommend I throw 'em out and start over?

Please explain your reasoning.

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Invisible36fuckin5
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Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,097
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Re: Filter Discs & Room Humidity? [Re: coffeehead]
    #18446806 - 06/20/13 12:07 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

coffeehead said:10 days with no signs of growth after inoculation *is not* about a right timeline, especially since I inoculated each half pint jar with 2 ml of spore solution and kept all of the other parameters (temp and light) perfect.




Yes it is. It can easily take up to 2 weeks for spores to germinate.

Quote:

Also, how do I go about "getting your moisture right the first time"? I boiled the grain the proper amount of time, dried it only briefly (no more than five minutes), and put it in the jars while it was still so hot I had to wear gloves. In other words, I followed directions to a T.




You tweak things to make them work for you. IDK exactly what you'll have to do, but if things are stalling from being too dry they're not right.

Quote:

Also, why do you suggest I throw away 10 now perfectly good jars and start over again? It has taken me at least a month to grow my  azurescens to the point where I can use them to inoculate bulk wood chips. And you recommend I throw 'em out and start over?

Please explain your reasoning.




Because if there's not enough water in there to get it colonized properly, there's damn sure not gonna be enough when it comes time to fruit.

It's much better to wait an extra month to start with something as healthy as possible than to wait a year to find out you fucked up in the grain step.


--------------------
Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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