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Offlinejjbigbuds
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WBS is for the birds
    #18442625 - 06/19/13 02:12 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Dear diary-- I forgot what a pain in the ass wild bird seed is to get clean.

Today I realized I was in that spot with a lot of dirty jars, not a lot of spawn, a bag of birdseed in the garage, some time on my hands and decided to get to work.

I've been using wheat and rye for quite some time and now realize I've been completely spoiled. I used to use WBS all the time and simply forgot the endless rinse, the sunflower seeds, the endless rinse. I've ended up with a good product, but man, what a pain compared to using bulk grains sold at the supermarket. It was so traumatic that I busted out a bird feeder for the rest of the WBS and made a trip for 10lb of hard winter wheat berries while the WBS was soaking.


--------------------
Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality.
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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: WBS is for the birds [Re: jjbigbuds]
    #18442640 - 06/19/13 02:14 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I think you might have just got some grain that was at the bottom of the pile before it got bagged.

My first bag of WBS was like that, full of dust and sticks. dirty was an understatement, caused me lots of toruble.

Every bag i have gotten since then has been super clean, not a spot of dust in the bag. I just rinse it a couple of times, pour it into a pot of boiling water and take of the heat, leave for an hour. Drain and rinse a couple more times and let drain fully for a few hours.


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Offlinejjbigbuds
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Re: WBS is for the birds [Re: veda_sticks]
    #18442669 - 06/19/13 02:20 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

You might be getting that ultra clean British bird seed-- this stuff was the bargin brand stuff...and it wasn't even so much dirt as all the junk coming off the seed itself (the husks and other bio matter that turns into glue down the road). Anyway, of course, I forgot to put any gypsum in there so when I drained the WBS it felt all gooey compared to wheat/rye berries... with the berries I buy, it's one rinse, soak, boil for 10, drain, dry, pc.

This was just a good reminder to me of how easy it is to use grains.


--------------------
Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality.
- Jules de Gautier

Hey Noobs: Afraid of agar? Don't be. Read No-Pour Agar Tek

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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: WBS is for the birds [Re: jjbigbuds]
    #18442683 - 06/19/13 02:22 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

jjbigbuds said:
You might be getting that ultra clean British bird seed-- this stuff was the bargin brand stuff...and it wasn't even so much dirt as all the junk coming off the seed itself (the husks and other bio matter that turns into glue down the road). Anyway, of course, I forgot to put any gypsum in there so when I drained the WBS it felt all gooey compared to wheat/rye berries... with the berries I buy, it's one rinse, soak, boil for 10, drain, dry, pc.

This was just a good reminder to me of how easy it is to use grains.




it is super clean and its not even expensive, infact its the cheapest i can find. 85p for 1.5kg bag.

I found that a 24 hour soak had alraedy made the grains pretty soft and once simmered for 5 minutes alot of grains burst. Even with the clean grain i had mushy grains that compressed at the bottom of the jar. which wouldnt colinise unless i shook the jar multiple times during colinisation.

thats why i switched to foomans wbs tek, which resulted in nice hydrated grains that wernt mushy and fairly dry on the outside.


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek

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OfflineCMOS
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Re: WBS is for the birds [Re: veda_sticks]
    #18442719 - 06/19/13 02:29 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

yeah I barely simmer my WBS at all, if I do I'll get burst grains and a starchy sticky mess.

Mine is never normally that dirty, I get a couple different brands too. I just leave most the sunflower seeds in that don't float off when rinsing.


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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: WBS is for the birds [Re: CMOS]
    #18442726 - 06/19/13 02:30 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

CMOS said:
yeah I barely simmer my WBS at all, if I do I'll get burst grains and a starchy sticky mess.

Mine is never normally that dirty, I get a couple different brands too. I just leave most the sunflower seeds in that don't float off when rinsing.




hows yours after the soak, mine was pretty soft and fairly mushy before the simmer.

Hence going with foomans method


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek

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InvisibleTranscendingLife
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Re: WBS is for the birds [Re: jjbigbuds]
    #18442746 - 06/19/13 02:35 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

jjbigbuds said:


This was just a good reminder to me of how easy it is to use grains.




:archiebunker: Yet you're sitting here bitching about how difficult WBS is.
WBS is a grain :wow:
& it's just as easy as rye.


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OfflineCMOS
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Re: WBS is for the birds [Re: veda_sticks]
    #18442783 - 06/19/13 02:42 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah there pretty soft before the simmer.

I hadn't seen Fooman's WBS prep, I'll try that out some time.  If I wanted to add coffee and gypsum it would be during the boil right?


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InvisibleTranscendingLife
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Re: WBS is for the birds [Re: CMOS]
    #18442791 - 06/19/13 02:43 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

before the soak.
Add coffee & gypsum then your hot water then your grains.


--------------------
AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
:sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop::wow:How I Do EVERYTHING:wow::sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop:
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth

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OfflineCMOS
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Re: WBS is for the birds [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #18442830 - 06/19/13 02:53 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I was looking at his WBS method, and it looks like he doesn't do a soak at all.  He just starts off with a hot steep then goes straight to drain after that.  So if you were adding coffee + gypsum this would really be the only stage too, while its boiling just before grains are added.


Maybe I'm looking at the wrong link...
Fooman WBS Method


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InvisibleTranscendingLife
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Re: WBS is for the birds [Re: CMOS]
    #18442836 - 06/19/13 02:55 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Yes. Sorry. wasn't looking at his tek.


--------------------
AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
:sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop::wow:How I Do EVERYTHING:wow::sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop:
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth

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Invisible8ow8
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Re: WBS is for the birds [Re: veda_sticks]
    #18442841 - 06/19/13 02:57 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

veda_sticks said:
Quote:

CMOS said:
yeah I barely simmer my WBS at all, if I do I'll get burst grains and a starchy sticky mess.

Mine is never normally that dirty, I get a couple different brands too. I just leave most the sunflower seeds in that don't float off when rinsing.




hows yours after the soak, mine was pretty soft and fairly mushy before the simmer.

Hence going with foomans method





Same here - pretty soft. I've cut down the simmer time to  a minute or two and it works great.


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Offlinejjbigbuds
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Re: WBS is for the birds [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #18443755 - 06/19/13 06:14 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Indeed, WBS is a grain, quite right. I should have said something like, 'single strain grain berries' or similar... further, I'm sure there's lots of dirty grain berries out there, but the stuff I get is .85 a lb and clean as a whistle--and because I'm so used to working with it, modifying my tek to get perfect WBS was more demanding than I would have thought (as I said, I used nothing but WBS for years, still, seem to have forgotten everything about it).

No biggie either way; I've had super good results with WBS, and that's what really matters. Still, since my preferred 'berry grain' is actually cheaper than the WBS, that's what I'll be sticking with from now on.


--------------------
Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality.
- Jules de Gautier

Hey Noobs: Afraid of agar? Don't be. Read No-Pour Agar Tek

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Offlineganjfather
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Re: WBS is for the birds [Re: jjbigbuds]
    #18443849 - 06/19/13 06:38 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I find WBS to be pretty darn easy. Plus at $8 for a 20lb bag, you can't go wrong.

I've found that boiling is pretty unnecessary and does more harm than not. I just get the water up to 200F, then dump it into the strainer and steam dry. Works wonders and my WBS has the perfect water content. I also leave the sunflower seeds + corn in. I don't see peoples excessive need to remove those, it all colonizes just fine.


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: WBS is for the birds [Re: ganjfather]
    #18443979 - 06/19/13 07:08 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I don't even heat my WBS anymore, just soak for 24hrs in hot tap water, then strain for 20 minutes and fill my jars.

I remove them as soon as the pressure drops and shake them a few times as they cool, and the next day, I have perfectly hydrated grains, that roll around in the jars like BBs.

Edited by PussyFart (06/19/13 07:09 PM)

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Invisible8ow8
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Re: WBS is for the birds [Re: PussyFart]
    #18446200 - 06/20/13 09:14 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
I don't even heat my WBS anymore, just soak for 24hrs in hot tap water, then strain for 20 minutes and fill my jars.

I remove them as soon as the pressure drops and shake them a few times as they cool, and the next day, I have perfectly hydrated grains, that roll around in the jars like BBs.





No kidding!

I'll be trying that next round! :mushroom2:


--------------------
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InvisibleTranscendingLife
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Re: WBS is for the birds [Re: PussyFart]
    #18446268 - 06/20/13 09:36 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

jjbigbuds said:
Indeed, WBS is a grain, quite right. I should have said something like, 'single strain grain berries' or similar... further, I'm sure there's lots of dirty grain berries out there, but the stuff I get is .85 a lb and clean as a whistle--and because I'm so used to working with it, modifying my tek to get perfect WBS was more demanding than I would have thought (as I said, I used nothing but WBS for years, still, seem to have forgotten everything about it).

No biggie either way; I've had super good results with WBS, and that's what really matters. Still, since my preferred 'berry grain' is actually cheaper than the WBS, that's what I'll be sticking with from now on.




Just bustin' your balls, buddy.

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:

I remove them as soon as the pressure drops





I do not recommend this.
It can cause jars to break, excessive rushing of air into the PC thus dirty air permeating your filters.
Letting your PC cool naturally over night or for several hours is the best way, IME.


--------------------
AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
:sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop::wow:How I Do EVERYTHING:wow::sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop:
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth

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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: WBS is for the birds [Re: PussyFart]
    #18446900 - 06/20/13 12:27 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
I don't even heat my WBS anymore, just soak for 24hrs in hot tap water, then strain for 20 minutes and fill my jars.




This works, but I find that you can get a little more water in it by carefully simmering. Since my grain is 1/3 of my substrate, I want all the water I can get into it.

Also, another little trick is to change your water out a few times during the soak to keep it hot. You'll get much more water in your grain like that.


--------------------
Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: WBS is for the birds [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #18446957 - 06/20/13 12:39 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

TranscendingLife said:
Quote:

Notahacker420 said:

I remove them as soon as the pressure drops





I do not recommend this.
It can cause jars to break, excessive rushing of air into the PC thus dirty air permeating your filters.
Letting your PC cool naturally over night or for several hours is the best way, IME.



Been doing this since I started grains....haven't ran into a problem yet...

If I let my PC cool overnight before I remove my quart jars, it would take me a week to PC 120 jars, lol.

And if dirty air gets past the SFD because of this, that does not say much about the integrity of SFDs.

:shrug:  To each his own...

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InvisibleTranscendingLife
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Re: WBS is for the birds [Re: PussyFart]
    #18446962 - 06/20/13 12:40 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

It's the strong rushing in of air via the forced exchange of pressure.
SFDs are the best filters around, but you can still screw up with them.


--------------------
AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
:sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop::wow:How I Do EVERYTHING:wow::sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop:
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth

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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: WBS is for the birds [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #18446997 - 06/20/13 12:47 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

TranscendingLife said:
It's the strong rushing in of air via the forced exchange of pressure.



But there is no pressure differential because I wait for the pressure to drop in the PC, specifically so this would not happen....

I see what you mean, but once the pressure drops, and I am able to open the PC safely, there isn't really a strong rushing in of air.

It's really not that big of a deal IME.  Done over 500 jars like this so far, not one busted or cracked jar, and not really any pre-inoculant contams either.

Control jars stay contam free for 3-4 weeks for me no problem, every time.

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InvisibleTranscendingLife
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Re: WBS is for the birds [Re: PussyFart]
    #18447017 - 06/20/13 12:51 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

If the PC has just hit 0 on the pressure gauge, there's still a bit of pressure in there due to the heat.
Just like on sterilizers, you can't just go and open the toggle valve even after a 6 hour cool down.


--------------------
AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
:sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop::wow:How I Do EVERYTHING:wow::sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop:
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth

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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: WBS is for the birds [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #18447038 - 06/20/13 12:54 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

IDK, I do the same as NAH and I don't get contams either. There may be a tiny bit of pressure, but it's not enough to matter IME.


--------------------
Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

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