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blthirteenre



Registered: 06/10/12
Posts: 430
Loc: New York
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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IS THERE A REASON PEOPLE DON'T MIX SPAWN AROUND SUBSTRATE?
#18441517 - 06/19/13 09:34 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hello. I am making my third monotub this growing season with a brick of coir, 4.5q water, 2q verm, and ~8q spawn (rye grain, MS cambodian). My substrate is almost done pasteurizing and I am about to mix the spawn with the substrate.
In almost all of the teks done by trusted cultivators, people will dump 1/2 substrate in tub, make a layer of spawn, then dump the rest of the substrate (and some save 1 jar for top layer).
My question is, why don't people mix the grain all throughout the substrate? Why do people keep only a layer in the middle? Wouldn't mixing it around speed up colonization times?
I wanted people's input because I can't find an explanation, and hopefully someone can help me to understand so that I can make the right choice.
Thanks!
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stonesun
Sclerotia Aficionado




Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 5,444
Loc: 64º08'00"N 21º56'00"W
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Re: IS THERE A REASON PEOPLE DON'T MIX SPAWN AROUND SUBSTRATE? [Re: blthirteenre]
#18441539 - 06/19/13 09:44 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
blthirteenre said: My question is, why don't people mix the grain all throughout the substrate?
They do. Actually I think most prefer to mix instead of layer.
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: IS THERE A REASON PEOPLE DON'T MIX SPAWN AROUND SUBSTRATE? [Re: stonesun]
#18441547 - 06/19/13 09:47 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
stonesun said:
Quote:
blthirteenre said: My question is, why don't people mix the grain all throughout the substrate?
They do. Actually I think most prefer to mix instead of layer.

Here's how I spawn to a mono.
Mixing evenly will bring your colonization times down significantly.
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Chris893
The Lurker

Registered: 03/01/13
Posts: 209
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: IS THERE A REASON PEOPLE DON'T MIX SPAWN AROUND SUBSTRATE? [Re: stonesun]
#18441561 - 06/19/13 09:49 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think layering is done because it speeds colonization times but I don't have a reference off the top of my head. I keep thinking of watching RR fill the poly tube and laundry basket
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blthirteenre



Registered: 06/10/12
Posts: 430
Loc: New York
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: IS THERE A REASON PEOPLE DON'T MIX SPAWN AROUND SUBSTRATE? [Re: Chris893]
#18441579 - 06/19/13 09:53 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Got it. I could have sworn I read your tek, FrankHorrigan, but I must have misunderstood.. Thanks, everyone!
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MattyMushies
[_CLOSET NERD_]

Registered: 05/27/13
Posts: 90
Loc: Paradise
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: IS THERE A REASON PEOPLE DON'T MIX SPAWN AROUND SUBSTRATE? [Re: Chris893]
#18441581 - 06/19/13 09:53 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Mix it thoroughly and be completed satisfied.
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TranscendingLife
I Don't Need a Life to Live



Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 21,627
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Re: IS THERE A REASON PEOPLE DON'T MIX SPAWN AROUND SUBSTRATE? [Re: Chris893]
#18441631 - 06/19/13 10:06 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said:
Quote:
stonesun said:
Quote:
blthirteenre said: My question is, why don't people mix the grain all throughout the substrate?
They do. Actually I think most prefer to mix instead of layer.

Here's how I spawn to a mono.
Mixing evenly will bring your colonization times down significantly.

Quote:
Chris893 said: I think layering is done because it speeds colonization times but I don't have a reference off the top of my head. I keep thinking of watching RR fill the poly tube and laundry basket
It does the opposite. RR layers in the laundry basket so the spawn won't contam during colonization. Same for the "tube" of straw & oyster spawn. We're using fully sealed totes. so exposed grains aren't a problem.
My Monotub tek
-------------------- AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
      How I Do EVERYTHING     
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth
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36fuckin5
Alchemycologist


Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,097
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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Re: IS THERE A REASON PEOPLE DON'T MIX SPAWN AROUND SUBSTRATE? [Re: TranscendingLife]
#18441677 - 06/19/13 10:21 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
TranscendingLife said:
Quote:
FrankHorrigan said:
Quote:
stonesun said:
Quote:
blthirteenre said: My question is, why don't people mix the grain all throughout the substrate?
They do. Actually I think most prefer to mix instead of layer.

Here's how I spawn to a mono.
Mixing evenly will bring your colonization times down significantly.

Quote:
Chris893 said: I think layering is done because it speeds colonization times but I don't have a reference off the top of my head. I keep thinking of watching RR fill the poly tube and laundry basket
It does the opposite. RR layers in the laundry basket so the spawn won't contam during colonization. Same for the "tube" of straw & oyster spawn. We're using fully sealed totes. so exposed grains aren't a problem.
My Monotub tek

And I don't use a top layer. IME, it doesn't want to colonize and doesn't help anything. I want my sub 100% white.
-------------------- Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.
bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.
These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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blthirteenre



Registered: 06/10/12
Posts: 430
Loc: New York
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: IS THERE A REASON PEOPLE DON'T MIX SPAWN AROUND SUBSTRATE? [Re: 36fuckin5]
#18441715 - 06/19/13 10:33 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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All of this information is beyond useful.
TranscendingLife: I actually looked thru your gallery of pictures and enjoyed them very much. That cigarette butt one is especially interesting.
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TranscendingLife
I Don't Need a Life to Live



Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 21,627
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Re: IS THERE A REASON PEOPLE DON'T MIX SPAWN AROUND SUBSTRATE? [Re: blthirteenre]
#18441746 - 06/19/13 10:40 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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-------------------- AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
      How I Do EVERYTHING     
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth
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blthirteenre



Registered: 06/10/12
Posts: 430
Loc: New York
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: IS THERE A REASON PEOPLE DON'T MIX SPAWN AROUND SUBSTRATE? [Re: TranscendingLife]
#18441811 - 06/19/13 10:59 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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i will be browsing. thanks very much!
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: IS THERE A REASON PEOPLE DON'T MIX SPAWN AROUND SUBSTRATE? [Re: blthirteenre]
#18441853 - 06/19/13 11:09 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
blthirteenre said: Got it. I could have sworn I read your tek, FrankHorrigan, but I must have misunderstood.. Thanks, everyone!
I can see how you might have misread 
I put half my sub down, pour my 8-9qts of colonized grain in, and put the other half on top. I smooth out each layer before pouring the next and then I mix it all together.
Layering then mixing gives me a much more even mix in much less time I find.
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blthirteenre



Registered: 06/10/12
Posts: 430
Loc: New York
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: IS THERE A REASON PEOPLE DON'T MIX SPAWN AROUND SUBSTRATE? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18442052 - 06/19/13 12:02 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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yes! that makes sense. in my past tubs, i have put all the substrate in and then all of the grain in, mix it, and then realize there are quart-dense spawn chunks that haven't been mixed. your layer method does make sense to me.
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TranscendingLife
I Don't Need a Life to Live



Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 21,627
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Re: IS THERE A REASON PEOPLE DON'T MIX SPAWN AROUND SUBSTRATE? [Re: blthirteenre]
#18442339 - 06/19/13 01:10 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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If you're spawn isn't broken up properly, just break it up with your hand when spawning to bulk. I get chunks of coir & spawn when spawning to bulk all the time.
-------------------- AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
      How I Do EVERYTHING     
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth
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blthirteenre



Registered: 06/10/12
Posts: 430
Loc: New York
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: IS THERE A REASON PEOPLE DON'T MIX SPAWN AROUND SUBSTRATE? [Re: TranscendingLife]
#18442753 - 06/19/13 02:37 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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no, what i meant was when dumping the 8 quarts worth of spawn into the coir/verm, because i never use layers, i will mix it around and still find, like, a whole quart worth of grain in the corner that has no coir mixed within it at all, and that is why i can see the layering technique to be useful: because it is already divided amongst the tub
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TranscendingLife
I Don't Need a Life to Live



Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 21,627
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Re: IS THERE A REASON PEOPLE DON'T MIX SPAWN AROUND SUBSTRATE? [Re: blthirteenre]
#18442767 - 06/19/13 02:40 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Then you're not mixing properly. Layering then mixing won't help that. I make sure to get deep into the corners of the totes.
-------------------- AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
      How I Do EVERYTHING     
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 7 months, 28 days
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Re: IS THERE A REASON PEOPLE DON'T MIX SPAWN AROUND SUBSTRATE? [Re: blthirteenre]
#18442772 - 06/19/13 02:41 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Mycellium grows outward in a 3D spherical pattern, from every inoculation point.
Mixing the grains evenly with the bulk substrate takes full advantage of every inoculation point, layering does not.
It would be easy for a tub to colonize in under 10 days when mixed evenly.
It would be easy for a tub that has been layered to take 3 weeks to fully colonize.
It's your call really, but layering is so 1999.
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT!
A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD,
SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List,
EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE
*** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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blthirteenre



Registered: 06/10/12
Posts: 430
Loc: New York
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: IS THERE A REASON PEOPLE DON'T MIX SPAWN AROUND SUBSTRATE? [Re: PussyFart]
#18442806 - 06/19/13 02:47 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well, I did the tub hours ago, and i mixed the spawn around and definitely didn't layer. Last tub I did a few weeks ago took 5 days to get to 100% so I just did what I did last time.
If you have 8 quart jars with grain, why is it considered 8 quarts within a ratio if they're only filled 2/3-3/4 of the way? why aren't 8 quart jars considered 6 quarts of spawn within the ratio? Is this already how it is equated?
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Chris893
The Lurker

Registered: 03/01/13
Posts: 209
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: IS THERE A REASON PEOPLE DON'T MIX SPAWN AROUND SUBSTRATE? [Re: PussyFart]
#18442815 - 06/19/13 02:49 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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TranscendingLife: thanks for the explanation, I'm going to have to try it next time I do a tray or tub
FrankHorrigan: check your pm
Thanks
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TranscendingLife
I Don't Need a Life to Live



Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 21,627
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Re: IS THERE A REASON PEOPLE DON'T MIX SPAWN AROUND SUBSTRATE? [Re: blthirteenre]
#18442820 - 06/19/13 02:49 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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No. and I make sure to note to people that 1 quart of spawn is NOT a full quart. But we don't make 10 quarts of spawn then spawn them to bulk and say we spawned 8 or 7 quarts.
-------------------- AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
      How I Do EVERYTHING     
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth
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