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Anonymous

Someone please tell me our president isnt this horrible.
    #1843598 - 08/23/03 04:27 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

http://www.wage-slave.org/scorecard.html

Resident conservatives and Bush supporters, please rebut the content of this website, and give us doubters some faith in the current administration.

If this shit is true, I am deeply concerned about the future of our nation.

And if this has already been posted, forgive me.

edit; i cant type.


Edited by Anonymous (08/23/03 04:29 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: Someone please tell me our president isnt this horrible. [Re: ]
    #1843620 - 08/23/03 04:44 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

The National Rifle Association believes that if guns were illegal, only criminals would own guns. Government programs that buy back guns from the community (at prices well under their market value) work on similar logic; after all, what law-abiding gun owner would want to give up his $400 gun for $50? They get thousands of guns off the street--20,000 in their first year alone. Now President Bush cuts funding to these programs at the behest of the NRA, payback for all those campaign contributions.

The thing about Constitutional rights is that there can be absolutely no exceptions. Once you start making exceptions, even "just this one time," it opens the door to future abuses. Today we're doing it in the name of preventing terrorism, tomorrow it's the War on Drugs, and eventually they're denying you a lawyer when they charge you with sedition. We have to protect our rights at all costs, because any attack on them, no matter how innocuous, can be the beginning of the end. The right of a suspected criminal to have an attorney is clearly stated in the Sixth Amendment to the Constitution. The courts long ago recognized that a suspect must be allowed to speak freely to counsel in order for that Constitutional right to be fulfilled. Now, in its clearest violation of both the letter and the spirit of that amendment, the Bush administration announces that it will monitor calls between people suspected of links to terrorists and their lawyers. This means those suspects cannot speak freely to their lawyers and are being denied the right to counsel. What's the point in defending freedom abroad if we're denying it at home?

Airport screeners make an average of $6.75 per hour. They have a turnover rate of 126 percent a year, meaning that virtually none of them stays on the job for long. With those kinds of working conditions, is it any surprise that a man made it onto a plane with a gun a few days ago, in what is supposed to be a time of heightened security? Low-wage workers are not motivated to do a great job. (Have you ever noticed that fast-food employees never seem as enthusiastic in real life as they are in commercials?) So when Bush urges Congress not to make airport security a federal law-enforcement concern, he's directly endangering the lives of millions of American air travelers--just in time for the holidays!

A secret court located in the Justice Department decides whether or not Americans can be wiretapped. There's no accountability and no appeal. How could you appeal, after all, when you don't even know you've been tapped? In the wake of the September 11 attacks, Attorney General John Ashcroft wants to make it even easier for the court, which in 23 years has disapproved exactly one surveillance request, to approve wiretaps and warrants. Ashcroft's proposal would expand the courts bailiwick; where it now deals solely with intelligence matters, he would have it expand to criminal investigations. Given that the court was created to prevent Nixonian abuses of the Justice Department revealed by the Watergate investigation, Ashcroft's proposals seem to be a direct threat to civil rights.

Everyone says if we let the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon change our lives, then the terrorists have won. Certainly any restrictions to our freedoms would be the worst victory we could hand them. Nevertheless, the president wants to assassinate foreign leaders, make it easier to tap our phones, and detain foreigners (wonder how they'll pick which ones). It sounds as though America is going to be a little less like America for a while.

Back in June, the president was speaking at a tax rally where protesters were forced to leave. (See 6-8-2001 below.) They were only allowed in designated "First Amendment areas," proving that in Bush's America, the First Amendment only counts where he says it counts. Now on a trip to the Rocky Mountain National Park, Bush does it again, staying in areas no less than a mile away from designated First Amendment areas.
FIRST FUCKING AMENDMENT AREAS?! WHAT THE FUCK?!?!
WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK IS GOING ON HERE YOU GUYS?


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Offlinewingnutx
Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,268
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
Re: Someone please tell me our president isnt this horrible. [Re: ]
    #1843623 - 08/23/03 04:46 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bush creates a system where people can invest in the possibility of terror attacks and international upheaval.




Wrong. This was proposed by Adm Poindexter of DARPA (who invented the internet you are using right now), and was squashed as soon as it became public. Poindexter had his third strike and was fired.

This is deliberately misattributed to Bush.

Quote:

Bush threatens veto if Congress overturns new FCC rules.




Beats me. I don't consider it pressing enough to look it up.

Quote:

Bush exposes an undercover CIA agent in an act of petty vengeance.




Wrong. Unnamed, so-called "Senior Officials" expose her to a reporter.

This is deliberately misattributed to Bush.

Quote:

Bush continues to push for new nuclear weapons.




True. Basically reconfiguring tactical nukes to be used as burrowing penetrators to take out hardened bunkers. I have no problem with this.

Quote:

Bush proposes weakening Head Start.




Wrong, according to the very text you refer to. Bush proposes turning it over to the states. States may weaken or strenghten Head Start, but it is not a federal matter.



I have plenty of issues with Bush, but they do not include the above. Please slag him for something he's actually responsible for, like steel tarriffs or something. Or the nukes thing, but you lose credibility on that by putting it in with the others.


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Offlinewingnutx
Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,268
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
Re: Someone please tell me our president isnt this horrible. [Re: ]
    #1843632 - 08/23/03 04:51 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

You have some valid issues, but you lump them together with all your other baggage. That's a great way to have them all ignored, good or bad.

For example, the 'patriot act' deserves to be completely overhauled, and in fact that is going on right now.

You slapped that on right after a non-starter like gun buybacks, though, which will totally blows the entire post.

Laundry-lists usually have one or two validpoints, but overall aren't worth it.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,712
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Someone please tell me our president isnt this horrible. [Re: wingnutx]
    #1843652 - 08/23/03 05:06 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Nicely done on your response to the Bush site.

You are once again, a voice of common sense in a poor thread.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineTLaL0c
Stranger
Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 5
Last seen: 13 years, 19 days
Re: Someone please tell me our president isnt this horrible. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1843667 - 08/23/03 05:19 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

"Bush creates a system where people can invest in the possibility of terror attacks and international upheaval."

Its funny how the same people that think Bush is a complete moron also think he does EVERTHING. Prolific moron isn?t he? (p.s. I voted for Harry Brown, so my opinion isn't that of a republican but an open minded individual.)

I don?t understand the flap over the terror betting / terror threat stock market. I thought it was a brilliant idea, having security officials motivated by the idea of making extra money trying to predict future attacks and such. It wasn?t about making money, but about having very specialized people making guesses with the motivation of personal gain, i.e. capitalism, the most successful economic system in history.
 
Anyone that thinks it's evil I believe really thinks making money is evil.  THE WORKERS CONTROL THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION!... pssh. :rolleyes: 


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Offlinewingnutx
Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,268
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
Re: Someone please tell me our president isnt this horrible. [Re: TLaL0c]
    #1843684 - 08/23/03 05:29 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Harry Brown didn't make it on the ballot in Arizona. We had L. Neil Smith, the scifi writer.

Apparently AZ Libertarians are a bunch of fucking malcontents even by party standards :smile:


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Anonymous

Re: Someone please tell me our president isnt this horrible. [Re: ]
    #1843773 - 08/23/03 06:25 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

that site is soaking in liberal bias.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Someone please tell me our president isnt this horrible. [Re: ]
    #1843907 - 08/23/03 07:56 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Of course it is. That doesn't make the allegations false, especially considering the fact that they provided links for each one.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: Someone please tell me our president isnt this horrible. [Re: silversoul7]
    #1843916 - 08/23/03 08:03 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

if i remember correctly "cutting taxes" is listed in at least one place as an evil act.

cutting overtime pay was one also.... if you read the news story, the details of the matter was that he cut overtime pay to those making over $65,000 a year or in executive, or management positions. hardly sounds 'evil' to me...

also... bush was not responsible for the terror stock market. that's just silllllly.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Someone please tell me our president isnt this horrible. [Re: ]
    #1843918 - 08/23/03 08:05 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Right, but you can still find the information needed throught the links they provide(which are usually credible sources), so you can decide for yourself how accurate they were.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineSev
Astropath
Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 1,426
Loc: NY
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
Re: Someone please tell me our president isnt this horrible. [Re: ]
    #1844964 - 08/24/03 07:15 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:
if i remember correctly "cutting taxes" is listed in at least one place as an evil act.




I consider it to be so, considering the way that he did it, the time he did it, and all the other intervening factors.
Quote:


cutting overtime pay was one also.... if you read the news story, the details of the matter was that he cut overtime pay to those making over $65,000 a year or in executive, or management positions. hardly sounds 'evil' to me...




Actually, it's anyone with 'a position of responsibility' who can be required to be salaried and work unlimited overtime. The guys who pump your gas could easily be classified as people with 'a position of responsiblity.'

Furthermore, it allows workers to take either overtime pay or comp time when they work overtime. I already know people who've been pretty much forced by their employers to take comp time that they'll probably never get a chance to use, which is exactly the reason that people were opposed to this in the first place.


--------------------
"Do we want the stars? We can have them. Can we borrow cups of fire from the sun? We can and must and light the world." --"On the Shoulders of Giants", Ray Bradbury

All of my posts are full of fiction and blatant lies.


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OfflineFileSoup
member
Registered: 08/09/03
Posts: 142
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Someone please tell me our president isnt this horrible. [Re: ]
    #1845784 - 08/24/03 05:50 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

"and eventually they're denying you a lawyer when they charge you with sedition"

What is sedition?

btw, that site is a bunch of BS.


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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 13 years, 19 days
Re: Someone please tell me our president isnt this horrible. [Re: FileSoup]
    #1845892 - 08/24/03 06:32 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

FileSoup said:
"and eventually they're denying you a lawyer when they charge you with sedition"

What is sedition?

btw, that site is a bunch of BS. 


Dude, I realize you're a newcomer here, but you're WAY behind the power curve.  Before you call BS on stuff like this, do a quick Google search.  Here's one of MANY articles confirming that we are denying lawyers to people accused of sedition.  And if you don't know what sedition means, check the online dictionary:wink:

This post is not a flame, just trying to providing you some answers.  :smile:   


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Someone please tell me our president isnt this horrible. [Re: Cornholio]
    #1845905 - 08/24/03 06:35 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Got another example. Here is an interview with his lawyer.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,197611,00.html


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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 13 years, 19 days
Re: Someone please tell me our president isnt this horrible. [Re: shakta]
    #1846123 - 08/24/03 08:09 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

He was, in fact, denied a lawyer for 2 months after requesting one on 2 Dec. All the while, he was being interrogated and tortured without ever even being arraigned.



He was finally allowed to speak to a lawyer on 24 Jan (one not of his choosing), after large public outcry (nice to know my letters had some effect).

Even a conservative writer said the whole thing stinks.



More if anyone's interested...


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Someone please tell me our president isnt this horrible. [Re: Cornholio]
    #1846155 - 08/24/03 08:20 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Tortured? Any proof of that? Good for the conservative writer. I could care less. I think the DOJ pussed out on this one. He should have been taken out and shot in the head for treason. I think he got off light. His family ended up getting him a good lawyer didn't they?

Now to the rest of the people in his situation at Gitmo. They have no rights under our Constitution. They are not US citizens. The fact that they were not uniformed soldiers affords them no rights under the Geneva conventions. In truth they are being treated pretty well under the circumstances. They are starting to be tried for their crimes. A couple of teenaged prisoners are going to be transferred out and probably released soon. They were being forced to fight by the Taliban, and have given us good intelligence. One of the prisoners has said he likes it there. He was in a Russian prison before, and said that gitmo is a dream compared to that place.


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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 13 years, 19 days
Re: Someone please tell me our president isnt this horrible. [Re: shakta]
    #1846522 - 08/24/03 10:09 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

shakta said:
Tortured? Any proof of that?
There's plenty, but this will just turn into a semantics argument (liberal vs conservative definition of torture).  The picture I posted is pretty telling.

Good for the conservative writer. I could care less.
Of course not, he supports my point of view.

I think the DOJ pussed out on this one. He should have been taken out and shot in the head for treason. I think he got off light.
Let me quote the conservative writer, since I'm not sure if you fully understand what this case is really about:

"When Lindh went to Afghanistan he had no idea the U.S. would enter the war on the opposite side. Once the U.S. entered the fray, Lindh could not tell the Taliban he had changed his mind and simply leave. Afghans don?t trust one another, much less foreigners.

Once Lindh was captured, he could not talk to the CIA and expect to live when he was put back in a cell with the other prisoners. A person has a responsibility to preserve his own life.

It is a lie that Lindh "took up arms against his own country." The Taliban did not attack the U.S. The U.S. attacked the Taliban


And you think he deserved the death penalty without a trial???  :wtf:

"One of the prisoners has said he likes it there. He was in a Russian prison before, and said that gitmo is a dream compared to that place.
Hey all right!  We're better than Russia.  I feel much better now.  :rolleyes: 

(don't take my posts personally, I just enjoy debating with you, buddy!  :wink:)   


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Offlinewingnutx
Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,268
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
Re: Someone please tell me our president isnt this horrible. [Re: Cornholio]
    #1846596 - 08/24/03 10:30 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

The picture shows Linde restrained and blindfolded. That does not indicate torture, and is just common sense when someone is transporting a prisoner. By his own words the worst that happened to him is that he was cold while he was tied up.

I would reprimand the guy who took his picture, but it's pretty analogous to a 'perp walk'.


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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 13 years, 19 days
Re: Someone please tell me our president isnt this horrible. [Re: wingnutx]
    #1846656 - 08/24/03 10:49 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I guess being transported naked could tend to be a little cold!  :wink: 


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