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OfflineDeiymiyan
I AM

Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 656
Loc: Within the Realm of Imagi...
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Governmental Brainstorming
    #1843195 - 08/23/03 01:29 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Before this thread gets considered for removal... I'd like to argue that it IS Philosophically and Spiritually based.



Here is a simple question I bring to the table; I'd like to do a little brainstorming with everyone here..


Question : It IS possible that an organization can originate one day that satisfies everyone; what would the perfect government "look" like?





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Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..



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Offlinedomite
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Registered: 04/12/03
Posts: 2,978
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Re: Governmental Brainstorming [Re: Deiymiyan]
    #1843312 - 08/23/03 02:20 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I dont think anyone would argue with communism in its ideal final form, I just think people dont think it can get there in the first place.


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: Governmental Brainstorming [Re: Deiymiyan]
    #1843382 - 08/23/03 02:47 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I think it could, but people would have to be willing to let that kind of world exist. A free world, but that depends on people to do their part, and not be lazy. Really get out of life as much as you put in. This Goverment would have to be completeley truthful, and act as an organizing tool and not a means of control. WEll control... but like control as in organization control. Everyone would be accepted, people would have to obey certain human rights, those rights of all humans... But to work together to form the world they want. Instead of working against eachother. I think that would be the best system, it gives people the freedom to do whatever they want, BUT they have to realize the consequences of their actions and the desire for a good stable system depends on them to do their part.


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What?


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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
Re: Governmental Brainstorming [Re: Zero7a1]
    #1843566 - 08/23/03 04:07 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I'd like to see a world controlled by a tribal council of sorts, comprised of noblest of us, like artists and philosophers.


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The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
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Re: Governmental Brainstorming [Re: Malachi]
    #1843678 - 08/23/03 05:26 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

heh, that would be cool.


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What?


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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
Re: Governmental Brainstorming [Re: Zero7a1]
    #1843739 - 08/23/03 06:00 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Personally I think the native americans did it the best. they moved around as to not kill off the land as quickly as we're doing. each had a chiefd that they all RESPECTED. I haven't heard of too many mutinies concerning native americans.
As far as government is concerned, we need something simple. I think many can agree that politics is too tedious and corrupt. a perfect governemnt to me is one that doesn't have any heirarchy. One that is overlooked and ran by the people for the people. If we are to have to have a governemnt to serve us, we need to get rid of the media, which will never happen.


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
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Re: Governmental Brainstorming [Re: kaiowas]
    #1843854 - 08/23/03 07:09 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, the media does suck ballz. I think the only thing we should have, is some kind of network to send information to all people. I also agree about the politics and hierarchy issues, all bullshit. If this was a true democracy, we as people would be in check with those who make the decisisions. There wouldnt be an eternal beuracractic wait to get things changed, or at least mentioned. Forums to debate certain social issues concerning development. Each person who has there place would be in check by other people. Mr. Forum Moderator depends on the tech guys to get his messages who in turn get what they want because they work for mr forum moderator. Thats really a lack of control, but it is also total control. It means that each person depends on one another. I dont know, maybe that too far fetched, or to socialist or idealistic or whatever. But i dont know, that seems like a cool system to me. And most of all... more efficient structures for carrying out social cultural activities. Such as public meeting centers, housing, food etc. I think there could be a cool way for all of that too, and is my little corner for study... i think.


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What?


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OfflineSpokesman
The HighPhilosopher

Registered: 08/05/03
Posts: 847
Loc: New Jersey U.S.
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: Governmental Brainstorming [Re: Zero7a1]
    #1843894 - 08/23/03 07:44 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I think we should have never invented Cable/Stalite/Digital programing, TVs should have been made strickly to play videogames. This way thir wouldnt be a federal goverment but a local one, every city should run itself and there wouldnt be things like countries or what ever. Nuclear bombs would have never been used. I agree that the Native Americans did it the best, they were all about peace and maintaining our planet.... oh, and smoking weed on piece pipes around a camp fire, it should be a law. lol


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OfflineStrumpling
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Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
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Re: Governmental Brainstorming [Re: Deiymiyan]
    #1843968 - 08/23/03 08:42 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

"what would the perfect government 'look' like?"

The perfect government would be invisible


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: Governmental Brainstorming [Re: Strumpling]
    #1844106 - 08/23/03 09:55 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

That's good. :thumbup:


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,849
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Re: Governmental Brainstorming [Re: Zero7a1]
    #1845146 - 08/24/03 12:17 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Zero7a1 said:
Yes, the media does suck ballz. I think the only thing we should have, is some kind of network to send information to all people. I also agree about the politics and hierarchy issues, all bullshit. If this was a true democracy, we as people would be in check with those who make the decisisions. There wouldnt be an eternal beuracractic wait to get things changed, or at least mentioned. Forums to debate certain social issues concerning development. Each person who has there place would be in check by other people. Mr. Forum Moderator depends on the tech guys to get his messages who in turn get what they want because they work for mr forum moderator. Thats really a lack of control, but it is also total control. It means that each person depends on one another. I dont know, maybe that too far fetched, or to socialist or idealistic or whatever. But i dont know, that seems like a cool system to me. And most of all... more efficient structures for carrying out social cultural activities. Such as public meeting centers, housing, food etc. I think there could be a cool way for all of that too, and is my little corner for study... i think.




I was trying to propose this once. I couldn't really spell it out like you did, but this is what I was trying to say, I think...
Kudos to you, and it isn't to socialistic or idealistic. The only reason it is idealistic is because people label it as such because they do not think it possible.. fucking duh!, of course it is idealistic, because what is being described is the ideal! Just because something is ideal doesn't mean it is impossible, or that it should be dismissed, why naturally expect less than ideal?! hehe (I wasn't going off on you, by the way, just the lazy people who can't hold themselves or other systems to a high standard..)
Peace.
Peace.


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineStrumpling
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Registered: 10/11/02
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Re: Governmental Brainstorming [Re: Deiymiyan]
    #1845729 - 08/24/03 05:28 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I've always thought it would be a great idea to have some sort of "think-tank" type of thing which was "mandatory" just like Jury-Duty here in the United States, only this wouldn't be anything like jury-duty...

You would get a chance to talk with some representatives and other local strangers about the government on every scale and how you feel it could be improved or give any type of feedback you wish.. Then all of this data could be compiled and given to the government who would adjust things according to the public feedback..

Of course, just like voting though, we'd run into a problem where THE MEDIA would take over and GIVE YOU YOUR OPINION.


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

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Re: Governmental Brainstorming [Re: Strumpling]
    #1845743 - 08/24/03 05:35 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah, we definitely need more of a role than just electing them, writing them letters that they themselves mostly never even read, and then elect them once again... I mean, they watch their own states for public opinion, so they won't go too shy from their purpose in being there, but still.

The think-tank is a good idea. Anything that starts giving everyone more voice and opinion is a good idea.. the media might start getting involved, but maybe people could start blowing up their buildings.. hehe
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: Governmental Brainstorming [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1845826 - 08/24/03 06:05 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah man, i think we talked about this before. Was it the higher goals forum? Maybe something else, im not sure. I didnt think you were going off on me :wink:.  THats exactly true though about the ideals, its ideas! Brainstorming, thinking cap. If everyone was as devoted to thinking about their world, and adjusting their behavior and actions accordingly for positive change... All of those ideas i think would start to see some frutation. But, i think before you can convince people to change the way things are governed, controlled, you need to get them to think for themselves, to realize their decisions are of prime importance in getting any kind of efficient system going. Whether it be what were talking about, or some other issues involved.

Thats what i was thinking though... eventually maybe we wouldnt even need the media. It could be like a computerized voice that would just relay information, and you could access it on a global network. Cameras could go places, just be information. Not channeled, not reduced in facts. 


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What?


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: Governmental Brainstorming [Re: Zero7a1]
    #1845843 - 08/24/03 06:15 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

"It could be like a computerized voice that would just relay information, and you could access it on a global network. Cameras could go places, just be information. Not channeled, not reduced in facts."

yeah this is a cool idea - this seems to be what the internet is shaping into, as long as government doesn't start fucking with it (which is hear is VERY possible and VERY probable.. :frown:) - its like a nervous-system for the whole planet :smile:


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: Governmental Brainstorming [Re: Strumpling]
    #1846561 - 08/24/03 10:18 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

The internet will become its own territory. But what I think is important is for us to make a stance on this territory, free land. lol. It seems as if it is now the voice of mankind, uniting under one front, connecting all areas of the globe. This is our place to talk, this is our place to express, to show one another who we are... at least parts of us. I think it will be important to let the government know that this is our freedom of speech and to not let it be obstructed. We should be able to talk about whatever we want, whenever we want. Actions is a different issue, but as for information, it should be left to go where it pleases. Within reasonable limits you know, for the prosperity of the information itself and for others you know? I dont know, thats a trickey situation. Ive come to realize the complexity of mainting controlled freedom... i know that sounds like a contradiction. But it makes sense in a way if you apply it to prosperity. If everything is okay with everything else, and it is allowed to be free within certain limits, it will make positive growth. Like our cells, or plants, give them the freedom to grow, but dont let them grow in the wrong places... or dont let bugs in your house. something like that i dont know. And most of all allow the enviroment to transform and evolve the entity. Im really glad to see it where it is now, and i think its good, as long as security issues (computer software security issues) are met. Like protecting our hardware from flaws in software holes (ie virus's... ms blaster  :syringe: ) . People make an effort to keep it where it is, enhance, expand it. I think it could be really cool. But if it turns into a big brother screen... whats the point? I hope our goverment wouldnt decide to eliminate our freedom of speech... ( :confused: ) . 


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What?


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OfflineNapkinOfDoom
The CombatWombat

Registered: 11/30/02
Posts: 458
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
Re: Governmental Brainstorming [Re: Zero7a1]
    #1846625 - 08/24/03 10:41 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

there is no such thing as the perfect government....there will always be people that do not approve of the current system

to think otherwise is ludacrous

also...
Quote:

comprised of noblest of us



who is to say that artists and philosophers are noble? there are people that would say those people are fools and vice versa

the fact of the matter is that no one will ever agree on anything. people will always find something to argue over and fight wars over because that is what we are. humans as a group are the most primal of creatures. individually (most of us) are smart, logical, reasonable beings, but as a group, the mob mentality takes over. there is nothing that people like us can do but speculate and hypothesize over what the "perfect" government would be like. but if it fills us with hope to theorize about our personal utopia then why not?

i dont know....maybe my points aren't valid
after all its just a theory


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: Governmental Brainstorming [Re: NapkinOfDoom]
    #1846659 - 08/24/03 10:50 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

yeah man, as fireworks_god said, these are ideas. and what better way to make it to a better world, than by brainstorming ideas. People dont want to accept a world where everyone could fit in, cause they dont care about other people. I think most of this discussion besides the fact of the internet, as far as goverment is concerned, i think the ideal goverment would either be invisible, not bb, or be maintained soley at the discretion of the people on the basis that everyone agrees to certain parameters. There has to be some good cells out there right? If we cant decide on a healthy alternative, wont we all just get a social cancer and effectively  :syringe: :nut: ....  :nonono: .

Why wouldnt your ideas be valid bro?


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What?


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OfflineNapkinOfDoom
The CombatWombat

Registered: 11/30/02
Posts: 458
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
Re: Governmental Brainstorming [Re: Zero7a1]
    #1846675 - 08/24/03 10:53 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

there is truth in your fiction and blah rabble blah blah....ideas will float...some good some bad. not everyone might like what i'm saying...so the theory business was to protect me from an angry village mob with pitchforks and torches coming after my ass


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Anonymous

Re: Governmental Brainstorming [Re: Deiymiyan]
    #1846678 - 08/24/03 10:53 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I don't see anything wrong with this thread being here.  It's political philosophy:smile:


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