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OfflineJackthetripper7
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How come people can crumble and case without contams?
    #18420681 - 06/14/13 08:50 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I don't quite understand how people can just crumble their cakes and transfer them to a tub or whatever, without getting contams? can anyone explain this to me, I'd greatly appreciate it. I've always wanted to case but never fully understood it.


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Offlinekinkaku
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Re: How come people can crumble and case without contams? [Re: Jackthetripper7]
    #18420712 - 06/14/13 08:56 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

well when the cakes are fully colonized they're more contam resistant then when they are still colonizing.

and if you're doing a monotub then you have to pasteurize a bulk sub which doesn't kill the good contam fighting bacteria.

so that mixed with the fully colonized cakes gives you a margine of safety needed to mix up in the tub.:thumbup:

but in the end there is always a chance for contams no matter what you do.


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Invisiblemycomattie
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Re: How come people can crumble and case without contams? [Re: Jackthetripper7]
    #18420731 - 06/14/13 09:00 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Once fully colonized, the inoculant is very contam resistant.  Once crumbled and spawned, the bulk is relatively contam resistant - coir, verm, etc. and even the the less contam resistant bulk - poo and straw; the colonization speed of the healthy mycelium usually supersedes that of the contams.


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OfflineJackthetripper7
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Re: How come people can crumble and case without contams? [Re: kinkaku]
    #18420741 - 06/14/13 09:03 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

But wouldnt the cakes technically be re-colonizing if you crumbled them and broke their mycelial networks? Which would technically be an invitation for contams?


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Offlinekinkaku
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Re: How come people can crumble and case without contams? [Re: kinkaku]
    #18420751 - 06/14/13 09:06 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Jackthetripper7 said:
But wouldnt the cakes technically be re-colonizing if you crumbled them and broke their mycelial networks? Which would technically be an invitation for contams?





Quote:

kinkaku said:

and if you're doing a monotub then you have to pasteurize a bulk sub which doesn't kill the good contam fighting bacteria.





there is bacteria in the bulk sub that help fight contams.


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Invisiblemycomattie
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Re: How come people can crumble and case without contams? [Re: Jackthetripper7]
    #18420756 - 06/14/13 09:08 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I don't think they'd be recolonizing, rather repairing the broken mycelial network.  In most cases, at that point, the mycelium colonizes te sub quicker than the contams.


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OfflineJackthetripper7
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Re: How come people can crumble and case without contams? [Re: mycomattie]
    #18420809 - 06/14/13 09:24 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I see now. Pretty interesting stuff, maybe ill case one of my cakes as a test. Kinkaku, you said you have to pasteurize if you do a monotub? Would regular ol' sterilization cut it?


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Offlinemrmojoshroomin
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Re: How come people can crumble and case without contams? [Re: Jackthetripper7]
    #18420849 - 06/14/13 09:33 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Always pasteurize substrate not sterilize!!! If you sterilize it you kill the good, bad and the ugly. But if you pasteurize it, you leave the good to help fight the band and the ugly!!

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Invisiblemycomattie
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Re: How come people can crumble and case without contams? [Re: mrmojoshroomin]
    #18420859 - 06/14/13 09:34 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Also, casing and spawing to bulk is two different things.


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OfflineJackthetripper7
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Re: How come people can crumble and case without contams? [Re: mycomattie]
    #18422529 - 06/15/13 09:17 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I'm gonna do some reading up on the two, I'm fairly new to the hobby and have only had experience with pf style cakes. Hopefully in this new grow I can do some experimenting around, my first few grows I just wanted surefire ways to get my yield.


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OfflineJackthetripper7
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Re: How come people can crumble and case without contams? [Re: mycomattie]
    #18422590 - 06/15/13 09:43 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

So basically, casing is just providing a non-nutritive layer for the mycelium to colonize, and create more surface area. and spawning to bulk sub is basically the same as casing, except you add nutes? Is spawning to bulk more contaminate prone than casing?


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: How come people can crumble and case without contams? [Re: Jackthetripper7]
    #18422608 - 06/15/13 09:48 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Jackthetripper7 said:
So basically, casing is just providing a non-nutritive layer for the mycelium to colonize, and create more surface area. and spawning to bulk sub is basically the same as casing



No, a casing layer is a non nutritious top layer that usually gets applied to a fully colonized bulk substrate for moisture retention and pinning.

A bulk substrate is highly nutritious material, used to expand the mycelial network.

The 2 are completely different.  A casing layer should not fully colonize, and cubes do not need a casing layer.

Quote:

Jackthetripper7 said:
Is spawning to bulk more contaminate prone than casing?



No, not at all.

Fully colonized anything, and pasteurized bulk substrate material, are both contam resistant, to a degreee.

This is how we can spawn to bulk in open air.

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OfflineJackthetripper7
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Re: How come people can crumble and case without contams? [Re: PussyFart]
    #18422977 - 06/15/13 11:53 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

So, how do the potential contams get destroyed during pasteurization, if you're basically just letting them sit in water?


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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: How come people can crumble and case without contams? [Re: Jackthetripper7]
    #18422989 - 06/15/13 11:58 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Jackthetripper7 said:
So, how do the potential contams get destroyed during pasteurization, if you're basically just letting them sit in water?




Pasturisation temps kill molds and mold spores while allowing bacteria to survive. The bacterias that survive in bulk substrates make it difficult for any mold spores that get intrudced while spawning to germinate and grow.

After pasturisation you have a 2 week window for your mycelium to colinise, after 2 weeks its more susceptible for contaminations to get the uper hand.

Your not just sitting them in water, the substrate is in jars, which is in a hot water bath, which heats the substrate up. to between 140-160f. You leave it in that range for 1-2 hours which is enough exposure at those temps to pasturise it.

Look up pasturisation


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: How come people can crumble and case without contams? [Re: Jackthetripper7]
    #18422996 - 06/15/13 12:02 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Pasteurization is keeping the center of the substrate between 140F and 165F for 60-90 minutes.

This kills off any "harmful" contams, leaving only the "beneficial bacteria", which helps to protect the substrate against contams.

It doesn't just sit in water.

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OfflineJackthetripper7
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Re: How come people can crumble and case without contams? [Re: PussyFart]
    #18423992 - 06/15/13 04:07 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

So then what's the difference between pasteurization and sterilization? temps?


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Offlinetwistedty
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Re: How come people can crumble and case without contams? [Re: PussyFart]
    #18424001 - 06/15/13 04:09 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Jackthetripper7 said:
So then what's the difference between pasteurization and sterilization? temps?





Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Pasteurization is keeping the center of the substrate between 140F and 165F for 60-90 minutes.

This kills off any "harmful" contams, leaving only the "beneficial bacteria", which helps to protect the substrate against contams.

It doesn't just sit in water.



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OfflineJBoom21
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Re: How come people can crumble and case without contams? [Re: twistedty]
    #18424032 - 06/15/13 04:17 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Hey Jack! I recently just tried for the first time taking my fully colonized jars and shook them up into 6qt containers. I have had no problem with contam, two days after they were in the 6qt container the culture completely took over and it was ready for casing.

I made sure the area I was working in was clean. I took the same sterile procedure's as if you were going to do a G2G.

Check out my post,
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18422750


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