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cmich
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Registered: 06/01/13
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Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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WBS Jars
#18414392 - 06/13/13 04:00 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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I've grown using the PF tek without any difficulties what so ever. Normally I see mycelium growth within the first few days after inoculation in pint jars. Now I've decided to try a monotub.
I am using wildbird seed in 1 qt jars. The lids have a 1/4" innoc hole with red RTV with 4 small GE holes with micropore tape over them. The wildbird seed contains Milo, Wheat, and Millet. I let the seed soak for 14 hours, then rinsed throughly, strained and placed in jars. Then PC'ed for 80 minutes. Let cool overnight then innoc'ed each jar with 1.5 CC spore solution out of a MS syringe. The jars are just over 1/2 full. I shook the jars up after knocking them up to disperse the spores.
It has been a week now and I have not seen a thing. I am wondering what is going on here since I normally observe growth sooner. I know the syringe is not a dud b/c I've had success with BRF cakes less than 1 month ago with the same syringe.
I suppose the seed could be too dry, but definitely not too wet... What to do?
How long should I wait before tossing?
Thanks!
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 62,899
Loc: Van Isle
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Re: WBS Jars [Re: cmich]
#18414410 - 06/13/13 04:04 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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wait another week at least before jumping the gun
-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor
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veda_sticks
Cultivator




Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 14,191
Loc: UK
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Re: WBS Jars [Re: cmich]
#18414415 - 06/13/13 04:05 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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The seed was only soaked and not simmered afterwards? i dunno if thats the problem though.
I had that happen with my first WBS jars but they did eventaually start and colinise fine.
Since you shook your jars also its possible they are growing in amongst the grains and you dont see it yet.
Im still adjusting things to get my WBS method as ive ended up with mushy grains and grains that have dried up and not colinised for almost 2 months.
--------------------
PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek
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mushmybush
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Registered: 06/11/13
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Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Re: WBS Jars [Re: cmich]
#18414423 - 06/13/13 04:07 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Sometimes the WBS take longer. I ran into the same worry before. The second time I did WBS was shake the jar before you add the spores so they are not stuck together. After you add the spores, let it sit for a few days without shaking so that you know where to expect to see mycelium growth. After you see them growing and feel better about it, shake them up.
One problem with WBS is that they use fungicide. I just rinse them multiple times before soaking and during soaking so that the water is cleaner and I ensure there are no poisions. Best to find organic if you can.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 62,899
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Quote:
mushmybush said:
One problem with WBS is that they use fungicide. I just rinse them multiple times before soaking and during soaking so that the water is cleaner and I ensure there are no poisions. Best to find organic if you can.
-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor
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twistedty
Forcefully Retired



Registered: 07/01/12
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i would definetly not skimp out on the simmer,
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cmich
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Yeah maybe I should have simmered. Thats what you get for not following tek's right!!!!
I shook the jars after PC'ing to break grain apart, then again after innoc to move spores around.
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twistedty
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Re: WBS Jars [Re: cmich]
#18414628 - 06/13/13 04:46 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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only time will tell if you fail or not.
but i soak for 8-16 hours then simmer until grain is relatively easy to split with thumbnail, and then steam dry for few hours in collander.
then load and pc for 90
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MadSeasonStudent
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Registered: 08/26/12
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Yeah. DocT has a great thread about it an I've always done it pretty close to that method without fail. You do need to simmer the grain though. I simmer let it drain for 20-30 minutes and load the jars up and pressure cook for 60 minutes. Always worked for me. The thumbnail is a great way to know they are ready. I have some pictures i will upload later, i just did 58 jars of WBS. I will come back and post again.
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HypnotoadCroaked
Retired, but will check MSGs


Registered: 01/05/13
Posts: 1,168
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I have yet to have any issues and I do not simmer. I do a 24+ hour soak of the generic wbs found at most "department" stores. I have taken to not even removing floaters. I've got a multitude of quarts atm that are proof that simmering is not necessary to me and my methods.
However, I have had issues from shaking immediately after inoculation. My first time I had a grain bag take a month and a half to show any signs of growth...but once it started it was fast.
I do not advise shaking MS inoculation. If you used a LC, shake it up, but with a MS, you don't want to spread the spores out. You need them close together so that they can exchange dna and start the growth process.
Give it time. If you have a good MS, I can only assume that eventually a connection will be made.
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sansa

Registered: 11/17/09
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Simmering is a great way to get lots of accidentally burst kernels and overhydrated spawn which breeds all kinds of bac. Plus it's a pain in the ass.
You get all of the downsides and none of the upsides. Agar says don't simmer WBS and he's right.
Soaking gives all the water it needs, even then the soak can give more water than it should have and it needs to dry out for a few hours before going in the jars.
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twistedty
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Re: WBS Jars [Re: sansa]
#18416830 - 06/14/13 12:14 AM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
sansa said: Simmering is a great way to get lots of accidentally burst kernels and overhydrated spawn which breeds all kinds of bac. Plus it's a pain in the ass.
You get all of the downsides and none of the upsides. Agar says don't simmer WBS and he's right.
Soaking gives all the water it needs, even then the soak can give more water than it should have and it needs to dry out for a few hours before going in the jars.
strongly disagree.
simmer for awhile until al dente, and then steam dry.
if your doing ms innocs i doubt your wbs will have enough moisture w/o drying out
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Oeric McKenna
LIFE CAPS


Registered: 06/15/12
Posts: 5,318
Loc: Babylon
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There are so many kinds of birdseed though^ Some has all similarly sized large grains. Some has very small grains like millet. Anything containing millet should be heated slowly and very gently at most. If its all large grains, you can outright boil it. If the grains are dissimilar sizes.... GOOD LUCK with that...
Whether simmered/boiled or not, I recommend biting a grain and checking the inside for hydration and/or dryness. Its the inner hydration that you need to gauge . From there, proceed to drying the exterior ect.
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veda_sticks
Cultivator




Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 14,191
Loc: UK
Last seen: 5 years, 13 days
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Quote:
Oeric McKenna said: There are so many kinds of birdseed though^ Some has all similarly sized large grains. Some has very small grains like millet. Anything containing millet should be heated slowly and very gently at most. If its all large grains, you can outright boil it. If the grains are dissimilar sizes.... GOOD LUCK with that...
Whether simmered/boiled or not, I recommend biting a grain and checking the inside for hydration and/or dryness. Its the inner hydration that you need to gauge . From there, proceed to drying the exterior ect.
this is probbaly why my grain ends up a mushy mess if i simmer it. Even after the 24 hours soak its mushy.
I prefer the no soak method of boiling water, moving the pot to another cold ring and dumping the grain in and soaking for an hour then rinsing well.
foomans WBS tek.
--------------------
PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek
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Oeric McKenna
LIFE CAPS


Registered: 06/15/12
Posts: 5,318
Loc: Babylon
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Yeah man it depends on the grain. If you ever try soft white winter wheat , you'll never go back.
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twistedty
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i guess there is more than one way to reach inner hydration of a grain. to each his own.
i just hope every one is getting great colonization!
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Oeric McKenna
LIFE CAPS


Registered: 06/15/12
Posts: 5,318
Loc: Babylon
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Oh hell yes!
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MadSeasonStudent
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These are mine from just the other day. 40lb bag for $18. rinsed, rinsed, rinsed a little bit of dish soap, rinsed..let it soak for 12 hours and I simmered for about 8 minutes until the water started to bubble.
I'm sure there is 100 ways to skin a cat, this just seems to work better for me.



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UltimateAnswer
From Mars to Sirius


Registered: 10/24/09
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Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
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I followed franks wbs tek. He basically just heats up his wbs until the first sign of heavy simmer then pours into strainer to rinse and dry. My jars following this method are doing great.
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MadSeasonStudent
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Quote:
UltimateAnswer said: I followed franks wbs tek. He basically just heats up his wbs until the first sign of heavy simmer then pours into strainer to rinse and dry. My jars following this method are doing great.
I pay close attention to Frank, what a great person to learn from. I do this because I used bulk seed corn one time and had alot of issues. When I get brave enough to crawl back to something else, I will try Franks way.
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twistedty
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Quote:
UltimateAnswer said: I followed franks wbs tek. He basically just heats up his wbs until the first sign of heavy simmer then pours into strainer to rinse and dry. My jars following this method are doing great.
pretty sure frank doesnt call for a rinse after a simmer, the steam leaving the grains is what drys them
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UltimateAnswer
From Mars to Sirius


Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 110
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
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Quote:
twistedty said:
Quote:
UltimateAnswer said: I followed franks wbs tek. He basically just heats up his wbs until the first sign of heavy simmer then pours into strainer to rinse and dry. My jars following this method are doing great.
pretty sure frank doesnt call for a rinse after a simmer, the steam leaving the grains is what drys them
I just read the tek again you were right sir. I think i remember rinsing mine because I had a couple of grains pop and I was trying to cool mine off before anymore joined them. Luckily I caught it before it got too bad
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Oeric McKenna
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Registered: 06/15/12
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Loc: Babylon
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Rinsing & manually drying is surely better than tossing it out.
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cmich
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Registered: 06/01/13
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Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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After close to 2 weeks I'm starting to see some mycelium growth. It is very small and sporadic in very few places throughout the jars. I have a feeling these are going to take a loooooong time to colonize compared to my BRF jars. Until then I'll be patiently waiting to spawn my first monotub!
FWIW I normally incubate my BRF jars is a TIT incubator at 80 degrees. I'm trying these quart jars out at room temp.
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Oeric McKenna
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Registered: 06/15/12
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Re: WBS Jars [Re: cmich]
#18430903 - 06/17/13 05:51 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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I would just start new grain either way. if this works, you'll have more , which won't hurt.
Rye, or better yet, wheat berries are easier to hydrate perfectly. Bite a grain to test. Remember, dry outside, hydrated inside.
How you hydrate it and how you dry it aren't relative if the end result is correct aide from ease of preparation
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