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InvisibleBrontupisto
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Registered: 06/12/13
Posts: 33
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Nearly ready for my first grow!
    #18412446 - 06/13/13 07:17 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Hey all, I'm new here. So hi, I'm Paris, otherwise known as Brontupisto.

I've been doing a lot of research over the past month and have slowly been getting the equipment together to set up some PF tek to grow some 100% legal fungi. I only have two things to get before I can get started with colonization.

-1/2 Mason Jars
Where do I buy these in Melbourne, Australia? I've been looking around for ages but I can only find them online, for a very steep price.

-Spore print
Although unrelated, I'm interested in looking at some P. Cubensis spores under the microscope :smirk:. I've heard some good things about FSRE, but I don't know how safe it is to import spores for an illegal fungus to Australia. Anyone down under have any experience with this? There's also a great deal of options in terms of strain... I'm considering B+ or Golden Teacher.

So yeah. I guess I'll just post some pics of my progress in this thread, and if anyone could help me in terms of those two items, that would be great.

Also, how would one go about heating the terrarium that the BRF cakes go in? And anyone got tips for a first time grower?

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OfflineWolfieNuke
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Re: Nearly ready for my first grow! [Re: Brontupisto]
    #18412500 - 06/13/13 07:55 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I received a spore print FSRE for microscopy and had no issues. Send them a self-addressed return envelope with your request. Very inconspicuous, they also had some thick flier in the envelope which masked the intended package. Give them a little time though, it took just over 2 weeks to the U.S.

As for the terrarium, I use a small heater with built in fan (low speed) and thermostat and place it in the room a few feet away from the terrarium, the airflow is indirect and not facing the terrarium. This allows me to keep the small room at 79-81°F. Most people say that room temperature is fine, but I like to keep it constant. The heater turns on/off intermittently, usually about once every 10 minutes.

Edited by WolfieNuke (06/13/13 08:01 AM)

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InvisibleBrontupisto
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Re: Nearly ready for my first grow! [Re: WolfieNuke]
    #18412555 - 06/13/13 08:26 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Awesome, thanks. Do you think I'd be able to get away with putting the FC on a tray filled with water, and heating that water with a aquarium heater?


--------------------
are u ok

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OfflineTrippy_Penguin
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Re: Nearly ready for my first grow! [Re: Brontupisto]
    #18412653 - 06/13/13 09:03 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Most people you ask will say if heating is necessary, heat the room. Depending on what strain you're growing, room temperature will work just fine and you don't need to waste your time and money on heating.

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InvisibleBrontupisto
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Re: Nearly ready for my first grow! [Re: Trippy_Penguin]
    #18412673 - 06/13/13 09:10 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks. So room temp should be fine for B+ and/or GT?


--------------------
are u ok

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OfflineTrippy_Penguin
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Re: Nearly ready for my first grow! [Re: Brontupisto]
    #18412748 - 06/13/13 09:38 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I only have experience growing mushrooms between 60F-80F, but they grew fine within that range for me. Unless you live in an extremely cold house, don't worry about heating the room.

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OfflineWolfieNuke
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Re: Nearly ready for my first grow! [Re: Brontupisto]
    #18412762 - 06/13/13 09:41 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

<60°F will slow colonization to a halt, probably fruiting as well. Think hibernation.
60°F-70°F is fine, yet colonization and fruiting will be slow
70°F-80°F is great for most/all cubensis.
80°F-85°F can cause contamination to grow faster than mycelium, and should be avoided if possible.
>85°F will damage/kill mycelium.

These are rough guidelines abstracted from trusted cultivators, and you should research on your own and not take my word for it.

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Invisiblechums of chance

Registered: 10/23/12
Posts: 163
Loc: Warlock, Arizona Flag
Re: Nearly ready for my first grow! *DELETED* [Re: Brontupisto]
    #18412866 - 06/13/13 10:15 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Post deleted by chums of chance

Reason for deletion: na

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InvisibleBrontupisto
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Re: Nearly ready for my first grow! [Re: chums of chance]
    #18415943 - 06/13/13 08:42 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I wish I lived in America  :glittershitz: getting jars would be 342435 easier.

Alright one more thing, should I bother making a LC or Agar?


--------------------
are u ok

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OfflineCloudyDrizzle
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Re: Nearly ready for my first grow! [Re: Brontupisto]
    #18415963 - 06/13/13 08:47 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

You can find jars in numerous stores such as hardware and grocery stores. I have even seem them at Target.

As for LC or Agar I would go with agar if you are doing grain and LC if you are going to stick with BRF jars, but Agar is best IMO.

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OfflineWolfieNuke
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Re: Nearly ready for my first grow! [Re: Brontupisto]
    #18415987 - 06/13/13 08:50 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I would start with a spore syringe. Less chances for contamination on your first try. After that, you could try LC or as most others would recommend, agar.

Personally, I will be cloning some of my best clusters or fruits and using a SAB and my best attempt at sterile procedures, make a LC clone with the tissue sample.

Using spores to make an LC doesn't have much of an advantage - It will still be a multispore LC and will take more time than straight inoculation.

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Offlineinvitro


Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
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Re: Nearly ready for my first grow! [Re: Brontupisto]
    #18416091 - 06/13/13 09:14 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Hi,

I'm new too and the first time I tried I was all concerned about getting the temperature as high as possible for maximum growth.  What ended up happening to me is that one day it got really hot outside and the room temp inside climbed quickly and killed everything before I knew it.  My advice is to not heat and let nature take it's course unless you are in a cold climate or have strict control over the room temperature.  And even if you could maintain 85 degrees F you wouldn't want to because the inside of the jar would heat up because of the biological activity in the jar.  How much it will heat up I don't know exactly.  I would stay with 72 to be safe.

Concerning liquid culture:  I did a liquid culture.  I got a pc and made some half pint jars with holes big enough for a syringe, then covered that in tin foil.  I used honey
and distilled water.  I injected with a syringe and did a bunch of pftek jars (1/2) pints.  I got a lot of contamination, possibly because I left the lc jars in a semi-windy room, spores might have blown in, one jar had a dead ant! I guess they can smell really well.  I also tilted some of the pftek jars before I realized that doing so enables bad spores to roll down into the nutrients in a pftek cake.  I also got gnat larvae in one of my jars that was colonizing really well, it died as a result.

So this time around I made some home made lids with rtv silicone and synthetic filter disks for a liquid culture(there is a write-up for this on this site, I'm too tired to look for it right now).  I also inject through a small piece of sponge soaked in alcohol (another tek on this site).  I also made lids for my "pftek jars" with rtv silicone (to inject through) and sfd for air exchange.  Actually they aren't pftek jars because the intent is to use whole grains, so I can shake them for fast colonization.  The special lid also eliminates the need for the dry vermiculite protective layer on top.  These re-used 1/2 pints are my test jars to see if I get contams, then I plan to move to grain bags with micropore filters for gas exchange, quart grain jars would have worked just as well.


I also did some agar plates and one seems to be doing good.  If I were to make more plates I would make them myself so that I can make the substrate nutrient rich, the pre-poured ones online are low in nutrients and take forever to colonize.  That's good for strain preservation but not for fast multiplication.


I've been reading on this site for a couple of months and it's looking like the best technique is to start with agar then go to grain jars using a still air box, then going grain to grain, then spawning in a monotub or mini-greenhouse depending on how many shrooms you want to end up with.  Monotubs might yield something like 6z dry and greenhouses like 3-4lbs dry, assuming everything goes really well.

Petri plates are preferred over liquid culture because contamination does not readily show itself in LC until you have used it on grains,
whereas petri plates allow for the full development of the spores and you can visually identify what is growing in there, be it bacteria, or whatever.  LC allows for mycelial development but does not encourage later stages of development like spores, which are often colored and are the sure signs of contamination.  Lip-stick mold, trichoderma, etc. are easily identified by their green/red colors, colors which manifest themselves because of the color of the spores.

If you decide to move beyond pftek cakes, which taker longer to colonize becuase you can't shake them, I recommend buying the videos from Roger Rabbit that show you how to prepare grain spawn and bulk substrate.  It's like $9 for the download and it's totally worth it.

http://www.mushroomvideo.com


good luck

Edited by invitro (06/13/13 09:49 PM)

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OfflineWolfieNuke
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Re: Nearly ready for my first grow! [Re: invitro]
    #18416111 - 06/13/13 09:19 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Very good suggestion!
Self-Healing Lid Tek
Here are mine:

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InvisibleBrontupisto
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Registered: 06/12/13
Posts: 33
Loc: Melbourne, Australia Flag
Re: Nearly ready for my first grow! [Re: WolfieNuke]
    #18416602 - 06/13/13 11:03 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Wow, thanks so much. The community on this forum is great, haha. What do those lids actually do? Do they just decrease the rate of contamination?

Also, after you sterilize a jar, would you be able to leave it for an extended period of time without inoculating it?


--------------------
are u ok

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OfflineWolfieNuke
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Re: Nearly ready for my first grow! [Re: Brontupisto]
    #18416632 - 06/13/13 11:12 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Brontupisto said:
Wow, thanks so much. The community on this forum is great, haha. What do those lids actually do? Do they just decrease the rate of contamination?

Also, after you sterilize a jar, would you be able to leave it for an extended period of time without inoculating it?



There are 4 self-healing inoculation ports made with RTV silicone. This prevents contamination caused from older teks that just used an open hole or tape covered holes. The center hole is covered with double layered tyvek (some use synthetic filter discs) which provides gas exchange (GE) without allowing moisture to escape or contamination to enter.

I inoculated 10 of these jars in open air (using this tek) with no contamination.

It took a few hours to make the lids and overnight to dry the silicone, but it saves so much time and effort later on.

I would inoculate as soon as possible, but if you leave them for a few days it will probably be ok. I'm assuming you want to make them and have them ready when spores arrive? Just try to time it as best as possible. The longer you wait, the more of a chance for contamination to get a hold on the substrate.

Edited by WolfieNuke (06/13/13 11:14 PM)

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Offlineinvitro


Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
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Re: Nearly ready for my first grow! [Re: Brontupisto]
    #18416755 - 06/13/13 11:47 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

:starwars:

Well, the lids keep things more sterile in two different ways. 
The synthetic filter disk is designed to keep out small particles, particularly spores.  The blob of rtv over the hole in the lid is designed for a syringe to penetrate while keeping air from entering (which probably has foreign spores).  The piece of alcohol soaked sponge is to kill and spores that might land on the syringe needle right before injection. 

Spores are everywhere and it's darn near impossible to kill everything.  Another way of saying that is that even the most sterile procedures are probably not 100% sterile, but pretty close is good enough.  I wouldn't let a sterile jar sit for any period of time, the pressure cooking is likely to kill most spores, but I've read that some can just be "knocked out" for a period of time and come back to life eventually, maybe 3 weeks (can someone verify this)?  If you add spores right away then the mycelium can colonize the jar and be strong enough to fight off contaminations that do rebound.  I'm talking about a grain jar or pftek in this case, not an lc jar.

You can get a pack of sfd for maybe $15 and the rtv was $4 at Walmart, in the auto section.  I went to home depot and they had no tyvek stuff at all.

:bliss:

Edited by invitro (06/13/13 11:49 PM)

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OfflineBloodKil
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Re: Nearly ready for my first grow! [Re: invitro]
    #18417040 - 06/14/13 01:12 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

SFD are king of the hill, but come with a bit of a price tag...  Tyvek is free, and the post office will deliver it to your door.  I personally use ez felt which is still redonculously cheap and will hold up to multiple pc cycles without getting all distorted like Tyvek does after 1.

Making the above lids with whichever filter you choose however will remain at a very reasonable cost per lid, and likely save you a bunch of headaches in the end.  Plus the boost in endospore security is priceless.

I personally would be more worried about your jars drying out than having a contamination take over as long as you use lids as above and have properly sterilized them in a pc.  I left some twist and locks with modified lids sitting for 2 weeks before getting to them and they turned out fine. (But each had quite a small hole that then had part of its perimeter sealed by rtv as I glued a filter on each side)

Also get one of the larger Sprayon brand pressurized rtv sealant cans as opposed to the tubes.  You get a lot more sealant (you'll be glad you have it next time you make jars) and its only 8 or 9 bucks.

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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Nearly ready for my first grow! [Re: BloodKil]
    #18417066 - 06/14/13 01:20 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BloodKil said:
SFD are king of the hill, but come with a bit of a price tag...



Not really.

One SFD can make 8 lids.

At $1.00 each, that is 13 cents per lid.

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OfflineBloodKil
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Re: Nearly ready for my first grow! [Re: PussyFart]
    #18417196 - 06/14/13 01:53 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Well yes and no...  13 c is still 13× what a similar ez felt filter would cost...  not to mention the shipping cost nearly doubled their costs when I was out and about shopping for my filtration needs.  (But I might not have found the right shops, as that was when I was first starting.)


All I know is I got 25 sheets of 12x18 ez felt for under 15 bucks shipped to my door.  (And a rather large box of postal tyvek for free. :wink: )

Though it doesnt have bearing on op...
I might eventually go the sfd route, but if so I'll be using the full sized disc's, as I plan on trying to get away from having to modify any future lids for g2g, and I already have a bunch I modified for inoc..  (might even go strictly bags in the future and use sfd on them if my current 10qt run doesn't work with ez felt..  I got some samples in from associatedbag that are huge...  )


10 qt grain plus 1 quart oyster I g2g into it 2 days ago...  8c worth of ez felt (2 jar sized filters) and a free bag :grin:

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InvisibleBrontupisto
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Registered: 06/12/13
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Loc: Melbourne, Australia Flag
Re: Nearly ready for my first grow! [Re: BloodKil]
    #18420637 - 06/14/13 08:35 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Wow, I still have a lot of reading to go haha... Thanks so much guys, I'll keep you updated on how everything goes  :headbang:

Considering doing monotub instead. I might just continue with PF tek until I get my expenses back, then change to bulk.


--------------------
are u ok

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