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Gyaradoz
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Registered: 06/12/13
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First Grow Questions!
#18410910 - 06/12/13 09:18 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hey whatsup guys,
So I am a first time grower after close to a year of trying to find a connection for some mushies I have decided to grow on my own. I am usually pretty good at getting things right the first time, but this seems like a very delicate procedure, so I thought I would ask for some advice. I just began the incubation process yesterday, so I am not too far along. I got most of my info from a video on youtube, also I im-provved a bit by using a Casserole Dish. I inoculated with a 10cc Burma strain I got online.
So I started out with a glass Casserole dish. I filled it to about 1" from the top with a mixture of brown rice flour I got from Whole Foods, "Professional Grade" Vermiculite, and purified water (I made sure the consistency was not too wet, or too dry. Just right from the info I have received). I then filled the last 1" with vermiculite. I covered the whole dish top with 2 layers of tin foil, and poked 12 holes evenly spaced throughout the tin foil cover ranging from the size of raisin, to the size of a dime. I then covered each hole thoroughly with Leukotape, and put a second cover of doubled up tinfoil over the first layer which I Leukotaped the full circumference of the Casserole Dish with. Air Tight / Water Tight. Finally I baked the whole dish in the oven at 240 for around an hour and a half.
For the Inoculation I removed the second set / layer of tinfoil. Then I put on my surgical gloves, with asepsis procedure. I removed the 12 pieces of tape covering the holes, with surgical gloves on. I then took the syringe, wiped it down with an alcohol pad, and injected an even amount of the 10cc syringe into each hole. When Injecting I would take the syringe to the bottom of the dish then lift off around 1". After Inoculation I placed the dish in my closet which is pretty much pitch black.
Today I went out and bought a huge lizard heating mat, and after some research placed it onto of a couple big brown paper bags leaning on the casserole dish.
My few concerns are 1) during inoculation I blew something off of the bottom of the needle before injecting will this have any chance of causing microbes to grow? 2) was 240 degrees hot enough to sterilize the substrate / keep the Mycelium safe?(after I inoculated :P) 3) during inoculation I rubbed the needle on the tin foil on the way in any chance of infection growing from that?. 4) is the Lizard heating mat necessary / can it be used to help the mycelium growth. I live in a flat where it stays between 70-75 pretty much 24/7 at about 50-60% Humidity. 5) During the incubation stage does the Mycelium need Fresh Air? I'm thinking my closet does not have the best air flow 
for fruiting process from what I understand you need a Rubbermaid container filled with about 3" of soaked / strained perlite. You then drill holes in the bottom of the container around 2" apart, as well as some holes on the sides to keep FAE. Also I read that you should cut out a window pain on the lid of the container and replace it with saran wrap. From there I have read you need to put the box in a spot where it gets a little bit of sunlight, and you need to keep the box at a high humidity at around 80 degrees F. From what I understand in order to do this you need to mist the walls of the box 2-3 times a day and possibly keep the heating pad underneath the fruiting chamber. I have a thermometer and humidity gauge for the fruiting chamber so I can keep an eye on it.
Also any suggestions on my set up, and next stages of the cycle? I know there a lot more things I could be doing, and possibly shouldn't be doing, or could be doing better. I know its a very large grow for a first timer, but I have had a good feeling from the start of this project, and feel it will flourish if I do it right. Also today I read of a possible second grow? Is it possible to harvest your cake, then submerge it in water and grow another batch?
Thank you very much for taking the time to read all of this. I appreciate it, and am very eager for any advice someone has for me!
-------------------- The Truth is stranger than fiction.
Life is Eternal.
Unlearn Fear.
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Queen of Kings
Get on with the Fascination



Registered: 12/11/11
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Re: First Grow Questions! [Re: Gyaradoz]
#18410965 - 06/12/13 09:32 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Oh my.
I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but...
That won't work for your sterilization. It will be contam city.
Did you really just say something was on the tip of your needle so you blew on it? Seriously? Like your breath alone has gazillions of contaminants. And I don't mean that personally.
Have you considered following a tek?
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor
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Gyaradoz
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Registered: 06/12/13
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Re: First Grow Questions! [Re: cronicr]
#18410992 - 06/12/13 09:38 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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I blew on not the tip but the other end of the needle. Even with all said, I still have faith in the project. Is 240 hot enough to decontam? I didn't want to fuck up the substrate by going too hot.
-------------------- The Truth is stranger than fiction.
Life is Eternal.
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stranger_danger
psychonaut



Registered: 02/24/11
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Re: First Grow Questions! [Re: Gyaradoz]
#18410997 - 06/12/13 09:39 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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throw away everything you have done. get a new syringe full of spores.
go ahead and do it this way for success
http://www.mushroomvideos.com/BRF-Pf-Tek
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Queen of Kings
Get on with the Fascination



Registered: 12/11/11
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Have you read the links on this page? It's the Getting Started board.
For someone who hasn't grown, it's the ideal place to start.
While experimenting can be fun, for new growers it is rarely successful.
You do not need a heat mat, ever.
You would have been liking life more if you had started with cakes in half pint jars. Then you could have sterilized them by steaming them in a pot. (A way to get away with no pressure cooker.)
With no still air box for your inoculation, plus blowing on your needle and apparently NOT flaming it, I am not holding out a lot of hope.
Don't be surprised to see (a) growth followed by (b) mold.
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stranger_danger
psychonaut



Registered: 02/24/11
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...... 240 for the substrate?... i am really not trying to be rude, but have you done any research at all?
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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an oven isn't gona get you to 240 bud, 210 at best and it's an ugly dry heat
-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor
Edited by cronicr (06/12/13 09:46 PM)
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Gyaradoz
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not going to throw it away at the very least I will learn something it. I will look into other techniques though, and getting another batch of spores. Actually yes I have from what I researched a pressure cooker is the way to go, so I attempted to mimic the temps of a pressure cooker. And fyi I cleaned over the place I blew on with an alcohol pad pretty thoroughly.
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Gyaradoz
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Re: First Grow Questions! [Re: Gyaradoz]
#18411053 - 06/12/13 09:50 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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blowing on it seemed a lot better than touching the needle.. But now that I think of it I had surgical gloves on so..
-------------------- The Truth is stranger than fiction.
Life is Eternal.
Unlearn Fear.
Become.
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Queen of Kings
Get on with the Fascination



Registered: 12/11/11
Posts: 1,201
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Re: First Grow Questions! [Re: Gyaradoz]
#18411172 - 06/12/13 10:12 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Gyaradoz, what's the reason for not following a proven tek, for example, the PF tek? It's pretty foolproof but each step in it has a reason behind it, so shortcuts or "innovations" will usually fail.
You don't need a pressure cooker to do it.
People fruit beautiful cakes all the time without a pressure cooker, and so can you!!
For your next time, will you give it a try?
Once you have a good grow under your belt you can take some prints, work on your agar skills, clone your nicest shrooms, and so on.
But getting that first set of prints -- it's almost always best to follow a tek.
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Gyaradoz
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Well I am technically following a tek.. if I understand the term fully. I followed the youtube video that I watched.. not sure of the link but I took a detailed noting of the whole thing. I will for sure look into and most likely follow a tek from this site next time, but I did not discover this website until after I started my first attempt. I followed the steps according to that video so I am going to give it a shot. I really appreciate those links I have them on my favorites and I defenetly will be doing tons of research now that I found this site.
-------------------- The Truth is stranger than fiction.
Life is Eternal.
Unlearn Fear.
Become.
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Queen of Kings
Get on with the Fascination



Registered: 12/11/11
Posts: 1,201
Loc: Pacific Northwest, almost
Last seen: 8 years, 7 days
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Re: First Grow Questions! [Re: Gyaradoz]
#18411318 - 06/12/13 10:43 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Gyaradoz, don't give up if/when your first attempt fails. Many people have come from other places where they read some strange method or another that didn't work. Then they come here, read and read till they're nearly overwhelmed, then follow a technique like the PF tek step by step and enjoy tremendous success. I expect you will too! So don't be discouraged. We all start somewhere! I remember trying my first grow in COFFEE GROUNDS!! Not sterilized! Green all over in short order! That said, I hope you get lucky and get some fruits. Post your progress and don't worry if it's not stellar. Mistakes are only stepping stones on the mycology path!
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kinkaku
I AM THE LAW!!!!




Registered: 04/02/13
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start out with pf tek dude then move to bulk like most new growers do lol
that being said I am interested to hear the outcome of this project
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Gyaradoz
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Re: First Grow Questions! [Re: kinkaku]
#18411655 - 06/12/13 11:49 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Queen of Kings you are awesome I appreciate it! good to hear at least someone has a little faith in this project kink :P haha yea, I guess I kind of went go big or go home, but I did do my research.. atleast until I found this place xD. Next time for sure I will try a tek.. unless this one works! :P.the 2 main thing i'm concered with after this talk now is if 240 was too hot for the substrate for whatever reason. and if a contam did/does occur.. I will be posting pictures that's for sure!
-------------------- The Truth is stranger than fiction.
Life is Eternal.
Unlearn Fear.
Become.
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krunkmaster
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Re: First Grow Questions! [Re: Gyaradoz]
#18411964 - 06/13/13 01:53 AM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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I started with PF tek, and I completely blew it by cranking the heat up way, way too high on the PC. nothing ever ended up growing. but then I tried again and sterilized at a good temp and it has been smooth sailing ever since then. I am in the fruiting process right now and it is going beautifully so far. as a fellow noob I really recommend giving the standard PF tek a shot and you will learn a ton with very little investment/effort. then spread out to experimentation from there!
-------------------- Thou shalt not kill my vibe
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Gyaradoz
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thanks for the reccomendation! I will defenetly look into this PF Tek. what is a good temp for a PC? and do you PC with the substrate in the jar / water tight?
-------------------- The Truth is stranger than fiction.
Life is Eternal.
Unlearn Fear.
Become.
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krunkmaster
Cannibal


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Re: First Grow Questions! [Re: Gyaradoz]
#18413008 - 06/13/13 10:51 AM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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I initially set the range's burner to high and just left the PC on for an hour, because I never used a PC before and didn't know what the hell I was doing. the second time, I set it to high at first until the rocker on top of the PC started rattling, and then immediately reduced the heat to medium and left it for an hour. maybe someone else can comment on whether it should ideally be slightly higher or lower than that.
and yeah, it's all covered in the steps for the tek, but you do load the brown rice flour/vermiculite into the jar before. the purpose is just to kill absolutely anything that might already be in there before you introduce the spores. I personally did not screw the lids on as tightly as possible, but it was pretty close. you use a layer of tin foil to help make sure the water doesn't rise up and enter the jar.
-------------------- Thou shalt not kill my vibe
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stranger_danger
psychonaut



Registered: 02/24/11
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you keep saying 240 for the substrate, do you actually mean substrate (meaning bulk substrate or what you will fill a mono tub with to spawn your grain/cake into) or do you mean grain/flour that you are making your jars/cakes with?
if it is your jars/cakes then you need to either PC your grain jars at 15 psi for 90+ minutes or steam your rice/verm jars in a pot with a lid/pc them if you can.
if you are genuinely talking about your substrate then you need to maintain about 160 in water or steam for about 90-120 minutes. this is called pasteurizing and if you go above 170 you get into sterilizing, which is a bad thing.
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Gyaradoz
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thanks for the info krunk! in my case I think the layer of tinfoil / water tight tape helped keep the water in xD. By substrate I meen the brown rice flour and vermiculite mixture as the video I watched called it. I know on a lot of foods you cook they all state specifically internal temp must reach 160 so that wouldve been a good temp to clean it up but I wanted to be sure. idk if they burn fields in order to make grass grow, and mushrooms grow out of cow pies, neither of which I would want in my grow, and if I had known better I defenetly wouldve changed a few things. I understand it may not be ideal temp but I can still see my batch flourishing, but idk this is my first time. the video I got my info from btw is called "How to Grow Magic Mushrooms" by Choklitmlk123 on youtube.
-------------------- The Truth is stranger than fiction.
Life is Eternal.
Unlearn Fear.
Become.
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BloodKil
Mangler av era mödrar slida


Registered: 03/16/13
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Re: First Grow Questions! [Re: Gyaradoz]
#18414742 - 06/13/13 05:07 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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I completely agree.. your batch will flourish, but it will likely flourish with bacteria/mold and not the mushroom mycelium you are hoping for.
I would say that just about anyone who does a fair amount of research will have an extremely high success rate on their first grow. I'm not sure that watching a YouTube video would put you in that category though...
Your best bet as stated above would be to follow the pf tek links provided above to a t. (If your actually willing to invest the time to learn, I would even say skip doing pf tek, and just go bulk, but quite honestly your current situations shows you do not invest the time needed before jumping into a venture)
I'm not trying to be overly harsh with what I am saying, but found myself cringing about every step of the way in your OP. This site is filled with lots of use full information, I suggest reading up here, and down rating the YouTube video if you really did follow its procedure. (Out in the woods on my mobile right now.. signal sucks way to bad to try to watch it)
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Gyaradoz
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Re: First Grow Questions! [Re: BloodKil]
#18415099 - 06/13/13 06:00 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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I have considered that, but we will see. I don't think it will flourish with a massive amount of bacteria/ mold. Well your just basing that on what I've said. I researched for about a month before I actually received my Syringe, and didn't stumble upon this wealth of information until I already inoculated. According to the video I watched and from what I have researched well above what is required to jump into something, and I think you are somewhat out of line for saying that. I mean as the OP of the video states; Mushroom growing has been working for thousands of years, and their are fool proof strategies out there now a days, those old methods still work. Only time will tell, but I still have a good feeling about it.
-------------------- The Truth is stranger than fiction.
Life is Eternal.
Unlearn Fear.
Become.
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BloodKil
Mangler av era mödrar slida


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Re: First Grow Questions! [Re: Gyaradoz]
#18415443 - 06/13/13 07:00 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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First off what was I supposed to base what I said off of? If not what you typed here I'm at a loss.
As far as being out of line, well to be honest your entire procedure from a casserole dish pf tek, ( ) your bad attempt to sterilize in the oven, the "professional grade vermiculite" (wut?) to what sounds like an all around poor sanitary procedure, darkness, wiping with alcohol pads, lizard heating masks, not knowing if mycelium needs ge, etc... etc... etc... All are either way outdated or simple bs... I honestly thought I had put it in a way before that was not overly harsh, but would still get you to do some actually reading instead following a YouTube video that was either crap or you followed poorly (as I said I have not seen it, but forget what you know and start relearning)
As to doing a month of research prior to getting your syringe...
I'm sorry but I was looking around to see if there had been any advancement on indoor growth of morels a few months back and after a couple of seconds on Google was sitting here.. I cannot for one second believe a month of searching (for shrooms none the less) and you were not led to this site somewhere along the way.
As a fun little experiment to see how far off the normal you could go and see if by chance something grows, this does the sound too bad... For your first attempt at growing, you will likely just find yourself pissed in a week or two.
By all means though, please do drop some pictures by in a couple weeks and show us how this has worked out for you.
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Gyaradoz
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Re: First Grow Questions! [Re: BloodKil]
#18415761 - 06/13/13 08:06 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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alright, tldr minus the first line.. but your out of line saying I didn't do my research
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Razzldazzle
Registered: 05/27/13
Posts: 87
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Re: First Grow Questions! *DELETED* [Re: Gyaradoz]
#18416134 - 06/13/13 09:23 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Post deleted by RazzldazzleReason for deletion: m
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Gyaradoz
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it aint over yet
-------------------- The Truth is stranger than fiction.
Life is Eternal.
Unlearn Fear.
Become.
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Gyaradoz
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Re: First Grow Questions! [Re: Gyaradoz]
#18434000 - 06/17/13 09:07 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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 Mycelium? or build up of brown rice flour?
-------------------- The Truth is stranger than fiction.
Life is Eternal.
Unlearn Fear.
Become.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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Re: First Grow Questions! [Re: Gyaradoz]
#18434437 - 06/17/13 10:31 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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that looks contaminated
-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor
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Gyaradoz
Stranger

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Re: First Grow Questions! [Re: cronicr]
#18434455 - 06/17/13 10:33 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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from what I can see it looks like mycelium
-------------------- The Truth is stranger than fiction.
Life is Eternal.
Unlearn Fear.
Become.
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kinkaku
I AM THE LAW!!!!




Registered: 04/02/13
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Re: First Grow Questions! [Re: Gyaradoz]
#18434461 - 06/17/13 10:34 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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the first pic looks exactly like cobweb lol
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Gyaradoz
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Re: First Grow Questions! [Re: Gyaradoz]
#18434475 - 06/17/13 10:36 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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that grey glow isn't really what it is. that's due to the lighting and the blueish hue to the casserole dish. IRL that stuff is plain white!!
-------------------- The Truth is stranger than fiction.
Life is Eternal.
Unlearn Fear.
Become.
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Gyaradoz
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Re: First Grow Questions! [Re: Gyaradoz]
#18434483 - 06/17/13 10:37 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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is cobweb good or bad? xD
-------------------- The Truth is stranger than fiction.
Life is Eternal.
Unlearn Fear.
Become.
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kinkaku
I AM THE LAW!!!!




Registered: 04/02/13
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Re: First Grow Questions! [Re: Gyaradoz]
#18434499 - 06/17/13 10:40 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gyaradoz said: is cobweb good or bad? xD
its a matter of perspective really.
I like mold sometimes cobweb is mold lol
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Gyaradoz
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Re: First Grow Questions! [Re: Gyaradoz]
#18434521 - 06/17/13 10:43 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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oh yea, I took off the top layer of tin foil after learning that that will cause the dry verm layer to moisten up and become contam. There was a ton of moisture even on the tin foil and the top of the layer of verm had mold patches, but only around the areas where the holes were on the tinfoil. That gives me a lot of reason to believe that the whole substrate was sterilized by my oven cooking!! good sign for the inside of the substrate I dug out a very minor layer of the dry verm layer with a hand soap cleaned metal spoon and scooped off the extremely small and superficial spots of mold. As I was doing that I dug into and hit a white-ish off white-ish patch which felt exactly like hitting clay when your digging in a sandbox. It was kind of like dried gum you would step on while walking around a high school or something. If that gives any analysis. I then proceded to put another layer of dry verm ontop of the verm I already had on there.
-------------------- The Truth is stranger than fiction.
Life is Eternal.
Unlearn Fear.
Become.
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BloodKil
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Re: First Grow Questions! [Re: Gyaradoz]
#18434531 - 06/17/13 10:46 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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This just keeps getting better...
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Gyaradoz
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Re: First Grow Questions! [Re: BloodKil]
#18434542 - 06/17/13 10:49 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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would that patch of gummy white be the consistency of a patch of mycelium?
-------------------- The Truth is stranger than fiction.
Life is Eternal.
Unlearn Fear.
Become.
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kinkaku
I AM THE LAW!!!!




Registered: 04/02/13
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Re: First Grow Questions! [Re: Gyaradoz]
#18434546 - 06/17/13 10:50 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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don't take this the wrong way but reading this thread is like reading a horror story lol we will call this horror story the mycology murder mystery
in the end what killed the substrate? could it have been the torturing pasteurization that did him in?
or was it the soapy un sterilized spoon scraping off the mold?
this is a case for the infamous Sherlock holmes.
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Gyaradoz
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Re: First Grow Questions! [Re: kinkaku]
#18434555 - 06/17/13 10:52 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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I mean I still know theres mycelium in there I can feel it the vibe is strong. So I guess I will find another shroom site lol.. thanks guys!
-------------------- The Truth is stranger than fiction.
Life is Eternal.
Unlearn Fear.
Become.
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Gyaradoz
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Re: First Grow Questions! [Re: Gyaradoz]
#18434566 - 06/17/13 10:54 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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and just so you know I didn't inoculate with spores until after I cooked in the oven so I don't really see that can be torturing pasteurization as a pressure cooker gets around the same temp. Maybe you guys haven't explained that...? I feel a lot of your guy's reasoning is based of assumptions, or miss communication. Or both
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Gyaradoz
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Re: First Grow Questions! [Re: Gyaradoz]
#18434575 - 06/17/13 10:55 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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If I had a huge block of White Mycelium that grew mushrooms, would you still be like NOPE MOLD, fuckin noob.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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Re: First Grow Questions! [Re: Gyaradoz]
#18434588 - 06/17/13 10:57 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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an oven doesn't get to the temps a pc can because of the pressure involved
-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor
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BloodKil
Mangler av era mödrar slida


Registered: 03/16/13
Posts: 920
Last seen: 6 months, 12 days
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Re: First Grow Questions! [Re: cronicr]
#18434620 - 06/17/13 11:03 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Lots of people around here tote huge blocks of mycelium that grow shrooms... their called monotubs.
If you get this to fruit ill applaud you, but realistically it seems like every step of the way your making it worse. I'm a "noob" myself when it comes to Mycology, but I'm constantly reading and trying to improve my knowledge... You would do well to do so yourself and at least start reading/learning some of the basics around here before attempting to grow again.
I hope you are able to succeed one way or the other, but don't be flabbergasted when this doesn't amount to anything.
The pics themselves do look contaminated, but maybe you could get a shot with a better camera, or at least some better/brighter lighting as the whole pics are almost relish yellow and grainy... (but still the shape itself looks like a contamination)
Edited by BloodKil (06/17/13 11:08 PM)
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kinkaku
I AM THE LAW!!!!




Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1,322
Loc: Россия
Last seen: 9 years, 22 days
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Re: First Grow Questions! [Re: cronicr]
#18434631 - 06/17/13 11:05 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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dude pasteurization still leaves bacteria and some mold spores what the fuck don't you get? and im a noob? you have 20 post an I have well over 20 grows so good job in identifying the noob.
I don't mean to be harsh but you come in here with a tek that you would have to be jesus to pull off and then start trying convince us that it works.
go bother some other mycology site you're going to get the same reaction.just do pf tek and get a few grows under your belt then start these crazy adventures.
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Queen of Kings
Get on with the Fascination



Registered: 12/11/11
Posts: 1,201
Loc: Pacific Northwest, almost
Last seen: 8 years, 7 days
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Re: First Grow Questions! [Re: Gyaradoz]
#18435717 - 06/18/13 07:18 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gyaradoz said: I mean I still know theres mycelium in there I can feel it the vibe is strong. So I guess I will find another shroom site lol.. thanks guys!
Gyaradoz, don't go and get your skirt all blown up. We are trying to help you. I can't imagine you're going to hear any better news somewhere else.
Putting even a sterilized spoon into a opened container of spawn is asking for more contamination. Unless you were opening it in front of a flow hood or still air box, which I doubt.
Trying to extract mold from a substrate with a spoon seems like a good idea. However, the reality is that mold has tiny microscopic spores that fly all over your substrate. So despite your removing what seems like the moldy spot, tons more mold spores have already begun to colonize the rest of your substrate. They are much faster than mushroom mycelium and it will never get a chance.
When you have a lot more experience you can spot mold by its characteristic look even before it turns blue/green. I've taken substate blocks outside and successfully carved off an end piece with pre-sporulating mold on it and fruited the rest of the block successfully. Outdoors.
Be mindful that opening a jar with mold inside the house can have lingering effects and contaminate future grows.
For fun, someday take a moldy sub outside, point downwind, and blow on it. A veritable CLOUD of dust will lift off! That's mold spores. It helps to know what you're up against!
I would start over if I were you and try doing the PF tek with cakes. You do want mushrooms at the end of this, right? Instead of being mad at everyone trying to help, make your next post "Hey, check out my pinset on these cakes!!" Don't give up!
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