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OfflineMalachi
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Registered: 06/19/02
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please read- thinking and destiny, crazy book I ran across-?
    #1841011 - 08/22/03 04:19 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

so I was sitting in my study, where my parents have all their books (or at least the ones we saved from this gigantic flood 4 years ago) and a big book (1000+ pages) called "thinking and destiny" caught my eye for some reason. It weird, cause the book was really close to the section that I usually browse through looking for new reading material. anyway... upon opening the book, I was pretty astounded by the claims of the author, harold w. percival. he basically claims to have the answer to existence (in a nutshell). it was written between the 20's-late 30's. anyway, since I've never come across such a serious claim presented in such a serious manner (no channeling or any other hack type stuff) I jumped on the net to see if I couldn't find criticism discrediting this guy as a relic, etc. well, I went on amazon and here is a excerpt of a review:
Quote:

Percival's "Thinking and Destiny" should end any serious seeker's search for accurate written information about life. The author demonstrates that he knows whereof he speaks. There is no fuzzy religious language and no speculations. Utterly unique in this genre, Percival has written what he knows, and he knows a great deal -- certainly more than any other known author. If you wonder about who you are, why you are here, the nature of the universe or the meaning of life then Percival will not let you down. Especially interesting are his numerous explanations that clarify such mysterious topics as original sin, immaculate conception, the fall of man and the reason for the sexes



and
Quote:

This book became my revelation. In it I found all final answers to my quest to find answers to what is life, what is death, what is a human being, what is purpose of life, what is Universe, etc., etc




sounds cultish, no? there are masonic connections, I think. anyway, there is a non profit set up for the disseminating of the ideas in this book that I believe has the entire book online - or at least very large portions of it. please someone check this out and tell me what you think.

this is the link


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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OfflineMalachi
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Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
Re: please read- thinking and destiny, crazy book I ran across-? [Re: Malachi]
    #1841433 - 08/22/03 06:49 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

ok.... what I meant by "please read" was really "please respond".


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: please read- thinking and destiny, crazy book I ran across-? [Re: Malachi]
    #1841594 - 08/22/03 07:45 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I'll check it out sometime in the near future..
Thanks for posting it.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Registered: 07/14/03
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Re: please read- thinking and destiny, crazy book I ran across-? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1841611 - 08/22/03 07:53 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

read the first chapter, quite interesting actually.  take a while to think about though :smile:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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InvisibleMystical_Craven
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Registered: 06/16/02
Posts: 439
Loc: Earth
Re: please read- thinking and destiny, crazy book I ran across-? [Re: Malachi]
    #1841615 - 08/22/03 07:55 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

What is it exactly you want people to respond with? I followed your link and found little more then a very brief summery stating vague claims about how the author was ahead of his time and so on and so forth...unless I missed something, I didn't see anything on that site that went into any of what the book had to offer, yet alone 'very large portions of it' Did you use the wrong link on accident, or something? Or did I overlook a link on the site that lead to this wealth of information you mentioned? Cause all I'm seeing is one link to order the book from, and another for copyright info.


--------------------


"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go..." T.S. Eliot


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: please read- thinking and destiny, crazy book I ran across-? [Re: Mystical_Craven]
    #1841802 - 08/22/03 09:05 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

on the upper left hand side of the page in toolbar form says the different chapters. there should be 25 of them, I'm currently on number 3 right now. wicked stuff


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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OfflineMalachi
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Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
Re: please read- thinking and destiny, crazy book I ran across-? [Re: kaiowas]
    #1842007 - 08/22/03 10:08 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I'm posting this basically because it's too good to be true. I'm looking for swami or dogomush or one of the other skeptics to confirm this. but as it stands... it seems like this guy has some kind of perspective that the rest of us don't.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: please read- thinking and destiny, crazy book I ran across-? [Re: Malachi]
    #1842255 - 08/22/03 11:13 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

super basic, but also dope as hell.

thanxfor the link. I know some people who could use these kinds of things explained in a very simple way.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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InvisibleZero7a1
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Re: please read- thinking and destiny, crazy book I ran across-? [Re: Malachi]
    #1842325 - 08/22/03 11:43 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

what if you did know those things for yourself, what would it prove useful for? I guess people think that they will be in heaven if they see it. But how could you believe that without not betraying other more important things. What makes this fishy is, why dont they adress the point of why these things are important in the first place. I mean all people want to understand things, but do people really know why they want to understand things. I wonder if thats what makes people slaves, never get people to question why they do the things they do, so they can go on quests looking for things they have no idea why they go looking for them, so they can forget about themselves or other people for that matter. I Dont know.


--------------------
What?


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InvisibleMystical_Craven
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Re: please read- thinking and destiny, crazy book I ran across-? [Re: kaiowas]
    #1842427 - 08/23/03 12:23 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

on the upper left hand side of the page in toolbar form says the different chapters. there should be 25 of them



Well, that explains it...all I'm seeing is a couple empty boxes with little red Xs in em (I just thought that was advertisments that weren't showing up or something) Maybe I gotta check my security settings or something.


--------------------


"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go..." T.S. Eliot


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: please read- thinking and destiny, crazy book I ran across-? [Re: Zero7a1]
    #1842471 - 08/23/03 12:45 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Zero7a1 said:
what if you did know those things for yourself, what would it prove useful for? I guess people think that they will be in heaven if they see it. But how could you believe that without not betraying other more important things. What makes this fishy is, why dont they adress the point of why these things are important in the first place. I mean all people want to understand things, but do people really know why they want to understand things. I wonder if thats what makes people slaves, never get people to question why they do the things they do, so they can go on quests looking for things they have no idea why they go looking for them, so they can forget about themselves or other people for that matter. I Dont know.




I like reading stuff like this because there can be many ideas that can be useful for everyday living in the now. Maybe there are three quadraints with 4 dividing planes in each of those quadraints, which each plane is sub-divided into space that is limitless, or maybe not. This is what I'm not interested in, nor what's importnant. just some of the ideas that I relate can be either called into question or solidified.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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OfflineMalachi
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Re: please read- thinking and destiny, crazy book I ran across-? [Re: kaiowas]
    #1842667 - 08/23/03 02:41 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

yeah, I really don't understand how someone who claims to offer all kinds of answers to man's search for meaning... the seeker seeks because if he has to, because to not understand that which is meaningful to you is to devalue that which you supposedly value. for example, love. if you say "I love you", then it behooves you to explore the meaning of those words. socrates (well, plato said he said it) best: the unexamined life isn't worth living.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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OfflineMalachi
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Re: please read- thinking and destiny, crazy book I ran across-? [Re: Malachi]
    #1842771 - 08/23/03 04:13 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I'm skipping around now.. it's so weird that this book is divided up all bible like.. I wonder if the masons use this book for their rituals


"Mystics usually hold the carnal body to be a hindrance to their seeing God and so seek to quiet it. They try to rise by interior processes of exaltation to ecstasy. When they are with God, as they call it, they have beatific visions and enjoy the rarest delights. They arrive at this state by what they call meditation, which is really suppressing their thinking. By the passive mental attitude, which is their kind of meditation, they would exalt the doer to the position of the knower and obscure the I-ness or identity of the knower in the ecstasy of feeling; this they call being in the presence of God, union with God, absorption in God. This state is one of experiencing; it is not one of learning or of knowing. It is only exalted feeling, though superphysical. Mystics believe that such "union with God" is the highest "spiritual" state which can be attained. They are mistaken; for the highest ecstasy reached by their kind of meditation is only psychic and not noetic. It has to do with feeling, and usually feeling that is concerned with the senses, such as visions or hearing celestial music. Their periods of ecstasy are followed by utter depression. When they have seen God or have had a revelation from him, as they say, such communion does not give them knowledge. It produces in them only a feeling. If they try to express something of their experiences, their language is obscure and often turgid."


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: please read- thinking and destiny, crazy book I ran across-? [Re: Malachi]
    #1842825 - 08/23/03 07:09 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mystics believe that such "union with God" is the highest "spiritual" state which can be attained. They are mistaken; for the highest ecstasy reached by their kind of meditation is only psychic and not noetic. It has to do with feeling, and usually feeling that is concerned with the senses, such as visions or hearing celestial music. Their periods of ecstasy are followed by utter depression. When they have seen God or have had a revelation from him, as they say, such communion does not give them knowledge. It produces in them only a feeling. If they try to express something of their experiences, their language is obscure and often turgid




I have never read of any mystics experiencing depression after ecstatic union with God. I mean, how could you be depressed after you've just come away from being with God?? Myself, I would be on a high for weeks, months, maybe years afterwards!

As for the language they use to describe their experience being "obscure", I imagine it would be difficult indeed to find mere words to relate an experience of God!

Anyway, I'm not being totally fair as I have not read the entire book- just the excerpt you posted. I will read the entire book before I comment again. That just struck me as odd is all.


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: please read- thinking and destiny, crazy book I ran acro [Re: Malachi]
    #1845021 - 08/24/03 09:23 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I read Chapter I and the first half of Chapter II before I quit reading. The first chapter had several intelligent statements that sounded promising. For example:

By nature is meant all that one can be made conscious of through the senses.

. . .

You are aware of your body, and of all else that is of nature, by means of the senses. It is only by means of your body senses that you are able at all to function in the physical world. You function by thinking. Your thinking is prompted by your feeling and your desire. Your feeling and desiring and thinking invariably manifest in bodily activity; physical activity is merely the expression, the exteriorization, of your inner activity. Your body with its senses is the instrument, the mechanism, which is impelled by your feeling and desire; it is your individual nature machine.

These are perhaps nothing more than trivial definitions, but it's refreshing to see such things explicitly stated in a spiritual text. However, between such lucid passages the author seems to be mostly rambling and preaching, without motivating his claims or motivating them with faulty reasoning, as in this case:

You should know that you are not your body; you should know that your body is not you. You should know this because, when you think about it, you realize that your body is very different today from what it was when, in childhood, you first became conscious of it.

My mind is also very different today. So by the same reasoning, I can't be my mind either. But there is a flaw in his logic here. Why would being different from time to time preclude something from being identified with "me"? The author makes the mistake of confusing constancy with identity.

I only found more and more similar claims out of the blue in chapter II, so I decided not to spend any more time reading the book, unless someone else can persuade me that it's worth doing.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: please read- thinking and destiny, crazy book I ran acro [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1845028 - 08/24/03 09:32 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Part of my identity is not always being consistent... I am too multi-faceted to always hold one idea or consistency...
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineDeiymiyan
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Re: please read- thinking and destiny, crazy book I ran acro [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1845131 - 08/24/03 12:05 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Those were two real neat passages you pulled out !!!



------------------------
Concerning this one:

"You should know that you are not your body; you should know that your body is not you. You should know this because, when you think about it, you realize that your body is very different today from what it was when, in childhood, you first became conscious of it."

Rhizoid: "My mind is also very different today. So by the same reasoning, I can't be my mind either. But there is a flaw in his logic here. Why would being different from time to time preclude something from being identified with "me"? "
------------------------------


That might very well be true, if you consider that you may not really be your physical-conscious mind...  A mind that absorbs and stores information such that at time t=0 [your birth] it was rather empty....

The "real you" that might be refered to here, is the sub-conscious you...  Where things may not, perhaps, change.



The physical mind as well as the physical body changes with respect to observed time...  That is a reflection of you as you grow on a physical plane... 



So what you see and experience while physically here, then, may perhaps not be from  the vantage point of the "real you", rather, as physics states while implying reflection...  "Imaginary" in relation to your "larger self"...

Then, although imaginary,  relative to your current focus and perception, it would then appear to seem as though your physical body was really you.

In reality though, you'd be watching in a safer evironment hidden from the dangers of this seemingly  "real world" .. VIA sub-consciousnes..


:eyemouth:


Then, the material things, really wouldn't matter...  But they can be fun and entertaining while you are here!

So.... Enjoy the Ride !





   


--------------------


Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..



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InvisibleClean
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Re: please read- thinking and destiny, crazy book I ran across-? [Re: Malachi]
    #1845137 - 08/24/03 12:10 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

.....never fully believe anyone else's B.S. (Belief System)  :eyemouth: 


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: please read- thinking and destiny, crazy book I ran acro [Re: Deiymiyan]
    #1845156 - 08/24/03 12:24 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Deiymiyan said:
So what you see and experience while physically here, then, may perhaps not be from the vantage point of the "real you", rather, as physics states while implying reflection... "Imaginary" in relation to your "larger self"...

Then, although imaginary, relative to your current focus and perception, it would then appear to seem as though your physical body was really you.

In reality though, you'd be watching in a safer evironment hidden from the dangers of this seemingly "real world" .. VIA sub-consciousnes..

Then, the material things, really wouldn't matter... But they can be fun and entertaining while you are here!
So.... Enjoy the Ride !




Our real selfs are are somewhere else, basically experiencing the Universe through these bodies.. and they aren't to set on the outcome of just one life, either.. It sort of puts things in perspective, when nothing around you really matters that much, it sort of allows you to focus on what you MAKE matter.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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