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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Independent Verification [Re: Swami]
    #1876202 - 09/02/03 11:37 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

It is not skeptics who are defrauding millions of people, now is it?





Both sides in the skeptics-believers war cause their own unique form of damage. For every person who gave their money to a medium there's probably one who lost their reason for living, however baseless it may have been, and fell into hopelessness, meaninglessness. How does this help anyone? True, both made their choices, but why be the one blowing the bubble or the one popping it? Let it be.

Quote:

Scientists are curious by nature.




Scientists are people and subject to all the flaws typical of human beings.
The best of them are indeed curious and open-minded. Too many are basically piling up evidence to support the current consensus reality which conveniently maintains their status in the scientific community. They create a chilling effect along the leading edge of science, but fortunately they do die out and make way for new discoveries.

Quote:

Taking the time and effort to investigate and the willingness to test out these claims shows a real interest.




Yes, but I don't see much evidence of that happening. What I do see is a lot of ridicule, and not much funding for research into these matters.


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Independent Verification [Re: Jellric]
    #1876271 - 09/03/03 12:06 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Both sides in the skeptics-believers war cause their own unique form of damage. For every person who gave their money to a medium there's probably one who lost their reason for living, however baseless it may have been, and fell into hopelessness, meaninglessness. How does this help anyone?
I fail to see how showing someone that a UFO was in reality a military flare is damaging. Illusion is more important than truth? How can one make rational decisions basing their life on falsehoods? ("I have to turn down this incredible job offer because my horoscope told me that now was not the time for change.")

True, both made their choices, but why be the one blowing the bubble or the one popping it? Let it be.
You desire no discussion on a discussion board? Is only cheer-leading allowed in your world-view?

What I do see is a lot of ridicule, and not much funding for research into these matters.
1. I have put up large sums of money on numerous occasions to validate/invalidate these claims.

2. Have travelled around the country (on my dime) researching wild claims (and finding ALL of them to be empty).

3. Are believers TOTALLY INCAPABLE of funding research that interests them? Do you believe they are so lost in a fantasy world so as to make it impossible to accrue the necessary education and material goods to follow their dream? That is what "normal" people do. If you do NOT mean this then what pray tell are you whining about? People are free to research whatever they so choose.




--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Independent Verification [Re: Swami]
    #1876423 - 09/03/03 01:28 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quit making sense... err... using rhetoric to ridicule others... err... stop the logic - it only kills the fantasy... err...;sdlfj;lajkl;jse;fjsd
---DOUBLETHINK-ERROR---DOUBLETHINK-ERROR---DOUBLETHINK-ERROR---
*Sclorch (who is actually a robot) simultaneously implodes and explodes*


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineRhizoid
carbon unit
Male

Registered: 01/22/00
Posts: 1,739
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 13 days, 7 hours
Re: Independent Verification [Re: MindTrap]
    #1876670 - 09/03/03 04:14 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Scientific reasoning currently has no use for spontaneous anecdotal evidence which is proven by your own logic in this debate. I suggest that there should be a scientific model which includes these anecdotal experiences instead of ignoring them.



Not true. Spontanous anecdotal evidence can always be categorized and classified scientifically according to categories defined by some theory. The same theory can of course also be tested through experiments, and this has been done for parapsychological theories during the past 73 years (since Rhine). Since no systematic effects were found, scientists have moved on to other things. A new theory of paranormal phenomena could revert this, since a new theory could prompt some new type of experiment that hasn't been carried out before.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: Independent Verification [Re: MindTrap]
    #1876719 - 09/03/03 04:42 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MindTrap said:
What should we do in the event that a supported belief is not available to account for our experience?





Then we don't make up a belief to explain it, as we have no way of knowing what is really going on...
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: Independent Verification [Re: Swami]
    #1876725 - 09/03/03 04:49 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
2. Have travelled around the country (on my dime) researching wild claims (and finding ALL of them to be empty).





Are you SURE that you aren't the guy who wrote the Powers of Mind book? You always remind me of him..
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/07/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Independent Verification [Re: Swami]
    #1877115 - 09/03/03 10:39 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

*shoots this thread in head with Charles Bronson's gun from Death Wish*

There.
I hopefully killed this thread while also working in a plug for Charles Bronson who died this week. RIP buddy.


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Independent Verification [Re: Jellric]
    #1877362 - 09/03/03 12:29 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Vengeance isn't particularly spiritual is it? Should we honor the "Death Wish" agenda where forgiveness is bypasssed in favor of bloodlust?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
Re: Independent Verification [Re: Swami]
    #1877813 - 09/03/03 02:26 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

James Randi has put up a prize of a million dollars to anyone who can prove a claim of the paranormal. Surely there is somebody out there who can rise to the challenge??


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
Re: Independent Verification [Re: Swami]
    #1877814 - 09/03/03 02:26 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

James Randi has put up a prize of a million dollars to anyone who can prove a claim of the paranormal. Surely there is somebody out there who can rise to the challenge??


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
Re: Independent Verification [Re: Swami]
    #1877816 - 09/03/03 02:26 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

James Randi has put up a prize of a million dollars to anyone who can prove a claim of the paranormal. Surely there is somebody out there who can rise to the challenge??


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Independent Verification [Re: GazzBut]
    #1877973 - 09/03/03 03:09 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Deja vu... vu...


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: Independent Verification [Re: Sclorch]
    #1878039 - 09/03/03 03:31 PM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Ahh yes, the fabled TRIPLE post.. I have heard of such through legends past down, but they provide very elusive in nature.. we should all cherish such a mystical occurence.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Independent Verification [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1879917 - 09/04/03 12:19 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

I like your humor. :smile:

*Puts on long white coat* Now I shall try to replicate this rare paranormal event in my lab. 


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
Re: Independent Verification [Re: Swami]
    #1880357 - 09/04/03 04:32 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

I only pressed that godamn button once! This truly is a miracle. I dont care what the skeptics say.


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: Independent Verification [Re: GazzBut]
    #1880453 - 09/04/03 06:19 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Well, a little humour every once and awhile is needed to lighten things up..

But seriously, now, shouldn't we try catching this beast before it escapes? We could do a LOT of tests on it, find out what makes the mechanism mechanize.. For the GOOD of humanity.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: Independent Verification [Re: GazzBut]
    #1880454 - 09/04/03 06:20 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Well, a little humor every once and awhile is needed to lighten things up..

But seriously, now, shouldn't we try catching this beast before it escapes? We could do a LOT of tests on it, find out what makes the mechanism mechanize.. For the GOOD of humanity.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: Independent Verification [Re: GazzBut]
    #1880455 - 09/04/03 06:20 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Well, a little humor every once and awhile is needed to lighten things up..

But seriously, now, shouldn't we try catching this beast before it escapes? We could do a LOT of tests on it, find out what makes the mechanism mechanize.. For the GOOD of humanity.
Peace..


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineMindTrap
Disembodiedvoice
Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 349
Loc: It's all in your head...
Last seen: 19 years, 2 months
Re: Independent Verification [Re: Swami]
    #1880545 - 09/04/03 07:53 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Do you have $10,000.00 to wager Swami? Perhaps I can find someone to work with me in developing this phenomena to the point of consistent reliability enough to satisfy your tests. This has been done before. Have you ever heard of the Philip experiment? Need independant verification of this phenomena? How about a reputable witness?

How about Stephen Braude, Professor of the philosophy department at the University of Maryland who became interested in the possibility of psychic phenomena only after experiencing for himself the levitation of a table during an impromptu seance he was introduced to by two of his friends. The results of which in his words "scared the hell out of me."


I really don't care about those guys. I am talking to YOU about YOUR claim. I made a public wager and am ready to back it up. I am NOT about spouting endless words, but about action and putting these things to a real-world test.

In three years, here is the math:

Shroomery members solid paranormal claims: 156

Swami Challenges: 38

Money Bet Takers: 1

Money Bet Failures: 1

Money Bet Renegers: 1

Friendly Challenge Takers: 24

Friendly Challenge Failures: 24

Will this time be ANY different? I think my fan club ALREADY knows the answer...




Before I even begin to read all of these responses I'd just like to suggest that you offer to donate that $10,000.00 to the JRF fund. Honestly if anyone were able to produce the consistent results that you demand they certainly wouldn't waste their time with your pitifull $10,000.00 when they could go for the big money. I know I wouldn't.

And what do you mean you don't care about those guys? Are you more interested in getting to the truth of the matter or in promoting your own personal ego here? Photographic and film evidence are not enough for you? How about 50 eye-witnesses to an event of levitation which was heavily scrutinized by the experts and still remains an enigma to this day? How about a refereed professional paper on the results of this experiment published in the Australian Journal of Psychical Research (an offshoot of the SPR which is probably the most respected organization studying these phenomena with a history of over 100 years of consistently thorough research in the field of parapsycholgy) How about repeatablity? This experiment has been repeated by several groups around the world with similarly striking results.

Let's not ignore these facts just because they are inconvenient or they might place into question your apparently godly wisdom.


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OfflineMindTrap
Disembodiedvoice
Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 349
Loc: It's all in your head...
Last seen: 19 years, 2 months
Re: Independent Verification [Re: Swami]
    #1880553 - 09/04/03 07:59 AM (20 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
And skeptics, get off your high horse.
It is not skeptics who are defrauding millions of people, now is it?





I would disagree! Who is the one with the $1,000,000.00 up for grabs? James Randi is as much a sensationalist as Uri Gellar ever was. Your dogged loyalty to these spoon fed text book ideas appear very similar to religious faith to me.


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