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OfflineAsurian
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myc questions
    #18394576 - 06/09/13 09:30 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I'm a noob when it comes to mycelium so if you could answer with simple answers that would be great!
I lost my last post so I'm making all my questionable questions In one thread to reduce space, if this is the wrong thread please direct me to the correct one!

First question, once a jar is fully grown with myc, is it possible to spread the myc from that one jar into 4 other jars?(in a sterile space, these other jars of verm have been thru the pc) and let them fully collinize also? ---round about way of making one jars worth of spores into 4- doable?

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Re: myc questions [Re: Asurian]
    #18394599 - 06/09/13 09:34 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Asurian said:
I'm a noob when it comes to mycelium so if you could answer with simple answers that would be great!
I lost my last post so I'm making all my questionable questions In one thread to reduce space, if this is the wrong thread please direct me to the correct one!

First question, once a jar is fully grown with myc, is it possible to spread the myc from that one jar into 4 other jars?(in a sterile space, these other jars of verm have been thru the pc) and let them fully collinize also? ---round about way of making one jars worth of spores into 4- doable?




You can do this with grain, is called a grain to grain transfer, or G2G for short. Unfortunately this will rarely work for cakes. It will be difficult to effectively transfer the colonized brf into another brf mix while maintaining sterility.

Edit; You could transfer a cake like that to a pf sub in a bag, but I still see it as a major vector for contams.

Edited by Pastywhyte (06/09/13 10:34 PM)

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OfflineTrippy_Penguin
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Re: myc questions [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #18394624 - 06/09/13 09:40 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

:whathesaid:

I found the jump from BRF to rye grains to be very simple and I've found rye grains to be easier and less time consuming.

Do some reading on G2G and if you feel comfortable, make the jump to grains and bulk.

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OfflineAsurian
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Re: myc questions [Re: Trippy_Penguin]
    #18394657 - 06/09/13 09:50 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

My thoughts were towards casting and the way it worked. Also towards how the cakes can fight off contams once birthed due to the myc links being stong enough. I would have done this in a 100% sterile place like a glovebox. I guess I just don't see why this couldn't be done since the new jar would be sterile and have nuets for growth.

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Re: myc questions [Re: Asurian]
    #18394680 - 06/09/13 09:55 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I'm assuming you're following PF tek in which case the dry verm layer would get in your way. Grain jars can be broken up so you can simply tip them and dump out grains. BRF jars come out whole (cakes) and are fairly difficult to break them up. It's not that it couldn't be done, but it would be very difficult to actually break off a piece of the cake and successfully transfer it to another jar. Also, the fully colonized cake is quite resistent to any contaminants, but the jar you're introducing it to is not.

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OfflineAsurian
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Re: myc questions [Re: Trippy_Penguin]
    #18394716 - 06/09/13 10:06 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Ok, not trying to ride a dead horse but contams arnt really my issue, and there would be no dry verm layer in the fresh jars I would use tyvek. The part about the cake being to hard is a good point..would testing this be better if the jar wasn't fully colonized? Like after 50%

Ok next question, when casing you put verm on the bottom and top of the broken down myc (more on the bottom and the top would be the peatmoss mix to) does this verm/vermpeatmoss need to be pc'ed?

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OfflineCMOS
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Re: myc questions [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #18394745 - 06/09/13 10:15 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I've done PF cakes to other jars of PF. In a glovebox I dumped out the layer of verm from the spawn jar, then took a sterile spoon (wrapped in foil and PCed) and took a chunk of the colonized spawn to another pf jar.  ( the transfer jar did not have a verm layer on top tho )

Worked fine, but doing grain to grain is much easier, and colonizes alot faster too.

Actually now that I think back, I don't think I ever did my PF jars with a verm contam barrier on top, I just opened them up to inoculate with a multispore or I covered my needle hole with some micropore tape after injecting.


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OfflineCMOS
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Re: myc questions [Re: Asurian]
    #18394764 - 06/09/13 10:19 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

No wait till its 100%

Are you trying to break up some rice/verm cakes and make a tray out of them with a casing layer? 

Don't put any verm on the bottom of your tray.  If  your trying to case your tray with verm/peatmoss, don't PC it, pasteurize it at around 150F for an hour.


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OfflineAsurian
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Re: myc questions [Re: CMOS]
    #18394780 - 06/09/13 10:22 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Did they grow properly? I was thinking, that if done properly then you could break up the myc (just like a casing) all withen a glovebox or sterile ziplock. Then thransfer 1/4 that cake to other sterile nuetrient filled jars and allow for re-colinizing

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OfflineAsurian
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Re: myc questions [Re: Asurian]
    #18394788 - 06/09/13 10:24 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Then taking the finished 4 cakes and casing them (1/2 pint)

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OfflineCMOS
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Re: myc questions [Re: Asurian]
    #18394901 - 06/09/13 10:52 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I've heard of people breaking them up in a ziplock before, and spawning that to another jar.  I don't know how your get a ziplock sterile tho, unless they come out of the bag clean?

When you say casing, I think you actually mean just a nutritious substrate. A casing is a thin non-nutritious layer that helps provide a nice microclimate for pinning and fruiting.  Its generally not needed with cubes unless your fruiting conditions aren't ideal.


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OfflineAsurian
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Re: myc questions [Re: CMOS]
    #18395092 - 06/09/13 11:46 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Spray it down with bleach water then close it, and move around Wats in the bag till its gone.

And no I meant casing like, spreading out the mycelium ontop of vermite with a pestmoss/vermite top... unless I'm wrong and that isn't it.

Iv also seen a video with someone putting 4 full cakes into a bin ontop of verm, surrounding the cakes with some verm. And toping them with the peatmoss mix, would this work? Casing without breaking apart the cakes

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Re: myc questions [Re: Asurian]
    #18395129 - 06/09/13 11:56 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

yeah but then you may as well just leave them in the jars:shrug:


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OfflineAsurian
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Re: myc questions [Re: cronicr]
    #18397368 - 06/10/13 01:30 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Instead of what?

Also a question on flushing.
What is it exactly? Iv gathered that its were you pick the shrooms to allow more to grow?

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OfflineOne Love
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Re: myc questions [Re: Asurian]
    #18397415 - 06/10/13 01:46 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

A flush is the yield of fruits you get. After picking a bunch of mature fruits, leaving none left that would be considered the first flush. If more grow after, those fruits would be the second flush, and so forth.

I would not recommend using any substrate, or vermiculite that has not been sterilized in some way. The reason they are sterilized is because of any contaminant endospores that exist in the vermiculite (or whatever you are using) - contams that come from fabrics, air, skin, hair etc are just other possibilities from where contaminants come from - but sterilized jars with substrate in them should ensure that are already present are killed off. And even after that there is always a risk that not all have died (?) or that new contams will be introduced.

BRF cakes will be like one solid mushroom textured cake once fully colonized. As sterile and careful as you may be, to truly break off a piece it might be best to cut at it with a sterile scalpel or something. But it is a risk. And as you can see, no one really does transfers from brf cakes. You could take the cakes into a completely sterile lab room and juggle them about, toss them at the wall etc - you can do whatever you want. It's the risk. So if you want to take that risk, and the jars get contaminated or do not colonize, don't be surprised. Even if they were a success, I would still credit it to luck.
If you would like to transfer jar to jar, then go out and buy some grains! It's easier, less time consuming, and more convenient than pf tek in my opinion.

If you try to break off a piece of a colonized cake, you risk not only the new jar being contaminated but the first one as well. Then you would have to throw them both out.
For experimental purposes, which I like to do myself sometimes, I maybe make an extra jar or two for that sole intention, to play with. Good luck!!


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Re: myc questions [Re: One Love]
    #18397437 - 06/10/13 01:50 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

there are no endo spores in verm:cool:


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OfflineAsurian
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Re: myc questions [Re: cronicr]
    #18397445 - 06/10/13 01:52 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for the well written post! I appreciate all info given :smile:

Soo you don't think that the fully colonized brf cakes would be strong enough to fight of any contams in unsterilized verm? Iv just been under the impression that when casing with the verm it doesn't need to be pc'ed

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OfflineAsurian
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Re: myc questions [Re: cronicr]
    #18397454 - 06/10/13 01:53 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
there are no endo spores in verm:cool:




I was thinking that, don't those mainly exist in rye? That's why you soak them, to germinate the endospores to be killed by the pc, right? Correct me if I'm wrong

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Re: myc questions [Re: Asurian]
    #18397465 - 06/10/13 01:55 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

nope your right, but we soak to hydrate the endospores germinating is a bonus:cool:


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OfflineOne Love
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Re: myc questions [Re: cronicr]
    #18397480 - 06/10/13 01:59 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
there are no endo spores in verm:cool:



Apologies, the terminology.  I thank you for speaking up so I can not embarrass myself in the future.
However, I am a bit more paranoid than most. I have a colorful imagination and I often think people roll about in the verm, spit in it, who knows what between the timeline of it getting shipped to the store until it is in my hands. The same for any other store bought, packaged product...You never know right? Maybe someone sneezed....ew. Either way - why risk using something that you didn't sterilize yourself?


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