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OfflineTalesfromtheTrypt
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Trying to get the timing right... advice?
    #18394714 - 06/09/13 10:05 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I inoculated 12 BRF jars a few weeks ago, 1 contammed, of the remaining 11 jars 6 have fully colonized in the past week and 3 are slowly finishing up, hopefully within a week, but 2 are taking a lot longer than the rest, mycelial growth is almost at a standstill. So what I want to know is can I stick those 2 in the FC when the rest are ready, even if they're still not 100% colonized, or should I just let them sit until they're ready while the rest fruit? I don't want the rest to wait too long for those last 2, the jar that colonized fastest is already pinning, how much longer is the max I should wait? First 2 pics are the slow jars, about 66% done and 75% done, and the 3rd pic is the jar that finished first about 8 days ago.







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OfflineBuddyGreen
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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: TalesfromtheTrypt]
    #18394748 - 06/09/13 10:15 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

just fruit them as they finish/consolidate.  it's unlikely that they'll finish at the same exact time, but it's not going to harm anything to fruit them as they're ready.

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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: BuddyGreen]
    #18394935 - 06/09/13 11:00 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

that middle one looks iffy


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OfflineMidgetPawn
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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: cronicr]
    #18395308 - 06/10/13 12:51 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Just to be clear on something for his situation. I'm going to have to know this soon.

Before any FC step, He has the option of taking out the fully colonized cakes and dunking them in room temperature water for 24 hours(out of sunlight?) and leaving the others to continue mycelium growth, right?

If yes to dunking the the fully colonized cakes pre FC, then what if he were planning on casing his cakes. would he still dunk the cakes before putting them in a casing layer? or just either crumble, cut, or put the cakes in casing whole WITHOUT dunking or dunk then put in casing. Also which method is proven best for largest yields crumbling, cutting width or length wise, or just putting whole cakes in casing.

I'd appreciate as many answers as possible =)Sorry for sort of using your thread for my question, but any answers I get help you somehow.


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Offlineganjfather
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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: MidgetPawn]
    #18395344 - 06/10/13 12:59 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

OP, don't spawn to your fruiting chamber until they are 100% colonized. It's good to wait 1 to 2 weeks after full colonization before spawning, because it makes sure that the center of your cake is also fully colonized.

Why can't you spawn the cakes that are ready now, and then spawn your other cakes when they are ready? That would make sense to me.

Fully colonized jars can wait for a while too, I've left fully colonized jars for over a month before spawning due to extreme laziness, and they had no problem.


Also, if a jar stalls out, it usually is due to contamination. Sucks, but about 85% of the time, that is why your growth has stalled. I'd let those jars wait another 1-2 weeks, but if they don't fully colonize by then, toss em.


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Offlinenewera
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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: MidgetPawn]
    #18395346 - 06/10/13 12:59 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

yesyou can fruit them as there ready, as long as it isn't direct sunlight go for it(and by direct i mean even a window closed will be indirect)
and i would always dunk...however i would never crumble and case you will do better just dunking and rolling or spawning the cakes to a bulk sub.

and we don't call them casings there bulk subs or trays , a casing layer is what we put on top of fruiting grains

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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: ganjfather]
    #18395516 - 06/10/13 01:49 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ganjfather said:
OP, don't spawn to your fruiting chamber until they are 100% colonized. It's good to wait 1 to 2 weeks after full colonization before spawning, because it makes sure that the center of your cake is also fully colonized.



Fruiting cakes as cakes in a fruiting chamber is not considered "spawning" them, just birthing and fruiting.... we do not need to confuse anyone here.

When spawning to bulk, you do not need to give them a week for consolidation, just birth and spawn at full colonization.

Also, consolidation is not to make sure the center is fully colonized, that is not what consolidation is.

Consolidation is giving the mycellium time to digest the nutritious substrate.

If the outside of the jar is 100%, then chances are so is the inside....mycellium grows in a 3D spherical pattern.

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OfflineMidgetPawn
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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: newera]
    #18395650 - 06/10/13 02:39 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

newera said:

and we don't call them casings there bulk subs or trays , a casing layer is what we put on top of fruiting grains




Ah thanks. Yea I'm so new to any of these words. Well can I ask then... If I wanted to put 2 or 3 cakes in a 50/50 tray, would dunking even be a part of that process? Honestly I'd just like to grow straight cakes, but half my jars are 1/4 pint and pretty small So I'd like to put them in trays. So dunk then mix however into 50/50 tray? or mix in 50/50 tray then dunk that when its colonized?

I'm getting the impression that a lot of what I read was outdated. Sorry if it's frustrating answering this stuff. I'll have it all figured out soon enough.

I appreciate the help.


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OfflinecronicrMFacebook
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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: MidgetPawn]
    #18395662 - 06/10/13 02:44 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

no it's not all that frustrating, least you got a general idea , the dunking is up to you but not neccesary. no need to dunk your bulk before the first flush


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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: MidgetPawn]
    #18395678 - 06/10/13 02:49 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MidgetPawn said:
If I wanted to put 2 or 3 cakes in a 50/50 tray, would dunking even be a part of that process?



You can dunk the cakes before breaking them up and spawning, but what do you mean by a 50/50 tray?

Spawn them to a bulk substrate, such as coir/verm/manure/straw/etc.

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OfflineMidgetPawn
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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: MidgetPawn]
    #18395687 - 06/10/13 02:54 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

also on the topic of timing.. and just to make sure I understand this... When people say consolidate for a week after theres 100% mycelium growth on cakes, that just means to let them sit where they were for another week? in indirect light of course.

And when you say you don't consolidate in bulk and spawn them at full colonization, that also applies to if I were to put the cakes in a tray of 50/50 or whatever? My understanding is that you put the tray in the FC when there are several spots of mycelium sticking out of the top, and cover up and premature spots with verm.

I really appreciate the help. Hope I'm not too off topic of the thread


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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: MidgetPawn]
    #18395704 - 06/10/13 02:59 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MidgetPawn said:
also on the topic of timing.. and just to make sure I understand this... When people say consolidate for a week after theres 100% mycelium growth on cakes, that just means to let them sit where they were for another week? in indirect light of course.



Yes, just let them sit there for another week before birthing.

This gives the mycellium time to "digest" or "take hold of" the nutritious substrate.

Some people have found that longer consolidation times for cakes gives better flushes.

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OfflineMidgetPawn
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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: PussyFart]
    #18395707 - 06/10/13 03:00 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

MidgetPawn said:
If I wanted to put 2 or 3 cakes in a 50/50 tray, would dunking even be a part of that process?



what do you mean by a 50/50 tray?





specifically what I am under the impression I want to do to turn my little cakes into a larger tray of mycelium for later spawning/fruiting is what I think I've seen called 50/50 tek. Where I take the fully colonized caked and optionally dunk them, then either break them up on a layer of a mix of verm and peat moss or just put the cakes on top of a layer of peat moss(50?)and verm(the other 50?)and then add more peat moss and verm on top of the broken up or whole cakes so the mycelium spreads to the peat moss and verm(also with a ph buffer)


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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: MidgetPawn]
    #18395722 - 06/10/13 03:05 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

That is called casing cakes, or just adding a casing layer, and there is no real benefit to it.

Evenly mix the broken up dunked cakes with a bulk substrate material for best results, and the most bang for your buck.

There are plenty of teks in my signature.

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OfflineMidgetPawn
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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: MidgetPawn]
    #18395725 - 06/10/13 03:06 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

like right now if I had 3 100% colonized 1/4 pint jars, since they are too small I would dunk them for 24 hours, then go get a tray and make a mix of peat moss, vermiculite, and calcium carbonate then put a layer however thick in the tray, then either break up the cakes or just put the cakes in as they on top of the layer already in the tray, then cover the rest of the tray with the rest of the peat moss and vermiculite and put it back to colonize some more.

is that the right thing?


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OfflineMidgetPawn
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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: PussyFart]
    #18395731 - 06/10/13 03:08 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:

Evenly mix the broken up dunked cakes with a bulk substrate material for best results, and the most bang for your buck.quote]


Well the vermiculite, peat moss and calcium carbonate would be my bulk substrate material in this case. I think.

Honestly I'd just put the cakes in the FC as is if they wernt so small.


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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: MidgetPawn]
    #18395737 - 06/10/13 03:12 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

No, peat and calcium carbonate are casing layer materials, not bulk substrate materials.

Forget all about casing layers, and the materials needed for them.

Get some verm, and some coir or manure, and pasteurize it.

Then mix the cakes evenly(no layering) with the pasteurized bulk substrate material.

But if you only have 3 1/4 pint cakes, you need very little bulk substrate material, because you want to keep a high spawn to substrate ratio, for descent colonization times.

Honestly, I would just fruit them as cakes, if you are only going to have 3 of them.

Get 15-20 of them and make a nice sized tray/tub.

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OfflinecronicrMFacebook
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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: PussyFart]
    #18395763 - 06/10/13 03:24 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

:jacked:


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OfflineMidgetPawn
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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: PussyFart]
    #18395768 - 06/10/13 03:25 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
No, peat and calcium carbonate are casing layer materials, not bulk substrate materials.

Forget all about casing layers, and the materials needed for them.

Get some verm, and some coir or manure, and pasteurize it.

Then mix the cakes evenly(no layering) with the pasteurized bulk substrate material.

But if you only have 3 1/4 pint cakes, you need very little bulk substrate material, because you want to keep a high spawn to substrate ratio, for descent colonization times.

Honestly, I would just fruit them as cakes, if you are only going to have 3 of them.

Get 15-20 of them and make a nice sized tray/tub.




Well I'm potentially going to have 8 1/4 pint jars if none contaminate. I was just using 3 as an example because it's how many I planned to put in a casing layer. Was going to do 2 trays with 3 cakes each then just try leaving the other 2 cakes as is. Kind of experiment a little. Also I have 4 pints I am going to leave as cakes.

What would be wrong with a casing layer though? I just wanted to have a nice flat surface for the mushrooms instead of extra tiny little cakes. I still will have at least 2 tiny cakes to see how they come out. I could also try a bulk substrate out of the 8 small 1/4 pint cakes if I can get the materials.

My biggest problem at the moment is limited resources, but I have everything I need for what I mentioned doing.


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OfflineMidgetPawn
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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: cronicr]
    #18395773 - 06/10/13 03:28 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
:jacked:



=x I know. sorry


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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: MidgetPawn]
    #18395774 - 06/10/13 03:28 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Do it then...but there will be no big difference in yield vs fruiting them as cakes.

Might as well just fruit them as cakes if your not spawning to a bulk substrate.

But that's just :2cents:

Try casing a few of them, and fruiting a few of them...mix it up and experience both ways.

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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: MidgetPawn]
    #18395776 - 06/10/13 03:29 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

The biggest motivating factor for doing a casing layer besides having tiny cakes is that I bought a 10 lb huge bag of peat moss.


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OfflineMidgetPawn
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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: MidgetPawn]
    #18395781 - 06/10/13 03:30 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Gotcha. thanks a lot for the help and advice


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OfflineTalesfromtheTrypt
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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: MidgetPawn]
    #18400710 - 06/11/13 12:22 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for the help guys, and no worries about the other discussion, as long as it's constructive I don't care what goes into my threads.

For some reason (must have read it somewhere) I was under the impression that it's beneficial to have many cakes in the fruiting chamber, and in close proximity to one another, to help keep the rH up. But when I think about it the logic doesn't hold up. If we're doing everything we can to keep the cakes moist, and they're absorbing the ambient humidity in the chamber, how would putting more cakes in there, and especially in close proximity to one another, do anything but lessen the humidity available to each cake? So anyway, I'm gonna give it till the 15th then dunk and roll the first 6 at the same time just to make it easier to keep track of them, the next 3 will come about a week later hopefully, and I guess the verdict is out on the last 2. Thanks again for the advice everyone. Btw, some of these jars are starting to show a lot of pins, just want to confirm that they can go another 4 days without any problems.


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OfflineTalesfromtheTrypt
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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: TalesfromtheTrypt]
    #18400785 - 06/11/13 12:32 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Oh yeah, also a specific question about dunking. The chlorine content in my tap water has gone up lately for some reason, enough to fuck up some of my plants for a couple weeks until I figured it out, so is it safe for rinsing and dunking, or should I use distilled water?


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Offlineganjfather
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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: TalesfromtheTrypt]
    #18400916 - 06/11/13 12:54 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

It is really hard to say unless you tested all the levels of your tap water and all that. I always use tap water and have no problems with it at all. If you feel it will be a problem use bottled water.


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Offlineinvitro


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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: MidgetPawn]
    #18401059 - 06/11/13 01:20 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

My concern with birthing a partially colonized cake would be that the grains that are not colonized are high in nutrient value and highly subject to contamination.  They might contaminate before the mushroom mycelium has a chance to take over.  Best to leave it in the jar I think. I am new to this myself so you'll want an expert to verify that.
:speechless:

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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: invitro]
    #18402218 - 06/11/13 09:53 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

invitro said:
My concern with birthing a partially colonized cake would be that the grains that are not colonized are high in nutrient value and highly subject to contamination.  They might contaminate before the mushroom mycelium has a chance to take over.  Best to leave it in the jar I think. I am new to this myself so you'll want an expert to verify that.
:speechless:





If for some odd reason you would birth a cake that is not fully colonized, cut off the area that is uncolonized first.

I would never recommend birthing a cake that isn't ready, however.


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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: invitro]
    #18402334 - 06/11/13 10:29 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

invitro said:
My concern with birthing a partially colonized cake would be that the grains that are not colonized are high in nutrient value and highly subject to contamination.  They might contaminate before the mushroom mycelium has a chance to take over.  Best to leave it in the jar I think. I am new to this myself so you'll want an expert to verify that.
:speechless:



exactly this, but most of the time when something isn't colonized it's already contamed


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OfflineTalesfromtheTrypt
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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: ganjfather]
    #18409152 - 06/12/13 03:18 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ganjfather said:
It is really hard to say unless you tested all the levels of your tap water and all that. I always use tap water and have no problems with it at all. If you feel it will be a problem use bottled water.




I'll probably just leave some water out for 24 hrs and let the chlorine dissipate.

As far as the other jars, they may have contaminated but I see no signs other than slowed growth, I think maybe I packed in the substrate too loosely, I wanted to make sure I didn't pack it in too tight so I probably overcompensated. I'll keep a close eye on those 2.


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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: TalesfromtheTrypt]
    #18409212 - 06/12/13 03:37 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

TalesfromtheTrypt said:
The chlorine content in my tap water has gone up lately for some reason, enough to fuck up some of my plants for a couple weeks until I figured it out, so is it safe for rinsing and dunking, or should I use distilled water?



Quote:

TalesfromtheTrypt said:
I'll probably just leave some water out for 24 hrs and let the chlorine dissipate.




I used to live in Chicago, where they bleach the fuck out of the water supply, to the point where my kitchen smelled like a public pool sometimes.

I used tap water for everything in this hobby, with 0 issues.

No need to let the water sit out, just use it.

Edited by PussyFart (07/14/13 02:14 AM)

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OfflineTalesfromtheTrypt
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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: PussyFart]
    #18409992 - 06/12/13 06:33 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for the reassurance man, it's funny you say that because I first figured out the problem when I flushed the toilet and it smelled just like a damn swimming pool.


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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: TalesfromtheTrypt]
    #18425298 - 06/15/13 10:10 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

So I started the dunk and roll today for the first 6 jars, I found this first, which was both reassuring and delicious



But the 6th jar looked like this


It's got pins all over the place, but that verm layer doesn't look good to me. Can someone confirm that that's contam?

Edit: Posting this is Contamination forum just because I need to know whether or not to dunk asap.


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Edited by TalesfromtheTrypt (06/16/13 12:19 PM)

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OfflineTalesfromtheTrypt
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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: TalesfromtheTrypt]
    #18442091 - 06/19/13 12:11 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Turns out I have no contams, birthed the first 6, here's one of the 3 that are consolidating, one end of this cake colonized way faster than the other side, and then this happened. Now that's a thing of beauty.



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Edited by TalesfromtheTrypt (06/19/13 03:34 PM)

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OfflineTalesfromtheTrypt
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Re: Trying to get the timing right... advice? [Re: TalesfromtheTrypt]
    #18443040 - 06/19/13 03:41 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Also, my first pins in the FC





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