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igCorcaigh



Registered: 06/17/12
Posts: 1,688
Loc: Ireland
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: How scary can a trip be? [Re: s240779]
#18389831 - 06/08/13 09:13 PM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
240779 said: And Hofmann in "Problem Child" says that animals have died while on LSD, usually as a result of cardiac arrest.
LOL! What dosage. LD50 studies maybe?
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 3 months, 3 days
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Re: How scary can a trip be? [Re: igCorcaigh]
#18389858 - 06/08/13 09:18 PM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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Indeed.
From the book ->
Quote:
The toxicity of LSD has been determined in various animal species. A standard for the toxicity of a substance is the LD 50 , or the median lethal dose, that is, the dose with which 50 percent of the treated animals die. In general it fluctuates broadly, according to the animal species, and so it is with LSD. The LD 50 for the mouse amounts to 50-60 mg/kg. i.v. (that is, 50 to 60 thousandths of a gram of LSD per kilogram of animal weight upon injection of an LSD solution into the veins). In the rat the LD 50 drops to 16.5 mg/kg, and in rabbits to 0.3 mg/kg. One elephant given 0.297 g of LSD died after a few minutes. The weight of this animal was determined to be 5,000 kg, which corresponds to a lethal dose of 0.06 mg/kg (0.06 thousandths of a gram per kilogram of body weight). Because this involves only a single case, this value cannot be generalized, but we can at least deduce from it that the largest land animal reacts proportionally very sensitively to LSD, since the lethal dose in elephants must be some 1,000 times lower than in the mouse. Most animals die from a lethal dose of LSD by respiratory arrest. The minute doses that cause death in animal experiments may give the impression that LSD is a very toxic substance. However, if one compares the lethal dose in animals with the effective dose in human beings, which is 0.0003-0.001 mg/kg (0.0003 to 0.001 thousandths of a gram per kilogram of body weight), this shows an extraordinarily low toxicity for LSD. Only a 300- to 600-fold overdose of LSD, compared to the lethal dose in rabbits, or fully a 50,000- to 100,000fold overdose, in comparison to the toxicity in the mouse, would have fatal results in human beings. These comparisons of relative toxicity are, to be sure, only understandable as estimates of orders of magnitude, for the determination of the therapeutic index (that is, the ratio between the effective and the lethal dose) is only meaningful within a given species. Such a procedure is not possible in this case because the lethal dose of LSD for humans is not known. To my knowledge, there have not as yet occurred any casualties that are a direct consequence of LSD poisoning. Numerous episodes of fatal consequences attributed to LSD ingestion have indeed been recorded, but these were accidents, even suicides, that may be attributed to the mentally disoriented condition of LSD intoxication. The danger of LSD lies not in its toxicity, but rather in the unpredictability of its psychic effects.
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itsaconspiracy
governments worst nightmare



Registered: 03/26/13
Posts: 2,807
Loc: florida
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: How scary can a trip be? [Re: igCorcaigh]
#18389861 - 06/08/13 09:19 PM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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naw dude you won't die you just feel like you might and lsd is safe as long as you don't have any mental problems your good but that sounds like they OD those mice.
-------------------- ("i'm not a criminal i just like stuff thats not mine") "bender"
 
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smiggert
Thunderbolt steers all things



Registered: 02/27/13
Posts: 197
Loc: Ireland
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: How scary can a trip be? [Re: Hierophant]
#18389887 - 06/08/13 09:23 PM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hierophant said:
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smiggert said:
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Hierophant said:
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Dark_Star said: Your consciousness leaves your body & fucks around somewhere else.
yep
which can be scary if you think your body stopped breathing and you are going to lose it forever 
but "you" the witness still exists as a form of awareness so its not a fear of death or oblivion just a fear of losing ones physical vessel and entering into a an unfamiliar state of being
when faced with the parting of my self from my body, just at that moment, I thought I had stopped breathing, freaked out and panicked thinking I was going to lose my body forever; i pulled myself back into my body, forcing myself to breath (i was hyperventilating)... the trip turned a little sour after that but at least my body didnt die... some times i wonder what would have happened if i had just let go. im afraid to take a dose that high again. I want to overcome this anxiety i have towards it now but im not sure how.
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nicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard



Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 33,241
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Re: How scary can a trip be? [Re: smiggert]
#18389926 - 06/08/13 09:32 PM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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I've had times where I wasn't sure I was going to be able to get back to my body. Pretty crazy
-------------------- "Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lily
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itsaconspiracy
governments worst nightmare



Registered: 03/26/13
Posts: 2,807
Loc: florida
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Quote:
nicechrisman said: I've had times where I wasn't sure I was going to be able to get back to my body. Pretty crazy
ya but some how the trip always brings you home
-------------------- ("i'm not a criminal i just like stuff thats not mine") "bender"
 
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 3 months, 3 days
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Do you think it's possible to go permanently insane from a trip?
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itsaconspiracy
governments worst nightmare



Registered: 03/26/13
Posts: 2,807
Loc: florida
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: How scary can a trip be? [Re: s240779]
#18390027 - 06/08/13 09:55 PM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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no you only go insane if your insane in the first place= you had a mental problem to begin with
-------------------- ("i'm not a criminal i just like stuff thats not mine") "bender"
 
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MagicalOrangutan
Curious Cat



Registered: 06/29/12
Posts: 3,538
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Oh, just the fear that you're physically dying, or that you're permanently altered and will always feel the extreme mind warp that you're currently on. Quite terrifying
-------------------- On the ground you lay, with your dogs you pray, at a neon hieroglyph sky you gaze Hugging your mind, praying to survive, feeling the love of the hieroglyphs in the sky We all need more love, and mainly less hate Hate is the blind that covers the heart's eye That makes the heart's eye cry Locked deep away in the skies of our minds It's all in the mind
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Fryingmantis
Searching
Registered: 03/10/12
Posts: 322
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Re: How scary can a trip be? [Re: Dark_Star]
#18390685 - 06/09/13 12:30 AM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dark_Star said: Re-living past lives & deaths, various traumatic memories from this life, experiencing decay, thinking the cops are on their way, seeing the flashing lights & hearing the cars pull up & the helicopter circling overhead, seeing & feeling things that are straight up horrifying, etc.....your worst fears come alive. All of that is terrifying. Seeing yourself as being caught up in endless cycle of life, death & rebirth, with no escape from suffering. That's scary. Seeing the darkest aspects of yourself right brought bare before you. Seeing yourself fuck up again & again, in life, after life, after life...repeating the same damn mistakes. Seeing the reality of the fact that we exist, that there may be more to life than what we realize.... If you go on enough heavy trips the odds are that you'll experience some of these things, and odds are that they'll scare the shit out of you. This isn't just the nature of tripping; it's the nature of life. Life itself can be very scary, as well as very beautiful. Fear is a natural part of being alive. It's what you do with it, and what you learn from it that counts.
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cubehead87
I love DMT


Registered: 11/12/09
Posts: 286
Loc: Somewhere in hyperspace
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
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infinite thought loops. loss of time. not knowing the people around you, even tho theyre close friends.
ive thought i was dead on acid, because time ceased to exist and i thought could this be death??
mushrooms have taken me to some of the most wonderful places, and frightening ones also.
one time i smoked some left over dmt that had been sitting in a pipe for a few days.i instantly seen my living room turn into an alien landscape, that of something similar to the war of the worlds scene where tom cruise comes out of the house after he kills the guy, and there is blood, veins and all kinds of crazy shit stretched across the land and trees, as it pulsated and came to life. i curled up in the fetal position and covered my face because i wanted it to stop.
shit can get real scary, real quick if you dont play your cards right
-------------------- "Outside is pure energy and colorless substance. All of the rest happens through the mechanism of our senses. Our eyes see just a small fraction of the light in the world. It is a trick to make a colored world, which does not exist outside of human beings." - Albert Hoffman
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HuskyKing
Explorer



Registered: 05/18/13
Posts: 105
Loc: California
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
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For me I remember on 25i I had a huge panic attack and kept thinking I would get caught.... Evil and horrific images kept entering my head and plaguing my thoughts...
Also on top of that there was a demon laughing at me inside my head throughout the trip...
I remember I asked my friend over 20 times when the trip would end and how I can stop the trip.... I wanted my friend to call the cops so I can go to a hospital but my friend talked me out of it.....
I learned a lot from that experience and now I have the best trips so I think it was worth it
-------------------- Friend- So how high are you guys right now on a scale of 1 to 10? Me- 70
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Leon76


Registered: 05/18/13
Posts: 78
Last seen: 8 months, 21 days
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Re: How scary can a trip be? [Re: HuskyKing]
#18390751 - 06/09/13 12:47 AM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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BOO
-------------------- “I have absolutely no pleasure in the stimulants in which I sometimes so madly indulge. It has not been in the pursuit of pleasure that I have periled life and reputation and reason. It has been the desperate attempt to escape from torturing memories, from a sense of insupportable loneliness and a dread of some strange impending doom.” ― Edgar Allan Poe
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cubehead87
I love DMT


Registered: 11/12/09
Posts: 286
Loc: Somewhere in hyperspace
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
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Quote:
MagicalOrangutan said: Oh, just the fear that you're physically dying, or that you're permanently altered and will always feel the extreme mind warp that you're currently on. Quite terrifying
i felt this way on 4 hits of paper, for the first time.
i honestly had no idea what it was for sure. but i had never felt that way before, and i didnt know if id feel that way for daysor when it would stop. i was alone too, and that made it so much worse.
-------------------- "Outside is pure energy and colorless substance. All of the rest happens through the mechanism of our senses. Our eyes see just a small fraction of the light in the world. It is a trick to make a colored world, which does not exist outside of human beings." - Albert Hoffman
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Dark_Star
train driver pervading a desktop


Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 31,859
Loc: Uranus
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Re: How scary can a trip be? [Re: s240779]
#18391159 - 06/09/13 03:25 AM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yet no humans have ever died from it, and some have taken truly massive doses.....ones higher than the one given to the elephant.
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wolf8312
Pennywise


Registered: 10/01/12
Posts: 2,356
Last seen: 10 days, 9 hours
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Quote:
itsaconspiracy said: no you only go insane if your insane in the first place= you had a mental problem to begin with
I was not insane before I went insane -on acid pot and panic- and I wasn't insane after I came down either, but I reckon almost anyone can go mad. Whilst it is true that people who are predisposed to mental illness are much more likely to succumb to a long term illness, we can all get ourselves a short term sample if we are not careful and responsible.
To the Op's question-
A bad, evil trip, of the psychotic and delusional variety can be as terrorizing as an evening tied to the chair of a sadistic serial killer as he dances around threatening you with sharp objects. This is not hyperbole!
It's hard to make anyone who hasn't experienced them, realize just how real delusions will feel. Believe someone is coming to kill you and you will experience someone coming to kill you! Surrendering to this in the same way you might Ayahuasca is just not the same!
Remember too that this isn't a trip, but a psychotic reaction triggered by panic on-top of a trip/cannabis! All this shouldn't though worry a responsible person who takes care with the dosage. The cliche about knowing your dose and knowing yourself is really no joke, start small and know where your limit is!
Also be aware that for many people -myself included- it is cannabis and not the psychedelic which is responsible for the psychotic breaks. If weed makes you a bit anxious and paranoid -even at the best of times- avoid mixing it into your trips.
Weed works obviously I think on association. Many smoked it as kids and did so under the constant fear of discovery by parents and police! That same paranoia and anxiety can often come up as if from nowhere even when smoking it in safe and relaxed conditions as adults. Combined with a psychedelic it can be utterly disastrous.
It's really very difficult to escape a tail spin but if you ever do want to escape, be sure to fly the plane downwards and into the terror!
The only way out is in!
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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TheGreenArrow
Goodbye, Mr. Chops.


Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 15,270
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
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Re: How scary can a trip be? [Re: wolf8312]
#18391634 - 06/09/13 09:31 AM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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Honestly, I thought knowing that ego death may happen really helped me out when it happened to me. My advise would be to read the psychedelic experience by leary and alpert. Best description of the whole thing I've read so far. Its pretty wild really. I started tripping to just have fun and party. Somewhere along the way it turned into this incredible spiritual retreat.
-------------------- A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein Saint RedBow of the Shroomey Loomey-Patron Saint of Sandbaggin Sumbitchs
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tbone8352
Gardener



Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 224
Last seen: 10 months, 24 days
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Re: How scary can a trip be? [Re: wolf8312]
#18391647 - 06/09/13 09:41 AM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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Virtually anything can happen in your own head in a bad trip. They can be extremely terrifying basically a waking nightmare. They are always caused by external stimuli and not the drug itself; IE: If you are depressed, not in a comfortable area, someone is being mean to you during trip, ect. Bad trips can also happen if you have subconscious bad feelings that your ego is suppressing. They can be a learning experience too so if something bad happens try to stay cool and go with it.
An example of a bad trip I had was on an eighth of mushrooms. I was subconsciously getting scared of my increasing drug use (weed everyday, mushrooms a few times a month, drinking at parties on the weekends). During the majority of the trip I felt as if an external entity was trying to possess me and I fought it until I gave up and was extremely sad. Well the entity did not take over my body and the more I realized I was going to be OK and was coming down, the more I realized why I had a bad trip and became happy with myself.
-------------------- "You develop an instant global consciousness, a people orientation, an intense dissatisfaction with the state of the world, and a compulsion to do something about it. From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, 'Look at that, you son of a bitch.'" — Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 astronaut
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OZA
When the going gets weird.....



Registered: 03/29/12
Posts: 3,808
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
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Re: How scary can a trip be? [Re: s240779]
#18391689 - 06/09/13 09:56 AM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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The worst imaginable feeling that doesn't consist of physical pain. You're trapped and you realize you're trapped, but you can't get out. And to make it worse, seconds feel like minutes and minutes feel like hours. It's a complete nonsensical panic. And this was off only 2 grams of shrooms. Can't imagine what a 10 gram bad trip is like
-------------------- The happiness consists in realizing that it is all a great strange dream.
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