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TheApprentice
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Registered: 09/25/11
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drying, oxidation and potency
#18374628 - 06/05/13 08:08 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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So I dehydrated my mushrooms, it took about a day with fans and an oven intermediately. The oven was set to 170f.
my stems turned black after the first day, so I used the oven.
my buddy ate and 8th cracker dry and felt nothing
why? When I ate them wet they rocked.
did I bruise them too much when I picked them?
did they lose potency from drying so long?
or is heat the culprit?
help!!
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newera
Stranger


Registered: 03/05/13
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as far as i know it's oxidization and notso much heat that does it but i could be wrong, maybe your friend just needs to eat more
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
TheApprentice said: my stems turned black after the first day
Probably rotting, you should dry them immediatly. If you can't that day, put them in the fridge, they can last a couple days in the fridge.
Quote:
TheApprentice said: did I bruise them too much when I picked them?
Shouldn't matter that much
Quote:
TheApprentice said: did they lose potency from drying so long?
Maybe, exposure to oxygen is what breaks down the actives
Quote:
TheApprentice said: or is heat the culprit?
Not unless you cranked your oven past 300F
Also MS could be the culprit, were you using a monoculture? No matter what, if your planning on taking this hobby seriously, spend the $40-$60 and get a dehydrator. Its well worth it
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Jman420
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Registered: 12/23/12
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Re: drying, oxidation and potency [Re: Pastywhyte]
#18375009 - 06/05/13 09:17 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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I don't know if you have access to an air filter or a couple of fans..But I use an air filter in a box and it dries out my mushrooms within 48h max. I haven't noticed any loss in potency, and it works out just great for all sizes of mushrooms. I've seen people do the same with fans...Just put a couple of small fans in a box, or one big one in a box, and set your mushrooms on top of it. It'll dry it out with 48h usually.
-------------------- --My Everything You Need To Know Tek--
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Edited by Jman420 (06/05/13 09:18 PM)
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funkerdslr
Δ9



Registered: 04/08/13
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Re: drying, oxidation and potency [Re: Jman420]
#18375126 - 06/05/13 09:41 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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I own a dehydrator, but honestly i find hanging them from lines in a small room with a fan blowing on them is my preferred method.
12-24 hours later and they're crispy dry. I've dried my fruits some interesting ways ( 1000watt HPS hood, cable box, paper towel pouches, AC unit) and have never had any negligible potency loss from the method used.
-------------------- RIP Alice
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
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Re: drying, oxidation and potency [Re: funkerdslr]
#18375206 - 06/05/13 10:02 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
funkerdslr said: I own a dehydrator, but honestly i find hanging them from lines in a small room with a fan blowing on them is my preferred method.
12-24 hours later and they're crispy dry.
Wow you must live in the Sahara. My neck of the woods is pretty damn dry and before I got a dehydrator, I tried several methods including fan drying. 48 hours later and they still were pretty soft. I went and bought a dehydrator and was one of my best purchases. Cost $48 at walmart, dries the mushies in 8-14 hours, depending on fruit size of course. Not to mention all I do is dump em in and hit the button (hanging them is a pain in the ass IMO).
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The Alaskan Dude
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Registered: 01/27/12
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Re: drying, oxidation and potency [Re: Pastywhyte]
#18375255 - 06/05/13 10:16 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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My nesco will dry mushrooms in as little as 3 hours with full trays. I split all the stems down the middle and even many caps before dehydrating.
-------------------- The five colors blind the eye,
The five tones deafen the ear,
The five flavors dull the taste.
Racing and hunting madden the mind,
Precious things lead one astray.
Therefore the sage is guided by what he feels and not what he sees.
He lets go of this and chooses that.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
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I never split my mushies, they just look too good, but yeah if I did that I could probably really cut my drying time down.
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funkerdslr
Δ9



Registered: 04/08/13
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Re: drying, oxidation and potency [Re: Pastywhyte]
#18375335 - 06/05/13 10:34 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
funkerdslr said: I own a dehydrator, but honestly i find hanging them from lines in a small room with a fan blowing on them is my preferred method.
12-24 hours later and they're crispy dry.
Wow you must live in the Sahara. My neck of the woods is pretty damn dry and before I got a dehydrator, I tried several methods including fan drying. 48 hours later and they still were pretty soft. I went and bought a dehydrator and was one of my best purchases. Cost $48 at walmart, dries the mushies in 8-14 hours, depending on fruit size of course. Not to mention all I do is dump em in and hit the button (hanging them is a pain in the ass IMO).
I live in southern cali, so you were pretty close 
I have hanging lines in my grow with wooden dowels hanging from it, i just slip the dowel through the mushroom and it hangs there, easy as pie for me, but like you said....gotta live in the right conditions
-------------------- RIP Alice
<3 Chinacat72 <3
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The Alaskan Dude
Vagabond


Registered: 01/27/12
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Loc: Ohio
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Re: drying, oxidation and potency [Re: funkerdslr]
#18375462 - 06/05/13 11:03 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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To Pasty:
True, they do look delicious whole ( or fresh ) but i find the outside turnes into a moisture barrier for the soft tissue which can actually stay wet for a long ass time.
-------------------- The five colors blind the eye,
The five tones deafen the ear,
The five flavors dull the taste.
Racing and hunting madden the mind,
Precious things lead one astray.
Therefore the sage is guided by what he feels and not what he sees.
He lets go of this and chooses that.
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TheApprentice
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Registered: 09/25/11
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Re: drying, oxidation and potency [Re: Jman420]
#18375583 - 06/05/13 11:30 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Probably rotting, you should dry them immediatly. If you can't that day, put them in the fridge, they can last a couple days in the fridge.
...
Maybe, exposure to oxygen is what breaks down the actives
...
Not unless you cranked your oven past 300F
Also MS could be the culprit, were you using a monoculture? No matter what, if your planning on taking this hobby seriously, spend the $40-$60 and get a dehydrator. Its well worth it 
They took about 48 hours to get cracker dry
The temp in the over never reached about 130 cuz i had a fan blowing into it and meat therm on the tray.
Here is what they look like dry
  
Quote:
Jman420 said: I don't know if you have access to an air filter or a couple of fans..But I use an air filter in a box and it dries out my mushrooms within 48h max.

but do your stems look white when they are dry? mine look black.
and also, i thought they were cracker dry yesterday and put them in a bag.
looked at them today, and they were rubber. so i put them back in the oven and on the fan. took about another 2 hours and they are still dry.
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gimp
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i had small fruits that color after drying and they were still potent
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TheApprentice
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Re: drying, oxidation and potency [Re: gimp]
#18375621 - 06/05/13 11:40 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
gimp said: i had small fruits that color after drying and they were still potent
Oh, and when I got home, my roomate said the guy said he started feeling them later.
So... ya. IDK. 
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Thadeous
On the path

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 1,101
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^how much later was that? had he eaten just prior to the mushies? Does he have experience with such things?
The temps you dried at will not effect potency, save the oxidation, which is negligible as we all deal with it unless you have some lab drying equipment.
I use a dehydrator; my stems generally stay white, save where I plucked them from the substrate (I'm a puller, not a cutter .) Get one and never look back. They are tits.
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: drying, oxidation and potency [Re: Thadeous]
#18375773 - 06/06/13 12:15 AM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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If you don't want issues like that Apprentice, grab a dehydrator
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Lol I love my place. I live in plant hardiness zone 2. I can just leave mushies up to 40g fresh on the counter and they're cracker dry in up to 48 hours. I fan dry big ones until they're just squishy and put em on the counter for a day xD
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: drying, oxidation and potency [Re: Mad Season]
#18375913 - 06/06/13 12:44 AM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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My asthmatic airways would hate me if I lived in such a dry area. I'd be running a humidifier constantly
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TheApprentice
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An update.
the dude was a scammer. It sucks cuz he is a friend,
but ya, they work and rock. Oxidation isn't a problem.
in fact, there is no problem. He is the problem.
douche bag.
--------------------
RR Videos -Best $9 Ever Spent *
No Pour AGAR Tek * Easy COIR Trays! *
Pink Oysters on Newspaper TEK
"Yeah? Well, DRACULA called... and he said he's coming over tonight, and I said OK!"
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tko
Stranger

Registered: 05/08/13
Posts: 496
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i recently realized that if i dehydrate right away, stem stay pretty white, but i put some "cuttings" pieces of bases with verm on my tv to dry and they turned black...and i mean BLACK. idk how the dehydrator wouldnt make them do this?
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tko
Stranger

Registered: 05/08/13
Posts: 496
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Re: drying, oxidation and potency [Re: tko]
#18387338 - 06/08/13 11:08 AM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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so he was feelin them and tried to say they were bunk?? yeah i HAD a few "frienddss" like that back in the day. their quite easy to get rid of lol
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tbagtag
Boomer Barron

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 1,432
Loc: Amsterdam
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Re: drying, oxidation and potency [Re: tko]
#18387347 - 06/08/13 11:10 AM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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i actually air dry mine over 3 days or so. Never really noticed any loss in potency. I'm sure air does oxidize it some over time - but lets be real how many of us vacuum seal your mushrooms or do most of you not keep them around that long.
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veda_sticks
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Re: drying, oxidation and potency [Re: tbagtag]
#18387508 - 06/08/13 12:01 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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I made tea from fresh shrooms that were stored in the fridge for 5 days since picking, which is longer than i usually store fresh mushrooms. i think my fridge being broke (thermostat broke so it tends to freeze things in winter) helped them keep so long.
never noticed any potency loss with them .
Im sure that there will be some, but then again its so hard to say yes or no when your working with multispore since potency is going to vary anyway.
Anyway thats not even factoring in how your brain reaacts to them at the time
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Sillyputty67

Registered: 10/06/12
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Re: drying, oxidation and potency [Re: veda_sticks]
#18387673 - 06/08/13 12:47 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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In some past conversations with TC's, ive learned some stuff about this process. This is essential to know info for any cultivar of actives.
Wet fresh shrooms will always be the most potent. They contain 3 active compounds, of which the potency of the 3 actives being controlled by genetics.
Psilocin, Psilocybin, and Baeocystin. Psilocin is responsible for the trip we want. Baeocystin is the body buzz/dirty feeling. Psilocybin is actually a non active component.
Psilocin oxidizes into a non active blue substance called psilocybeen.
Your potent fresh shrooms are saturated in psilocin. When you dehydrate them it all oxidizes.
You are only left with psilocybin, and baeocystin in your cracker dry shrooms.
Psilocybin by enzymatic process of the liver removes a phosphorous atom from the psilocybin molecule, and metabolizes into psilocin.

This is where the ideology of "a fresh shroom is 3 to five times more potent than a dry one." comes from.
-------------------- 1) Everything I ever posted or say is a lie.
Edited by Sillyputty67 (06/08/13 12:49 PM)
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TheApprentice
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Re: drying, oxidation and potency [Re: Sillyputty67]
#18387754 - 06/08/13 01:10 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
malicom said: In some past conversations with TC's, ive learned some stuff about this process. This is essential to know info for any cultivar of actives.
Wet fresh shrooms will always be the most potent. They contain 3 active compounds, of which the potency of the 3 actives being controlled by genetics.
Psilocin, Psilocybin, and Baeocystin. Psilocin is responsible for the trip we want. Baeocystin is the body buzz/dirty feeling. Psilocybin is actually a non active component.
Psilocin oxidizes into a non active blue substance called psilocybeen.
Your potent fresh shrooms are saturated in psilocin. When you dehydrate them it all oxidizes.
You are only left with psilocybin, and baeocystin in your cracker dry shrooms.
Psilocybin by enzymatic process of the liver removes a phosphorous atom from the psilocybin molecule, and metabolizes into psilocin.

This is where the ideology of "a fresh shroom is 3 to five times more potent than a dry one." comes from.
great info. Thanks!
--------------------
RR Videos -Best $9 Ever Spent *
No Pour AGAR Tek * Easy COIR Trays! *
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tko
Stranger

Registered: 05/08/13
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psilocybin is NON active????
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Sillyputty67

Registered: 10/06/12
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Re: drying, oxidation and potency [Re: tko]
#18388380 - 06/08/13 03:53 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
tko said: psilocybin is NON active????
Yes, it dosnt become active until your body metabolizes it into psilocin.
-------------------- 1) Everything I ever posted or say is a lie.
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Franquixote
knight-errant

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Re: drying, oxidation and potency [Re: Sillyputty67]
#18429863 - 06/16/13 09:29 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have been hunting wild edibles for years- morels, chanterelles, black trumpets, puffballs, chicken mushroom and the absolute best way for me is to put them in my gear closet with a regular full size dehumidifier. Since I do a lot of outdoors stuff- fishing, hunting, camping, hiking- having a walk-in closet where it's a constant 40% humidity means that I can hike or hunt in the snow or rain, strip off my gear after dark when I get home, and by 5am when I'm ready to do it again everything is bone dry and warm. Great for tents too, no musty smell in mine. Even slices of puffball are cracker dry within 48 hours and I have morels 2 years old that still taste great. Dehumidifiers are less than $100 at home depot. I don't know anything about hallucinogenic mushroom potency loss but if the goal is to get them as dry as possible as fast as possible and this is what preserves potency I don't think you could go wrong with doing it this way.
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