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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
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Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
Re: Surviving the Bush Dictatorship - Martial Law [Re: ]
    #1837870 - 08/21/03 04:39 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

This argument is BS me thinks. This is an interview with one of the pilots of the jets that were scrambled.

http://www.poconorecord.com/report/911-2002/000232.htm


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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,282
Re: Surviving the Bush Dictatorship - Martial Law [Re: Rono]
    #1837874 - 08/21/03 04:40 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Ah, found it. http://www.cnn.com/US/9910/25/wayward.jet.07/

Sorry, too much stuff in this thread.

I don't know why they would bother to have unarmed jets tailing Stewarts plane, but looks like they had an extremely long response time to do so.

Intercepting the jets on 9/11 was not something we were logistically prepared to do. We're still not, really. But JETS WERE SCRAMBLED, just not from Andrew AFB.

If you hijacked a plane right this minute, and kept the pilot off the radio, you'd have plenty of time to do whatever you wanted with it, imho.

Pre-911, no way in hell would they have ever shot down an airplane that had been hijacked. Some people still contend that the plane over PA was shot down by airforce jets, but I personally do not think so.

From what I can find out, Air National Guard f-15 fighters were scrambled at 8:44 am from Otis ANGB.

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.hijack.warning/
http://www.bayarea.com/mld/cctimes/news/world/5936492.htm
http://blogs.salon.com/0001337/stories/2002/09/03/911Timeline.html


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Surviving the Bush Dictatorship - Martial Law [Re: ]
    #1837877 - 08/21/03 04:40 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Frankly, I don't give a shit what Bush's facial expression were...

At the point of 9/11 they supposedly had no idea that they were terrorist attacks, so why would there be such extrme panic?

The thought that every person associated with defending the continental U.S. during 9/11 panicked and their brains shut down is laughable...surely you can see that.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,282
Re: Surviving the Bush Dictatorship - Martial Law [Re: Rono]
    #1837885 - 08/21/03 04:43 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

We were caught flat-footed.

IMHO, we are still not prepared for another such attack, though you won't find another group of passengers as compliant as those on planes 1-3.


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Surviving the Bush Dictatorship - Martial Law [Re: wingnutx]
    #1837889 - 08/21/03 04:44 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Taken from your sources...

"The Air Force jets that were scrambled during the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks received White House clearance to shoot down the hijacked airliners -- but only after the last of them crashed into a field in rural Pennsylvania, an Air Force general testified at a hearing Friday."


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Surviving the Bush Dictatorship - Martial Law [Re: wingnutx]
    #1837892 - 08/21/03 04:46 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Hijacking an American airliner would be much more difficult to pull off now I think. The doors are reinforced on the cockpits now, and the passengers know what the outcome will be if the don't act. I would sacrifice myself to save others on the ground.


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Surviving the Bush Dictatorship - Martial Law [Re: shakta]
    #1837904 - 08/21/03 04:49 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I would tend to agree...but as someone stated earlier in this thread, at the time the passengers probably assumed that it was a 'standard' hijacking attempt...one would assume that they would land the plane, negotiations would take place etc...


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,282
Re: Surviving the Bush Dictatorship - Martial Law [Re: Rono]
    #1837909 - 08/21/03 04:51 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Sounds like inefficient SOP. Ask anyone who pulls triggers about 'permission to fire'.



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Offlineshakta
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Registered: 06/03/03
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Re: Surviving the Bush Dictatorship - Martial Law [Re: Rono]
    #1837911 - 08/21/03 04:51 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Rono said:
Taken from your sources...

"The Air Force jets that were scrambled during the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks received White House clearance to shoot down the hijacked airliners -- but only after the last of them crashed into a field in rural Pennsylvania, an Air Force general testified at a hearing Friday."





What exactly is your point? They were unsure of the number of jets that were remaining at that point, if any. Everything happened very quickly.


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Surviving the Bush Dictatorship - Martial Law [Re: shakta]
    #1837922 - 08/21/03 04:55 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Well it appears the piolets reacted quite fast and efficently after the delayed call to scramble...but unfortunately ?I was the same as everyone else. I was shocked and disbelieving, and frustrated that we were so late.?


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Surviving the Bush Dictatorship - Martial Law [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1837930 - 08/21/03 04:56 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Sounds like the FAA screwed up on that one. Hardly the conspiracy that you guys were suggesting though.


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Surviving the Bush Dictatorship - Martial Law [Re: shakta]
    #1837933 - 08/21/03 04:57 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Airliners have very specific flight paths...if they deviate from said fight paths without authorization, all sorts of alarms go off. They could tell at any given time which planes were off course and how many of them there were. Welcome to wonderful world of technology and computers...


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Surviving the Bush Dictatorship - Martial Law [Re: shakta]
    #1837943 - 08/21/03 05:01 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

shakta said:
Sounds like the FAA screwed up on that one. Hardly the conspiracy that you guys were suggesting though. 




I suggested numerous factors..
One being the conspiracy
Second being the incompetance of the defense to scramble aircraft to numerous planes that deviated off course after suddenly loosing radio contact.

oh!...just thought of another..
The terrorists were really, really good. :tongue:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Offlinefoghorn
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Registered: 12/13/01
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Re: Surviving the Bush Dictatorship - Martial Law [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1838027 - 08/21/03 05:32 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

the sad thing about this is
that
while we sit here and argue about what may or may
not have happend

bush continues to do whatever the fuck he wants



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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
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Loc: Austin, TX
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Re: Surviving the Bush Dictatorship - Martial Law [Re: ]
    #1838039 - 08/21/03 05:37 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I don't know if it was a conspiracy or incopetence, but I most certainly agree with Rono and Mr Mushroooms:
Quote:

Rono said:
Then explain why a country like Canada, that is considerably larger than the U.S. doesn't suffer from terrorist attacks...we have virtually no defence, and much more area to cover. I'm guessing it's because we aren't going around pissing off other countries to start with...but that's just my opinion.

Mr_Mushrooms said:
Bingo!  Johnny show the winner what he's won! :smile:


 


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Registered: 10/18/00
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Re: Surviving the Bush Dictatorship - Martial Law [Re: Rono]
    #1838162 - 08/21/03 06:18 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Rono writes:

It's already been proven that it IS procedure to do so when radio contact is lost.
It's been proven that Jets can be scrambled in minutes for this same reason.
It's been proven that it has been done in the past...

So I ask the simple question...WHY WEREN'T ANY JETS SCRAMBLED ON 9/11?


The thing is, jets were NOT scrambled in every case that met the prescribed profile. You keep harping on and on about Payne Stewart's case. Fine -- in that case the procedures were followed. But in a stretch of some years before 9/11, there were over 400 incidents that met all the same criteria, and jets were scrambled for just over 110 of those incidents.

Now I know you are going to ask me for a link, and I have been diligently searching my bookmarks and notepad for it, but I can't find it. Maybe someone else can Google it for me. I swear on a stack of bibles that I am not making this up.

The thing, is you are acting as if this lack of scrambling was UNIQUE -- it was not. As a matter of fact, it was the norm -- interceptors were scrambled for roughly one out of four incidents. I am sure that figure is a lot higher today, however.

pinky


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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,282
Re: Surviving the Bush Dictatorship - Martial Law [Re: Phred]
    #1838168 - 08/21/03 06:21 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Uh, jets were scrambled. It's a myth that they were not.


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Surviving the Bush Dictatorship - Martial Law [Re: Phred]
    #1838189 - 08/21/03 06:31 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

You keep harping on and on about Payne Stewart's case.




The only reason I was "harping" as you put it...was because some of our users here needed to be reminded of it apparently...


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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OfflinePhred
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Registered: 10/18/00
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Re: Surviving the Bush Dictatorship - Martial Law [Re: Rono]
    #1838196 - 08/21/03 06:35 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Rono writes:

The only reason I was "harping" as you put it...was because some of our users here needed to be reminded of it apparently...

The Payne Stewart case in and of itself is quite literally meaningless. It is a single case. What counts is the percentage of cases where all procedures are followed correctly. Pre 9/11, that percentage was roughly 25%.

I'm still searching for that link. It was from NORAD or the FAA or some government website.

pinky




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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,244
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Re: Surviving the Bush Dictatorship - Martial Law [Re: Rono]
    #1838259 - 08/21/03 06:49 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I didn't dodge it. I asked a follow up question which you either missed (likely) or ignored. (not as likely unless you were more interested in your comfort monkey)


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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