|
Mycjunky
Stranger


Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 1,837
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
|
Benghazi Scandal
#18324882 - 05/26/13 07:39 PM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
So there's been a lot in the news lately about the right attacking the Obama administration for mishandling Benghazi. I agree that they clearly tried to cover up the motivations for the attack considering Hillary Clinton and others came out immediately saying the attack was over a video of Mohammed. I think we all know that claim was bullshit from the beginning.
I could be wrong but in my opinion it seems the attack was most likely blow back for us helping overthrow and kill Gaddafi. Now there's arguments on both sides saying Gaddafi was this or that, I don't want to get in to it.
It seems the real thing that needs to be examined is our foreign policy that both dems and reps support in many countries including what happened in Libya. It seems like everyone is seriously avoiding the root of the problem and just trying to blame each other. The way see it regardless of if the situation was mishandled afterwards the cause of the problem was a foreign policy both sides support without question. Willing to here other opinions though.
|
LBM
Grey Beard


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 88
Loc: Baltimore/Washington Nebu...
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
|
Re: Benghazi Scandal [Re: Mycjunky]
#18325265 - 05/26/13 09:19 PM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
I agree that it has to do with Gaddafi.Next time we should arm both sides and let them kill each other off.
-------------------- I'm doing nothing and have had tremendous success in those endeavors The best government is the least of it! There are things known and there are things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception. Aldous Huxley
|
TalesfromtheTrypt
The Tryptkeeper


Registered: 05/11/13
Posts: 284
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
|
Re: Benghazi Scandal [Re: LBM]
#18325708 - 05/26/13 11:09 PM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
I'm usually pretty skeptical but I believe them when they say they thought it was over the video, there were many demonstrations and protests at other embassies that same day that were definitely over that video. The thing is that the right is trying to make it look like a bunch of terrorists stormed the embassy out of nowhere and started murdering people and the president knew about it all along etc. But the ambassador wasn't decapitated, his body wasn't mutilated, he wasn't shot or stabbed at all from what I understand. He died of smoke inhalation at a nearby medical facility after some sympathetic Libyans carried him there from the compound. So considering they already had multiple protests that day at other embassies, the facts that were readily available would definitely make it appear as if a bunch of protesters set fire to the embassy in Benghazi and there were casualties due to the fire. The truth is, if it was President McCain instead of President Obama there would be no hearings and no controversy, unless the Democrats decided to pursue that course. Today or yesterday Senator Graham (R) said he has never feared as much for the safety of the country as he does today. Not 9/11, not during the Cold War, but right now for some bizarre reason. If Romney had won the election, though, then this would be a new era in America's security from the threats of extremism etc. I'm pretty sure it wasn't always this partisan but I can't even remember anymore. The two-party system blows.
Edit: But yeah it was definitely over Gaddafi, our politicians have this ridiculous world police mentality, they go and do whatever the fuck they want whenever the fuck they want, then sit and wonder why the world hates the US.
--------------------
Edited by TalesfromtheTrypt (05/26/13 11:26 PM)
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
|
|
Why would you believe them when they say it was about about a video when there is exactly zero evidence and an ample trail of obfuscation form the original reports which made no mention whatsoever of a spontaneous protest?
The attack didn't come out of nowhere. It was well planned and it was in Libya. Duh. There is no government in Libya. This should have been anticipated. Who brings mortars to a protest? This was a well planned attack to commemorate 9/11. It did not come out of "nowhere". If it was "blowback" (one of the alltime idiot memes in history) for anything it was for Obama crowing that al Qaeda was defeated by him.
There are levels of incompetence involved in the security procedures. That is one thing. But what will be the enduring thing is the abject lying. They made up the video thing out of whole cloth in order not to embarrass Obama in an election cycle, plain and simple.
What do you mean by "over Gaddhafi"? Ghaddafi had been pacified and it was the fucking French that did this. American had almost nothing to do with deposing him.
--------------------
|
TalesfromtheTrypt
The Tryptkeeper


Registered: 05/11/13
Posts: 284
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
|
|
You need to re-read my post man, I know there were no protests in Benghazi that day, everybody knows that by now, what I said was there were protests at other embassies that same day, 9-11-2012, and that really can't be argued, there's articles about it all over the internet, 3000 protesters in Cairo, about a dozen of them scaled the embassy wall and replaced the US flag with a black flag. Here's just a random article that popped up in google: http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/15/world/meast/egypt-us-embassy-protests/index.html
So my point is that considering that the State dept in DC was getting flooded with info about protests at different embassies, it's plausible that when they first got info that the ambassador died from smoke inhalation they determined that it was most likely another protest that got violent that day.
Regarding Gadaffi, I don't feel like doing another Google search but I remember when we first got involved that although it was the French (and I believe British) that convinced NATO to get involved, it was exclusively American equipment and missiles being used in the first days of the operation simply because we already had some warships deployed in the Mediterranean. Besides, you and I both know Muslim extremists will blame the US for anything the West does regardless of the facts.
--------------------
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
|
|
Quote:
TalesfromtheTrypt said: You need to re-read my post man, I know there were no protests in Benghazi that day, everybody knows that by now, what I said was there were protests at other embassies that same day, 9-11-2012, and that really can't be argued, there's articles about it all over the internet, 3000 protesters in Cairo, about a dozen of them scaled the embassy wall and replaced the US flag with a black flag. Here's just a random article that popped up in google: http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/15/world/meast/egypt-us-embassy-protests/index.html
You say other places and note only Cairo. I was well aware of the Cairo nonsense. It had not one thing to do with Libya.Quote:
So my point is that considering that the State dept in DC was getting flooded with info about protests at different embassies, it's plausible that when they first got info that the ambassador died from smoke inhalation they determined that it was most likely another protest that got violent that day.
It got flooded with info about exactly one instance and they had several days to make up their lies. The lying did not start on the day of the incident. It was not until several days later when the cunt went on all the networks to spread a completely false story about a video.Quote:
Regarding Gadaffi, I don't feel like doing another Google search but I remember when we first got involved that although it was the French (and I believe British) that convinced NATO to get involved, it was exclusively American equipment and missiles being used in the first days of the operation simply because we already had some warships deployed in the Mediterranean. Besides, you and I both know Muslim extremists will blame the US for anything the West does regardless of the facts.
I don't think you are correct but as a member of NATO we are obliged to go along with their shit. Also some Muslim whackos recently chopped a Brit soldier to bits.
The attack in Libya had nothing to do with the movie and State knew it. Meanwhile the poor schmuck who made the movie is in jail, as Hillary promised, on a relatively minor parole violation that would not normally result in that.
--------------------
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
|
perfect place for this
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/benghazi-rising/
interesting documentary
anyone got anymore info?
|
TalesfromtheTrypt
The Tryptkeeper


Registered: 05/11/13
Posts: 284
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
|
|
Quote:
zappaisgod said: You say other places and note only Cairo. I was well aware of the Cairo nonsense. It had not one thing to do with Libya.
Quote:
It got flooded with info about exactly one instance and they had several days to make up their lies. The lying did not start on the day of the incident. It was not until several days later when the cunt went on all the networks to spread a completely false story about a video.
On Teusday afternoon the protests over the video started in Cairo and went on for days, Teusday night Benghazi happened, Teusday night/Wednesday morning protestors started throwing rocks and burning flags at the embassy in Tunisia, Wednesday morning protests started outside the embassies in Sudan and Morrocco. The next day protestors broke into the US embassy compound in Yemen, burning cars and leaving 4 dead. By Friday 2 US Marines in Afghanistan were killed (not that anybody seems to have cared though, after all they were just Marines, not politicians) plus 8 USMC Harriers destroyed, and protests and violence spread to Lebanon, Israel, Yemen, Mauritania, Indonesia, Jordan, Pakistan, Kuwait, Bangladesh, Nigeria, India, Qatar, Malaysia, plus public US flag burnings outside the US embassy in London, all of which had left at least 7 dead, and all of which were over the video.
"Friday's attack at Camp Bastion in Helmand province left two US soldiers dead and some others wounded, US officials said. The Taliban said it was in response to the anti-Islamic video that has sparked a wave of ongoing protests... A defence official in Washington said the two dead were US marines, speaking on condition of anonymity." http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444023704577652173540734862.html http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2012/09/2012914221750984356.html
"Anti-American rage that began this week over a video insult to Islam spread to nearly 20 countries across the Middle East and beyond on Friday, with violent and sometimes deadly protests that convulsed the birthplaces of the Arab Spring revolutions, breached two more United States Embassies and targeted diplomatic properties of Germany and Britain." http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/15/world/middleeast/anti-american-protests-over-film-enter-4th-day.html?_r=2&hp&pagewanted=all&
On Saturday, September 15, protests began outside US embassies in France and Australia, plus flag burnings in the Phillipines. More countries were added to the list over the course of a few weeks. Violence and casualties over the video were notably high in Pakistan. This is from a single day of violence on September 21: "19 dead after thousands riot in Pakistan over anti-Muslim film" http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/09/21/1-killed-after-police-fire-on-anti-us-protests-in-pakistan/
A suicide bomber in Afghanistan killed 18 people including 9 foreigners (8 South Africans, 1 Brit), the group that claimed responsibility said it was over the video. The Taliban has also put out a bounty of 8 kg of gold for the makers of the film. The list goes on and on.
The facts pretty much speak for themselves. Within 12 hours of Benghazi there were 4 protests under way outside US embassies, and within 60 hours there were protests in 19 countries, plus 2 Marines killed, all over the video. So I stand by my statement that the State department was indeed flooded with information regarding protests and violence over the video, and that it's reasonable for the State department to claim to have believed from the above facts that the ambassador in Benghazi was killed due to smoke inhalation at a violent protest.
Frankly, I really don't care either way, at all. Politicians lie to us more often than they tell the truth so I'm not exactly outraged one way or another. Besides, as far as "scandals" go, this one isn't very scandalous, is it? I mean, it's not exactly Iran-Contra material. The thing is, all of this information was actually extremely easy to find, so considering how much you obviously care about this, I should be surprised that you skipped over all the above facts. Of course, I'm not actually surprised because you have an agenda to strengthen, which is fine. I don't take sides, I'm not against any one group or thing or person, I'm against all groups, things, and people. The only thing I'm for is the truth, because the greatest disservice one can commit against oneself is to deny truths because they're deemed inconvenient to what one already believes. Personally, I couldn't care less what you believe so I'm not really trying to convince you of anything, I just put all that information in this post because I don't make unsubstantiated claims. Now don't get me wrong, you want to blame someone for all the fucked up things in the world, I uderstand that because I do too, but over time I realized that a) everyone is to blame, b) the people who are most to blame don't have names or faces, they don't get elected and they're not on TV or in the news, and c) the world is so fucked up that I pretty much have to be in a perpetual state of latent outrage for the rest of my life. In fact, there are so many atrocities happening today that are 1000 times worse than this "scandal" that I feel like I've wasted a great deal of time over something comparitively insignificant. Anyways, OP asked for an opinion, I gave mine, it seems you intended to turn this into some sort of debate, but I'm not in the habit of debating because it implies that I care what someone else thinks. See ya, and no hard feelings.
Sources http://www.irishtimes.com/news/protest-at-us-embassy-in-tunisia-1.736095 http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iLfPD2N3xoUHeY0N9o8M5N4xomlQ?docId=CNG.ea6b2b9091b3be35b473f9b1d1e7ec56.c1 http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hNum2gh0Xrg44prdwnoJRGZkZfuQ?docId=CNG.0d4bb2319ab51dd6f7a34cecaab1cf20.171 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19602177 http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/14/13856452-at-least-seven-reported-killed-in-regional-protests-over-anti-islamic-video
--------------------
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
|
|
Quote:
TalesfromtheTrypt said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: You say other places and note only Cairo. I was well aware of the Cairo nonsense. It had not one thing to do with Libya.
Quote:
It got flooded with info about exactly one instance and they had several days to make up their lies. The lying did not start on the day of the incident. It was not until several days later when the cunt went on all the networks to spread a completely false story about a video.
On Teusday afternoon the protests over the video started in Cairo and went on for days, SO WHAT?Teusday night Benghazi happened, SO WHAT?Teusday night/Wednesday morning protestors started throwing rocks and burning flags at the embassy in Tunisia, SO WHAT? Wednesday morning protests started outside the embassies in Sudan and Morrocco. SO WHAT? The next day protestors broke into the US embassy compound in Yemen, burning cars and leaving 4 dead.I LOOKED FOR THAT AND FOUND NO REPORTS OF ANY AMERICAN DEATHS By Friday 2 US Marines in Afghanistan were killed (not that anybody seems to have cared though, after all they were just Marines, not politicians) plus 8 USMC Harriers destroyed, and protests and violence spread to Lebanon, Israel, Yemen, Mauritania, Indonesia, Jordan, Pakistan, Kuwait, Bangladesh, Nigeria, India, Qatar, Malaysia, plus public US flag burnings outside the US embassy in London, all of which had left at least 7 dead, and all of which were over the video.
We are, in case you were not aware, at war in Afghanistan. Note one shred of that supports the notion that the 9/11 attack in Benghazi had anything to do with a video. The President of Libya said it had nothing to do with the video. It was clearly pre-planned for the anniversary. You're ridiculous. Any attack that occurred against Americans by Islamic fruitcakes in the few days was due to the video? Fucking spare me.Quote:
"Friday's attack at Camp Bastion in Helmand province left two US soldiers dead and some others wounded, US officials said. The Taliban said it was in response to the anti-Islamic video that has sparked a wave of ongoing protests... A defence official in Washington said the two dead were US marines, speaking on condition of anonymity." http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444023704577652173540734862.html http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2012/09/2012914221750984356.html
"Anti-American rage that began this week over a video insult to Islam spread to nearly 20 countries across the Middle East and beyond on Friday, with violent and sometimes deadly protests that convulsed the birthplaces of the Arab Spring revolutions, breached two more United States Embassies and targeted diplomatic properties of Germany and Britain." http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/15/world/middleeast/anti-american-protests-over-film-enter-4th-day.html?_r=2&hp&pagewanted=all&
On Saturday, September 15, protests began outside US embassies in France and Australia, plus flag burnings in the Phillipines. More countries were added to the list over the course of a few weeks. Violence and casualties over the video were notably high in Pakistan. This is from a single day of violence on September 21: "19 dead after thousands riot in Pakistan over anti-Muslim film" http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/09/21/1-killed-after-police-fire-on-anti-us-protests-in-pakistan/
A suicide bomber in Afghanistan killed 18 people including 9 foreigners (8 South Africans, 1 Brit), the group that claimed responsibility said it was over the video. The Taliban has also put out a bounty of 8 kg of gold for the makers of the film. The list goes on and on.
These nutcases put bounties on people's heads all the time. Who gives a fuck. The second one of them does so he should be targeted for assassination. It is conspiracy to commit murder.Quote:
The facts pretty much speak for themselves. Within 12 hours of Benghazi there were 4 protests under way outside US embassies, and within 60 hours there were protests in 19 countries, plus 2 Marines killed, all over the video. So I stand by my statement that the State department was indeed flooded with information regarding protests and violence over the video, and that it's reasonable for the State department to claim to have believed from the above facts that the ambassador in Benghazi was killed due to smoke inhalation at a violent protest.
What a crock of shit. The State Department had plenty of information that directly contradicts their lies.Quote:
Frankly, I really don't care either way, at all. Politicians lie to us more often than they tell the truth so I'm not exactly outraged one way or another. Besides, as far as "scandals" go, this one isn't very scandalous, is it? I mean, it's not exactly Iran-Contra material. The thing is, all of this information was actually extremely easy to find, so considering how much you obviously care about this, I should be surprised that you skipped over all the above facts. Of course, I'm not actually surprised because you have an agenda to strengthen, which is fine. I don't take sides, I'm not against any one group or thing or person, I'm against all groups, things, and people. The only thing I'm for is the truth, because the greatest disservice one can commit against oneself is to deny truths because they're deemed inconvenient to what one already believes. Personally, I couldn't care less what you believe so I'm not really trying to convince you of anything, I just put all that information in this post because I don't make unsubstantiated claims. Now don't get me wrong, you want to blame someone for all the fucked up things in the world, I uderstand that because I do too, but over time I realized that a) everyone is to blame, b) the people who are most to blame don't have names or faces, they don't get elected and they're not on TV or in the news, and c) the world is so fucked up that I pretty much have to be in a perpetual state of latent outrage for the rest of my life. In fact, there are so many atrocities happening today that are 1000 times worse than this "scandal" that I feel like I've wasted a great deal of time over something comparitively insignificant. Anyways, OP asked for an opinion, I gave mine, it seems you intended to turn this into some sort of debate, but I'm not in the habit of debating because it implies that I care what someone else thinks. See ya, and no hard feelings.
Sources http://www.irishtimes.com/news/protest-at-us-embassy-in-tunisia-1.736095 http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iLfPD2N3xoUHeY0N9o8M5N4xomlQ?docId=CNG.ea6b2b9091b3be35b473f9b1d1e7ec56.c1 http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hNum2gh0Xrg44prdwnoJRGZkZfuQ?docId=CNG.0d4bb2319ab51dd6f7a34cecaab1cf20.171 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19602177 http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/14/13856452-at-least-seven-reported-killed-in-regional-protests-over-anti-islamic-video
Protests are one thing. A coordinated, hours long attack with mortars and RPGs and other weapons is something entirely different. There was not one shred of evidence that the attack in Benghazi was related to a video. Not one. There is tons of evidence that it was a planned coordinated attack for the anniversary of 9/11. The administration deliberately lied.
This is far worse than Iran Contra. Iran Contra was about misuse of funds and defiance of Congress. People are dead here because of administration incompetence and they deliberately made up a complete lie about it to cover their ass in an election cycle.
--------------------
|
|