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OfflineGrandpa
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Does psilocybin really break down into psilocin?
    #1833622 - 08/20/03 03:35 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Does psilocybin really break down into psilocin in the body? I've read a few times that it does, but I'm not too confident in that fact. I'm thinking they're both distinctly different highs if taken separately.

I can't find much proof either way though. Any help?


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Edited by Grandpa (08/20/03 03:46 PM)


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Offlinedibbles
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Re: Does psilocybin really break down into psilocin? [Re: Grandpa]
    #1833713 - 08/20/03 03:51 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

"...one molecule of psilocybin breaks down into one molecule of psilocin"

"Once ingested, the phosphorus part is chopped off ("dephosphorylated") by the enzyme alkaline phosphatase, turning it into our other friend: [psilocin]"

Thats from erowid,via stamets.

Heres that link: http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_faq.shtml#4


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Does psilocybin really break down into psilocin? [Re: Grandpa]
    #1833715 - 08/20/03 03:51 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Psilocin, the 4-hydroxy analog of psilocybin, is formed by metabolic dephosphoylation of psilocybin and is the active species in thh central nervous system: Hoita, Weber, Toxicol Appl. Pharmacol. 4, 730 (1962).


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OfflineGrandpa
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Registered: 07/22/03
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Re: Does psilocybin really break down into psilocin? [Re: Seuss]
    #1833802 - 08/20/03 04:04 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

so if you took 20mg psilocin it will be equivilant to 20mg psilocybin?

I've heard from somewhere that 4-ho-det and 4-ho-dmt have different effects sometimes.

"There are two generalizations implicit here, one of which I am quite at peace with, but the other is both complex and disturbing. The OK item is the casual equation between the hydroxy compound psilocin, the acetate ester, and the phosphate ester, psilocybin. As I had discussed in the CZ-74 to CEY-19 entries in 4-HO-DET, there is no proof that the ester goes to the indolol metabolically, but it is a good guess, and there have been no demonstrated differences in their pharmacology. Ditto here, with psilocin and psilocybin. I have explored both of them as pure chemicals, and I find them completely interchangeable as to their pharmacological properties. " -shulgin

I just found this in tihkal. thanks for the answers.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Does psilocybin really break down into psilocin? [Re: Grandpa]
    #1833851 - 08/20/03 04:14 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

> so if you took 20mg psilocin it will be equivilant to 20mg psilocybin?

No. They have different atomic weights.


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Offlinedibbles
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Re: Does psilocybin really break down into psilocin? [Re: Seuss]
    #1833892 - 08/20/03 04:24 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Read the chemistry part of the above link, it goes into detail on what your asking.


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Anonymous

Re: Does psilocybin really break down into psilocin? [Re: dibbles]
    #1834179 - 08/20/03 05:43 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Read shit about psilocybin/psilocin in TIHKAL. Its believed that thats true but its not confirmed. I dont think anyone really knows for sure.

"there is no proof that the ester goes to the indolol metabolically, but it is a good guess, and there have been no demonstrated differences in their pharmacology" TIHKAL entry for 4-ho-dmt (psilocin)


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Anonymous

Re: Does psilocybin really break down into psilocin? [Re: ]
    #1834188 - 08/20/03 05:44 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

grandpa: 4-ho-det and 4-ho-dmt are completely different chemicals
4-ho-dmt is psilocin and its phosphate ester is psilocybin. 4-ho-det is a legal research chemical.


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OfflineNoviseer
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Re: Does psilocybin really break down into psilocin? [Re: ]
    #1834543 - 08/20/03 07:32 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I've read that psilocybin is like orally active DMT in that your MAO enzymes will metabolize the phosphorus part and thus turn the whole molecule into psilocin, which is almost identical to N,N DMT aside from that little 4 hydroxy stub left where the phosphorus was.  Semantics, spelling, and logic aside, is that right? :crazy: :confused: :grin:


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Edited by Noviseer (08/20/03 07:33 PM)


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Offlinewhole9
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Re: Does psilocybin really break down into psilocin? [Re: Noviseer]
    #1834547 - 08/20/03 07:32 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

wtfux?


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OfflineGrandpa
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Re: Does psilocybin really break down into psilocin? [Re: ]
    #1834850 - 08/20/03 09:09 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

iamhimheisme said:
grandpa: 4-ho-det and 4-ho-dmt are completely different chemicals
4-ho-det is a legal research chemical.




4-ho-det is psilocybin, i'm almost 100% sure.


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I don't intend for this to take on a political tone. I'm just here for the drugs.
--Nancy Reagan, former First Lady


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Anonymous

Re: Does psilocybin really break down into psilocin? [Re: Grandpa]
    #1835441 - 08/20/03 11:35 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I dont think so, you can buy 4-ho-det from some research chemical vendors and im pretty sure psilocybin is scheduled. Could be wrong though, let me know if you find out for sure.


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Offlinejimbu
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Re: Does psilocybin really break down into psilocin? [Re: ]
    #1835775 - 08/21/03 01:21 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

4-ho-det = 4-hydroxy-diethyltryptamine NOT psilocybin
4-ho-dmt = 4-hydroxy-dimethyltryptamine aka psilocybin.

am i correct?


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Anonymous

Re: Does psilocybin really break down into psilocin? [Re: jimbu]
    #1835836 - 08/21/03 01:51 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

thats what i thought, as far as i know its correct


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Anonymous

Re: Does psilocybin really break down into psilocin? [Re: ]
    #1835846 - 08/21/03 01:56 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)



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OfflineGrandpa
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Registered: 07/22/03
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Re: Does psilocybin really break down into psilocin? [Re: ]
    #1836002 - 08/21/03 03:17 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

ahh, 4-po-dmt is psilocybin.

now don't I feel psilly.


--------------------
I don't intend for this to take on a political tone. I'm just here for the drugs.
--Nancy Reagan, former First Lady


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Offlinegir
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Re: Does psilocybin really break down into psilocin? [Re: ]
    #1836027 - 08/21/03 03:34 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

4-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine(4-HO-DMT) = Psilocin

O-phosphoryl-4-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine(4-HO-DMT Phospahate ester) = Psilocybin

4-hydroxy-N,N-diethyltryptamine(4-HO-DET) = Ethocin or CZ-74

O-phosphoryl-4-hydroxy-N,N-diethyltryptamine(4-HO-DET Phosphate Ester)= Ethylcybin or CEY-19

The 4-Hydroxylated DET's are not scheduled. Ethocin and Ethylcybin are names swim has seen these chemicals sold under. Dont know if those are officialized names or not. As far as psilocybin being broken down to psilocin and Ethylcybin breakind down to Ethocin, heres a quote from TIHKAL:

"On the topic of psilocybin and psilocin, one of the most frequent questions I am asked is, "Isn't it true that psilocybin is immediately converted to psilocin in the blood stream, and so the two chemicals are in essence identical, molecule for molecule?" At this moment I always suppress a brief sense of mental fragmentation, with the automatic reply, "Where is the evidence that psilocybin is converted to psilocin in man?" If it exists, I certainly do not know of it. This clears my conscience. I really do not know the answer. But I have a tremendously strong suspicion that it really does. Any such ester, be it the phosphate, the sulfate, or the acetate, would all be easily split to the archetypal indolol by the ubiquitous esterases in the body. I do indeed believe, in my inner heart, that they all act upon the brain as the same end product, psilocin. And here, with the N,N-diethyl homologue, the same arguments probably hold as well."


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