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Stropharis



Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 1,854
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Stro's Take On Pasteurization 2
#18317773 - 05/25/13 08:03 AM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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Stro's Take On PasteurizationI find one of the most important things in making your pasteurizing using a stove easier is knowing your stove and current set up. We want to hold the temperature of the substrate between 140 to 170°F for at least one hour, knowing your set up will make this much easier. One of the best write ups with in the year using this method with jars is hands down Frank's Proper Pasteurization Tek; a well done write up elaborating and explaining how to make adjustments on previously establish methods of pasteurization. Using different equipment and stoves will change temperature fluctuations thus leaving it to you to make any necessary adjustments to the method. I used to use pillow cases, then I used spawn bags and other heat resistant bags for a while. Now, more often than not, I find myself using jars. The following is what works for me with both bags and jars with minor adjustments to this when using bags. For this write up I will be using two quart jars and one 1/2 quart jar, this is done out of curiosity to see if there were any major differences in temperature fluctuations. Depicted below is the quart jar ready to be pasteurized.  I start by placing the jars that are ready to be pasteurized in the pot I intend to use, in this case, a trusty old pesto PC. I fill it with water to about a half inch below the lid of the smallest jar.  I then turn the stove on medium to high and start a timer for 15 minutes When I return to the stove, the water temperature has climbed to the target range, I then turn it off completely and I close the lid. If I check on the stove 15 minutes later, the internal temperature of the substate is around 160, usually just under and holding. Now that I know this method works, I no longer have to return to the stove. I just leave it off and let it sit over night.  The substrate will stay with in pasteurization range for well over an hour   Using this method I can do this in the evening and leave it over night once I turn the stove off. Nothing original here, just another method to read over when fine tuning your own. - Stro
Edited by Stropharis (04/11/15 03:19 PM)
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Tmethyl
Smear in the shale


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Re: Stro's Take On Pasteurization [Re: Stropharis] 1
#18317799 - 05/25/13 08:12 AM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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Nicely done Stroph. I'm sure a lot of new cultivators will learn from this.
-------------------- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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tripdawg420
low life with no life



Registered: 02/02/09
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Re: Stro's Take On Pasteurization [Re: Tmethyl] 1
#18318133 - 05/25/13 10:20 AM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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36fuckin5
Alchemycologist


Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,079
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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Re: Stro's Take On Pasteurization [Re: Stropharis] 1
#18318615 - 05/25/13 12:33 PM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stropharis said: When I return to the stove, the water temperature has dropped to the target range. I do not place my jars in the pot prior to the water temperature dropping below 170°F. Although the internal temperature of the substrate will significantly lag behind the water temperature, the outside substrate near the glass of the jar will not have such a large lag time, if I place my jar in the water when it is at boiling for example (round abouts 200°F) the chances of partially sterilizing my substrate are greater.
You're misunderstanding what partial sterilization is. It is NOT sterilizing part of your substrate. It is bringing the entire substrate (including the center) over 160F but not to 250F, and for not long enough to kill everything. If you end up sterilizing the very outside of your substrate, that's perfectly fine because enough beneficial microbes survive in the center to make up for it. They grow pretty damn quick.
So go ahead and toss your jars in ASAP to save time. Don't put them into boiling water without tempering them with hot water first. That can break jars.
-------------------- Redd Foxx said: If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more. Pat The Bunny said: A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me. bodhisatta said: i recommend common sense and figuring it out. These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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Stropharis



Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 1,854
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Re: Stro's Take On Pasteurization [Re: 36fuckin5] 1
#18318792 - 05/25/13 01:13 PM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
36fuckin5 said: You're misunderstanding what partial sterilization is. It is NOT sterilizing part of your substrate.
In the context of this write up the words "partial sterilization" are being used accurately. Sterilization existing only in part of the substrate. That being, in this case, the substrate closest to the glass of the jar.
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36fuckin5 said: If you end up sterilizing the very outside of your substrate, that's perfectly fine because enough beneficial microbes survive in the center to make up for it.
I won't argue that; but I will say that I have no way of measuring exactly how hot it got, for how long, and just how much of the beneficial microorganisms were in fact killed, utilizing the method above, none of the substrate is sterilized and these unknowns would be of no concern.
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36fuckin5
Alchemycologist


Registered: 08/11/03
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Re: Stro's Take On Pasteurization [Re: Stropharis] 1
#18319100 - 05/25/13 02:32 PM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stropharis said:
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36fuckin5 said: You're misunderstanding what partial sterilization is. It is NOT sterilizing part of your substrate.
In the context of this write up the words "partial sterilization" are being used accurately. Sterilization existing only in part of the substrate. That being, in this case, the substrate closest to the glass of the jar.
That is not accurate at all, even in this context. As I said, partial sterilization occurs when you heat your entire substrate over pasteurization temps, but not to sterilization temps. You are referring to partially sterilizing part of the substrate, which simply makes no difference as long as the middle of your substrate stays between 140-160F for 60-90 minutes.
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I won't argue that; but I will say that I have no way of measuring exactly how hot it got, for how long, and just how much of the beneficial microorganisms were in fact killed, utilizing the method above, none of the substrate is sterilized and these unknowns would be of no concern.
They're of no concern either way though. Do some experiments and you'll find out. Your method will definitely work, and well, but I just believe you're over-thinking it and making it harder than it has to be.
-------------------- Redd Foxx said: If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more. Pat The Bunny said: A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me. bodhisatta said: i recommend common sense and figuring it out. These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
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Re: Stro's Take On Pasteurization [Re: 36fuckin5] 1
#18319121 - 05/25/13 02:36 PM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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great stuff stropharis!
--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Stropharis



Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 1,854
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Re: Stro's Take On Pasteurization [Re: cronicr] 1
#18319202 - 05/25/13 02:56 PM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
36fuckin5 said: That is not accurate at all, even in this context.
I am speaking english Hombre, it makes complete sense.
It means exactly what the words mean.
Partial; of or relating to a part rather than the whole : not general or total Sterilization; to free from living microorganisms

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36fuckin5 said: Do some experiments and you'll find out.
Been around for a bit, I'm not saying it doesn't work for others, but for me, overheating my substrate or casing during pasteurization has caused problems.
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36fuckin5 said: I just believe you're over-thinking it and making it harder than it has to be
Looks pretty simple to me!
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cronicr said: great stuff stropharis!
Thanks Bro, like I said. Nothing orignal, just a contribution for folks to read through when developing their own methods.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Stro's Take On Pasteurization [Re: Stropharis] 1
#18319964 - 05/25/13 06:14 PM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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This is close to the way I used to pasteurize substrates and casings also. Had a similar preference of only adding substrates when the water is to correct temperature. Except unlike you I just drew hot tap water then set the stove on the precise setting I knew keeps the batch right under 170°F.
The way I see it, the following is definitely the most consistent controlled and assured way of perfect pasteurization: Find the stove setting that keeps your water precisely 160-170°F, leave it on until core of sub/casing material reaches that temp then set your timer, turn the stove off after it's been up to temp for about 30mins, leave in water until it has been up to temp 90-120 minutes.
I don't like jars though. I pasteurized in thin plastic whenever possible; it reduces the warmup time dramatically, but for the reasons you stated and referred to as "partial sterilization", you'd need to start at proper temp sorta like you do or I suggested here, since the sub has direct exposure to the water's temperature. Perhaps starting with excessively high temps would make sense for starting with jars, but both increase the amount of energy to do the job, and jars increase the time too.
Of course, now I do it all different :] but maybe you should try those suggestions with this kind of treatment! They served me very well
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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Stropharis



Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 1,854
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Re: Stro's Take On Pasteurization [Re: Violet] 1
#18327709 - 05/27/13 12:18 PM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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I also use plastic as well sometimes but just as it takes a shorter amount of time to get warmed up it also takes a shorter amount of time to cool down. I find that when I get it to target temperatures using bags and turn the stove off it cools down too quickly requiring me to make another trip to the stove, I am sure I can tune this with just a little more effort though. Unfortunately my stove does not have a setting that will hold perfect temps.
The coolest thing about this post is that I did not type at all, with the exception of a few edits. I'm actually speaking into my iPad and it's typing for me. Technology!
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Stro's Take On Pasteurization [Re: Stropharis] 1
#18328403 - 05/27/13 02:42 PM (10 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stropharis said: I also use plastic as well sometimes but just as it takes a shorter amount of time to get warmed up it also takes a shorter amount of time to cool down. I find that when I get it to target temperatures using bags and turn the stove off it cools down too quickly requiring me to make another trip to the stove
See, this is a good thing if you don't allow the temp to drop prematurely. It's good to have the temp drop sharply when you're done; it ensures that the beneficial microbes left behind aren't exposed to further taxing heat after the infectious organisms are destroyed. Not doing so may not cause apparent problems for people but I suspect that doing so can unknowingly contribute to an increased shot at success.
The real point is that jars taking longer to cool down isn't a good thing over taking a short time to cool down because of the extended energy/time required to come to temperature for the same reason. If you're using the precise procedure as glass but with plastic instead, then the quick cool down of plastic may seem a problem but due to quicker rise it still gets proper treatment altogether with less energy/time, but starting with too-hi a heat (also requiring more energy) could be a prob with plastic in a glass-made procedure.
Some people may not care to think on it that much, but the way l look at it is, facts are facts and we're here talkin' facts ya know!
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Stropharis said: Unfortunately my stove does not have a setting that will hold perfect temps.
You may have mistaken my meaning a bit there A specific heat setting will put off specific heat force. You need only find out what stove setting keeps your pasteurization water baths at right under 170°F. This will be a bit different for everyone's stove/pots, but presuming one does the prep with the same pot etc. each time, then the same stove setting will do it every time.
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Stropharis said: The coolest thing about this post is that I did not type at all, with the exception of a few edits. I'm actually speaking into my iPad and it's typing for me. Technology!
I kno rite?!
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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Stropharis



Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 1,854
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Re: Stro's Take On Pasteurization [Re: Violet] 1
#18330114 - 05/27/13 08:29 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Violet said: Find the stove setting that keeps your water precisely 160-170°F
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Stropharis said: Unfortunately my stove does not have a setting that will hold perfect temps.
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Violet said: You may have mistaken my meaning a bit there
English seems to have it's limits around these parts.
As of yet, I have not found a set up which will provide a setting that keeps my water precisely 160-170°F nor my substate or casing.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Stro's Take On Pasteurization [Re: Violet] 1
#18330235 - 05/27/13 08:51 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stropharis said: English seems to have it's limits around these parts.
As of yet, I have not found a set up which will provide a setting that keeps my water precisely 160-170°F nor my substate or casing.
Ok then in the attempt to break those limitations instead of succumb to them:
You said "my stove does not have a setting that will hold perfect temps" I'm not saying to look for the "hold perfect temp" button.
Quote:
Violet said: You need only find out what stove setting keeps your pasteurization water baths at right under 170°F.
It's pretty simple to find once the temp is in range; if the temperature drops it's a bit too low, if it rises it's a bit too high. I have no problem finding this spot on the dial by paying attention to thermometer in the water. When I was pasteurizing bulk subs all the time I quit using a thermometer after watching it closely enough to find the stove dial setting that kept it in the right spot. I promise it's not hard; if one intends to keep pasteurizing pretty much the same way time after time then one may be glad to have found out such a simple thing…
IMO these things are the last little "dents" to hammer-in regarding this type of sub pasteurization tech. Some people may find them irrelevant but they were of huge help to me.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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Stropharis



Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 1,854
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Re: Stro's Take On Pasteurization [Re: Violet] 1
#18332930 - 05/28/13 11:41 AM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said: You need only find out what stove setting keeps your pasteurization water baths at right under 170F.
I'm not sure how to spell it out for you any other way, but believe it or not, this setting does not exist on my stove.
The alternative option is the OFF position and pot covered after temps have been risin.
Although everything can always use fine tuning in this hobby and I am always open to input and recommendations, the above method is what works for me with my current stove and setup, hence the tittle, "Stro's take".
There is no need to repeat yourself.
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neptunez
Stranger
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Re: Stro's Take On Pasteurization [Re: Violet] 1
#18334924 - 05/28/13 07:11 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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I have a question. For a first time casing, I want to know when applying my patches to the first bits of mycelium that come up to ensure a more even pinset, does it need to be pasteurized/sterilized before being layed down?
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Stropharis



Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 1,854
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Re: Stro's Take On Pasteurization [Re: neptunez] 1
#18336761 - 05/29/13 03:50 AM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
neptunez said: I have a question. For a first time casing, I want to know when applying my patches to the first bits of mycelium that come up to ensure a more even pinset, does it need to be pasteurized/sterilized before being layed down?
Pasteurized  Sterilized 
Although if you are working with cubes and maintaing ideal conditions, some will argue that you even need a casing layer to begin with, let alone patching it if you are using one. When I do use one, I patch with pasteurized casing material.
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veda_sticks
Cultivator




Registered: 07/29/07
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Re: Stro's Take On Pasteurization [Re: Violet] 1
#18336784 - 05/29/13 04:05 AM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said: This is close to the way I used to pasteurize substrates and casings also. Had a similar preference of only adding substrates when the water is to correct temperature. Except unlike you I just drew hot tap water then set the stove on the precise setting I knew keeps the batch right under 170°F.
The way I see it, the following is definitely the most consistent controlled and assured way of perfect pasteurization: Find the stove setting that keeps your water precisely 160-170°F, leave it on until core of sub/casing material reaches that temp then set your timer, turn the stove off after it's been up to temp for about 30mins, leave in water until it has been up to temp 90-120 minutes.
I don't like jars though. I pasteurized in thin plastic whenever possible; it reduces the warmup time dramatically, but for the reasons you stated and referred to as "partial sterilization", you'd need to start at proper temp sorta like you do or I suggested here, since the sub has direct exposure to the water's temperature. Perhaps starting with excessively high temps would make sense for starting with jars, but both increase the amount of energy to do the job, and jars increase the time too.
Of course, now I do it all different :] but maybe you should try those suggestions with this kind of treatment! They served me very well
I think i need to change the colour of my name. I was reading this going wtf i dont remember posting this?? hang on casings?? I dont use casing layers, and id never say casings??
oh wait its VOILET not VEDA_STICKS. not that the usernames are similar.

-------------------- PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666 Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek
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neptunez
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Re: Stro's Take On Pasteurization [Re: Stropharis] 1
#18338410 - 05/29/13 01:38 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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thanks for the reply.
So tell me if this sounds right...
I'll put a layer of verm or 50%peat 50%verm on the bottom, colonized cakes, and a 1/2in layer of 50/50 over the cakes, or do I not need the 1/2 layer over the cakes. I am working with cubes also. I thought putting that layer over the cakes was making the mycileum stronger for more flushes and have it establish it self stronger.
I've been reading the Ryche Hawkes 50/50 casing guide...
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Stropharis



Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 1,854
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Re: Stro's Take On Pasteurization [Re: neptunez] 1
#18338572 - 05/29/13 02:12 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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I breezed through Ryche Hawkes 50/50 casing. That technique is old, Dude is talking about aquariums.
My recommendation is to fruit your cakes as cakes using a decent fruiting chamber and then move on to grains and spawning to a substrate once you complete a successful grow or two.
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tko
Stranger

Registered: 05/08/13
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Re: Stro's Take On Pasteurization [Re: Stropharis] 1
#18339197 - 05/29/13 04:32 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
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does anyone know the kind of digital thermometer with the probes that frank uses in his tek?
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