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OfflineTFpek
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons +bacteria&potency [Re: Violet]
    #18277130 - 05/17/13 01:54 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
No casing, TFpek? May be dry there.




There's been condensation on the tub walls this whole time--I'll case it tomorrow and see what happens!

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Invisiblethelanzii


Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 5,435
Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons +bacteria&potency [Re: TFpek]
    #18277861 - 05/17/13 08:48 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

8 of my 45 containers contammed.  My suspicion as to why is because I used pre soaked grain that had been in the fridge for at least 3 weeks.  Some of my containers are almost finished, which I am excited about for sure.  Making another 45 today.  Anxious to push the first ones into the next stage

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons +bacteria&potency [Re: thelanzii]
    #18278862 - 05/17/13 01:27 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

TFpek said:
Quote:

Violet said:
No casing, TFpek? May be dry there.



There's been condensation on the tub walls this whole time--I'll case it tomorrow and see what happens!



Moisture seems to evaporate more quickly from the grains than moisture droplets, I suspect due to the material and immense surface area, which would in fact be why there's still condensation visible if anything.

Quote:

Nemmies said:
8 of my 45 containers contammed.  My suspicion as to why is because I used pre soaked grain that had been in the fridge for at least 3 weeks.  Some of my containers are almost finished, which I am excited about for sure.  Making another 45 today.  Anxious to push the first ones into the next stage



Yeah maybe longer sterilization would have made up for that. And of course it could always be inoc procedure, ya gotta get the hang of clean work with these things cracked-lid.

I understand!, but don't be too anxious! Rushed results seem to be quite lesser than patient ones.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

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OfflineHobart Cutter
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons +bacteria&potency [Re: Violet]
    #18282917 - 05/18/13 10:04 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Mini grass seed jar:


Just testing my LC before trying a bigger container. (It got too wet because I injected 1 cc of suspension to make sure I got some mycelium in there. But I'm just looking to see what starts growing and how it smells in a few days, so it's not a problem. Also trying outpolyurethane earplug for a self sealing injection point.)


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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons +bacteria&potency [Re: Violet]
    #18282936 - 05/18/13 10:11 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
Quote:

TFpek said:
Quote:

Violet said:
No casing, TFpek? May be dry there.



There's been condensation on the tub walls this whole time--I'll case it tomorrow and see what happens!



Moisture seems to evaporate more quickly from the grains than moisture droplets, I suspect due to the material and immense surface area, which would in fact be why there's still condensation visible if anything.

Quote:

Nemmies said:
8 of my 45 containers contammed.  My suspicion as to why is because I used pre soaked grain that had been in the fridge for at least 3 weeks.  Some of my containers are almost finished, which I am excited about for sure.  Making another 45 today.  Anxious to push the first ones into the next stage



Yeah maybe longer sterilization would have made up for that. And of course it could always be inoc procedure, ya gotta get the hang of clean work with these things cracked-lid.

I understand!, but don't be too anxious! Rushed results seem to be quite lesser than patient ones.




grains ideally should be sterilised soon after the soak . As bacteria will start to grow. Even in the fridge bacterias and molds can still grow.

if theres too much bacteria in your grains its possible that something can survive a 90 minute pressure cook cycle.


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek

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Invisibleanne halonium
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Registered: 05/07/13
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons +bacteria&potency [Re: veda_sticks]
    #18283667 - 05/18/13 01:23 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)





grains ideally should be sterilised soon after the soak . As bacteria will start to grow. Even in the fridge bacterias and molds can still grow.

if theres too much bacteria in your grains its possible that something can survive a 90 minute pressure cook cycle.





i routinely ,( for over 2 decades)
prep grains, load cooker, and, let sit 24-36 hours,
BEFORE i cook, and,i never cook more than 40 minits.
35 min is actually more typical.

its very rare, a container contams,
and ,sometimes i let containers sit weeks / months before i inoc.

sterile is sterile.

keep in mind, i use AA cookers, and PP5 containers.

the whole point of violets tek ,
is NOT to become a different tek than presented.
otherwise, it would have the same results , of other teks...




^ pics above, sat 24-36 hours at room temp before cooking,
35-40 min cook......
and ,then sat approx 3 weeks till innoc.

a sealed sterile container , is a sealed sterile container.


different loads, different subs ,
different cookers, will process at different times ,
and bacteria/ contams,
are either dead ,or alive, based on if it was done right or not.

these methods,
dont require giant cookers packed with corn ,
and ,hissing for hours , in order to get a crop.


--------------------
:aliendance:

Edited by anne halonium (05/18/13 01:29 PM)

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OfflineMastaBlastar
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons +bacteria&potency [Re: Hobart Cutter]
    #18286437 - 05/19/13 03:26 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Hobart Cutter said:
Mini grass seed jar:


Just testing my LC before trying a bigger container. (It got too wet because I injected 1 cc of suspension to make sure I got some mycelium in there. But I'm just looking to see what starts growing and how it smells in a few days, so it's not a problem. Also trying outpolyurethane earplug for a self sealing injection point.)



Did you pc that?


--------------------
Everything I have said, may say, will say, am thinking about saying and/or thinking/typing/dreaming/writing is in all likelyhood made up and has no factual basis in reality whatsoever, and is likely all plagiarized and copy pasted straight from someone else, so get mad at them .  Just a warning

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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18286534 - 05/19/13 04:17 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I'm not here presenting a "wow" factor. If I were I'd be showing you what full-fruit of 36 containers per greenhouse shelf looks like with these isolates, canopies for flush after flush after flush. My intent is only to show the average capability range of a single cake and the ease at which they can be used and multiplied.




:waitwhat: Nah, I wanna see that!!

:peace:PS


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 

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OfflineHobart Cutter
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons +bacteria&potency [Re: MastaBlastar]
    #18286924 - 05/19/13 08:13 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

quote]MastaBlastar said:
Did you pc that?



Yes.


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OfflineHobart Cutter
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18292501 - 05/20/13 12:06 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
Ok so, Hobart Cutter.
Why are you using a container like that? Done right it could work but would not be fun by comparison and likely wouldn't work quite the same. Modification is probably necessary too.
Those snap-top containers…




Well, those particular containers have now been put to use transporting pie to my girlfriends mum, and will probably not be returned. (I was not consulted.)

So hey, grass seed in filter bags. Should work just fine, right?


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Hobart Cutter]
    #18293633 - 05/20/13 04:32 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, no differently than any either, neither better or worse… except more inoc points


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

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Offlinesmurf_master
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: Violet]
    #18293744 - 05/20/13 05:03 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Violet do you secretly work for ziploc?!? Haha best product placement.


I'm doing transfers today. Thanks for the inspiration to try something other than cakes, this is a great alternative to bulk/monotubs (which is was dreading to deal with)





Edit: My PC can only fit two pints on their sides is that an issue since you are supposed to leave the lids loose?

Edited by smurf_master (05/20/13 06:44 PM)

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OfflineMuhalla
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Re: Don't waste grain, there's a better way! • Seed & Plastic — A power tek & million reasons +Potency [Re: smurf_master]
    #18293787 - 05/20/13 05:16 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I can't wait to give this a shot! It's gonna be a blast:pipesmoke:


--------------------
:awehigh:

This is quite interesting. Carry on. 

                                                           
                                                                 

                                                :bearbreakdance:

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons +bacteria&potency [Re: Hobart Cutter]
    #18294660 - 05/20/13 08:10 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

smurf_master said:
My PC can only fit two pints on their sides is that an issue since you are supposed to leave the lids loose?





When I need some for quick prints I lay them on their side in my equally small second cooker. There is no grain in it tho. I bet you'll be fine, but you should invest in another cooker, like one of these (can be found cheaper) which can sterilize 6 at a time in 40min if lightly loaded!


Quote:

smurf_master said:
Violet do you secretly work for ziploc?!? Haha best product placement.




Wouldn't complain if they paid me!

Here's betting that this earns less money for the permanent plastics industry than other paradigms make for the spore, coir, glass, SFD/mycobag, etc industries…


Quote:

smurf_master said:
I'm doing transfers today. Thanks for the inspiration to try something other than cakes, this is a great alternative to bulk/monotubs (which is was dreading to deal with)



You're welcome!
I understand!


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

Edited by Violet (05/20/13 09:05 PM)

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OfflineMasterElectron
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons +bacteria&potency [Re: Violet]
    #18294819 - 05/20/13 08:41 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I found some seaweed extract says 1oz per gal, %.1N and %1chlorine, think I could mix this up and leave in open container to remove the chlorine or wud it b ok? for the soak that is....


--------------------
:goat:

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons +bacteria&potency [Re: MasterElectron]
    #18294830 - 05/20/13 08:43 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

No

Tek, as presented.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons +bacteria&potency [Re: Violet]
    #18294901 - 05/20/13 08:56 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

WATER & Efficiency

It's about the water. Almost entirely about the water in fact.

Nobody who is educated on myco matters underestimates the importance of water at any stage of the process.
However I feel that we've taken a somewhat poor perspective on the use of water for cultivation mycology, at least in regards to Cubensis and several other indoors Psilocybes.

Facts:
  • Mushrooms are mostly water ±90%, so effectively you cannot grow more mushrooms than you provide water
  • Some evaporation is unavoidable (desirable actually)
  • Colonized sub can hold more water than uncolonized sub material; once it's colonized it can soak it up like a water balloon and be just fine.
  • Grain does not hold enough water to take full advantage of its nutritious fruiting capacity
  • All water does not have to be present in the substrate at colonization.
    Dunks are obviously not a sterile procedure. Immediately after "birthing" PF cakes they go straight to a dunk!
    I've seen just 1/3" of seed in the bottom of quart jars grow mushrooms that reached out the top, more volume/weight in fungus than volume in grain! This is due to bottom-watering.
    Why? How?
    Because fully-colonized sub is extremely resistant to contamination. Once the nutrition is fully colonized (and especially with a bit of chew time it seems) you can definitely use non-sterile water without risking results.

    Therefore, and since mycelium can absorb and migrate moisture:
  • All water does not have to be present in the substrate for fruiting either.


    Did You Know?:
    Water has an incredibly high specific heat, a property of a substance that tells us how much heat is needed to raise the temperature of one kilogram of a material by one degree Celsius. A large specific heat means you have to put in a lot of energy for each degree increase in temperature. Specific heat is measured in joules per kilogram per degree Celsius (joule/kg/C) which means how many joules it takes to raise 1kg of the substance 1/C.

    You need to add 4,184 joules (1 calorie) of heat to 1 kilogram of water to raise the temperature by 1°C. You only need to add 470 joules of heat to raise the temperature of a kilogram of steel by 1°C. It takes nine times more energy to raise the temperature of water by 1° than it does to raise the temperature of the same mass of steel by 1°.


    Water is incredibly energy-hungry. Realize how little nutrition you're treating in your bulk substrates, and at what cost.


    So why do we destroy mycelium colonies on grain just to start new ones on heat-treated water masses? Seriously, why?!
    I know why we used to. Nobody had come up with a great way to hydrate/rehydrate grains for fruiting especially after crumble&case so the limited water capacity of grain was not enough to take full use of their nutrition. Instead of finding a good way to do so, cultivators seemed to favor adding lots of low-nutrient
    (thus could be pasteurized) water holding material.

    Yes, yields are increased with the use of bulk substrates over old-fashioned straight grain teks with no decent watering.
    So since yield itself was improved nobody had reason to realize that yield potential is reduced, and the addition of bulk subs to grains thus seemed like the best thing since spore prints.

    As happens so often in our world another procedure/trick/tool/habit was developed to get around the inefficiencies of a prior method. Now these thought patterns have been entrained into the practise and cause everyone to go to such great lengths for a result when much less is required in the line of materials, energy, time, space, to get the same yield at the same (or higher) quality.



    Despite their enormous water holding ability, "bulk" substrate blocks still must be hydrated for following flushes, and it's not fun to do.
    We can cut to the chase by bottom-watering as hydration application instead of the combined use of dunks and heat-treated bulk substrates.

    So if substrates don't have to hold ALL the water IN the substrate during colonizing OR for each flush, their huge energy expenditure for treatment is unnecessary, and they even reduce overall yield potential, then what is the point of using bulk substrates?

    My friends I see little or no point at all in using bulk substrate for these species, and many points NOT to have been stated.


  • --------------------
    Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

    PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
    The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
    Violet's Teks and Posts

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    Offlinesmegzilla69
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    Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons +bacteria&potency [Re: Violet]
        #18295135 - 05/20/13 09:47 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

    Hey violet thanks for the write up it was really thorough but...

    Any way u wanna make one of these simply saying what to do not explaining how much better or why it's better... My brain just can focus for that long to sift threw the tek


    --------------------

    EVERYTHING I SAY IS A LIE!!! N ALL MY PICS R STOLEN
    WORTH EVERY PENNY!!!!watch it pay for it self in # of high yield flushes!
    SO DOPE
    "The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination. "  Albert.

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    InvisibleViolet
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    Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons +bacteria&potency [Re: smegzilla69]
        #18295292 - 05/20/13 10:13 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

    Quote:

    smegzilla69 said:
    Hey violet thanks for the write up it was really thorough



    You're welcome, and thank you too! :mushroom2::heart::earth:

    Quote:

    smegzilla69 said:
    Any way u wanna make one of these simply saying what to do not explaining how much better or why it's better...



    No, and I'll tell you why.

    1) I won't talk about how I do things without why; Frankly I couldn't have attempted to without a much more drawn-out thread about details to the info wherein. Looking at what the thread has been as-is, imagine what calamity the thread would have been without so many of those details already present.

    2) All of the info is important and relevant to every facet of the tek. If you're not doing it as presented (or with only obviously minor variations like seed prep) and knowing why, then don't expect the likes of my results. From that angle it would have been senseless to post anything without everything.

    3) Many peeps of these myco communities don't yet hold paradigms that would allow them to fully understand this grow approach and philosophy, so it's as perhaps more important to put all that across than the basic acts of the tek. Otherwise this might look like a straight-grain kind of PF tek but it is certainly not that! Not to mention, my paradigm on it would be questioned anyway.

    Without the comprehensive info, the point cannot be put across!
    Quote:

    Violet said:
    This post and thread may feel lengthy to some. I hope to be totally clear regarding all facets of this approach and its logic, as much of it may not be understood or be misunderstood if I do not, as has already been the case in a few instances.




    Quote:

    smegzilla69 said:
    My brain just can focus for that long to sift threw the tek




    What you're looking for mostly is all in the first Half of the tek's posts, photos and brief instructions.

    Everything after this point is info, grow philosophy, data, comparisons...
    Quote:

    Violet said:
    So that's pretty much it for technique and photos!

    Most of the rest will be text related to the grow philosophy, relative effectiveness, reasons for the many facets of this grow style, the likes.
    If you want to read more about the results of this grow technique and why then continue on! It will pay off for you if you're truly interested in a grow like this.
    For others less reading-savvy peeps… well, skim I guess.





    The part that's thorough and detailed is Why. You don't have to read it if you don't want to.
    Quote:

    Violet said:
    If you enjoy a thorough read and love digging into myco mentalisms then you should enjoy this post as much as I enjoyed making it!




    --------------------
    Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

    PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
    The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
    Violet's Teks and Posts

    Edited by Violet (05/21/13 01:09 AM)

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    InvisibleZarotti
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    Re: Waste no grain, use no 'bulk'! •Seed & Plastic• a power Tek with a million reasons +bacteria&potency [Re: Violet]
        #18298288 - 05/21/13 01:32 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

    Goddam Bulk !
    Still getting contaminations!

    Have some full colonized grain jars left.
    Have you ever tried this method with
    a 3 inch high grain glass jar +casing?

    Will they perform well?

    Q about the casing:
    -> How to determine the proper
    moisture content for your casings when pasteurizing properly?
    Cause mine is really muddy can the myc colonize a really wet peat casing and whats the max timeframe for it?

    Thx

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