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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 13 years, 24 days
Another "Conspiracy Theory" Proven True!
    #1828725 - 08/19/03 05:18 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

(This story is a few weeks old, my apologies if it's a repost)

Despite the accounts of peace activists, civil liberties lawyers and left-wing journalists, federal agencies refused to admit that those people were put on a "potential terrorist list" and were subject to extra scrutiny at US Airports; until now...
- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Dave Lindorff

July 25, 2003 | GROUNDING THE FLYING NUN

Activists on the left and right -- including a 71-year-old Milwaukee nun and an art dealer who told other passengers that President Bush "is dumb as a rock" -- have long complained they were being hassled by airport security. After months of silence, the federal government says: It's true.

Ever since the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, reports have circulated that the U.S. airline security apparatus was targeting political activists for strict scrutiny and special searches, sometimes forcing them to miss flights. Despite the accounts of peace activists, civil liberties lawyers and left-wing journalists, federal agencies wouldn't confirm the policy and airline officials wouldn't discuss it, and so the stories had the feel of urban legend.

But in documents released this week in a federal court case in San Francisco, the U.S. Transportation Security Administration confirmed for the first time that it does keep not just a list of potential terrorists barred from the air, but also a list of "selectees" who are subject to strict security checks before they are allowed to board commercial aircraft. The agency has revealed almost nothing else about the selectee list, and is fighting in court to keep secret the names of people who are on it, the standards for putting them there.

It appears, however, that the list may contain thousands of names. Officials at the ACLU of Northern California, which is pressing the Freedom of Information Act case filed by two leftist newspaper editors, says it learned from authorities at Oakland Airport that there is a typed list of names that is 88 pages long. Between Sept. 11, 2001, and April 8, 2003, the ACLU says, over 363 passengers were stopped at San Francisco and Oakland airports -- either because their names appeared on that list or because their names were similar to names on a separate "no-fly" list made up of criminals and people with suspected terrorist ties.

Evidence compiled in a series of interviews suggests that activists on the left and right have been affected, as have many Arab Americans. That has civil liberties experts warning that the airport security checks have a chilling effect on routine political activity that is unprecedented in recent times.

"All the secrecy surrounding these lists, and the very fact that the TSA refuses to say how it compiles them, is outrageous," says Barbara Olshansky, an attorney with the left-leaning Center for Constitutional Rights. "It shows that this administration has no respect at all for the Bill of Rights, which guarantees the right of free speech and association and the right to travel freely. They're not balancing security and freedom. They don't care about freedom and civil liberties at all."

Olshansky has firsthand knowledge of the government policy: She says that she's been subjected to strip- and full-body searches every time she's flown since 9/11, even though she has no criminal record. Last November, she told Salon that she had been strip-searched on four flights she'd made on business; this week, she reported that she was specially targeted again for a search in February while trying to board a plane with her husband for a vacation trip to Puerto Rico.

"We had chosen Puerto Rico in part because my husband was afraid of what they'd do to me if we tried to return from a foreign trip," she says. Puerto Rico, a U.S. territory, is a domestic flight that doesn't require going through immigration or customs.

Salon first reported last November that the Transportation Security Administration keeps a list of about 1,000 people who are deemed "threats to aviation" -- many with links to terrorism -- and who are barred from flying under any circumstance. But that didn't seem to explain the unusual security standards applied to political activists and others with no visible link to terrorism or criminal activity. They were generally allowed to board planes after being searched.

A 71-year-old Milwaukee nun and peace activist was stopped from boarding a flight to Washington, where she and a group of students planned to lobby the Wisconsin congressional delegation against U.S. military aid to Colombia. An art dealer who'd been a high-ranking staffer in Ralph Nader's 2000 presidential campaign had been barred from a flight to Germany after telling other passengers in the check-in line that President George W. Bush "is dumb as a rock." And two journalists, Rebecca Gordon and Jan Adams of the antiwar magazine War Times, were told by an airline clerk that the were on "the FBI no-fly list." Even executives at the Eagle Forum, Phyllis Schlafly's old-school conservative group, expressed concern that several of their members had missed flights because they were delayed and questioned at airport security checkpoints.


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OfflineGernBlanston
unintended sideeffect

Registered: 05/28/03
Posts: 841
Loc: In my pants
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
Re: Another "Conspiracy Theory" Proven True! [Re: Cornholio]
    #1829006 - 08/19/03 10:33 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

And yet, somehow, people are telling us to shaddup about the Patriot Act. We are becoming a police state, and in a hurry. And if you kids don't believe that, then it's your blinders that are causing your disbelief, not my "paranoia".


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There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
  --  Howard Zinn


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Offlinewingnutx
Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,268
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
Re: Another "Conspiracy Theory" Proven True! [Re: GernBlanston]
    #1829141 - 08/19/03 11:40 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

And yet, somehow, people are telling us to shaddup about the Patriot Act.




Go here:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...;o=&fpart=1


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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 13 years, 24 days
Re: Another "Conspiracy Theory" Proven True! [Re: wingnutx]
    #1831976 - 08/20/03 02:20 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

That's awesome!  :thumbup:  Shows that the people who wanted us to shut up about the Patriot Act probably were the ones who had blinders on!


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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 13 years, 24 days
Re: Another "Conspiracy Theory" Proven True! [Re: Cornholio]
    #1832279 - 08/20/03 04:49 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Oh, and I just got this in my e-mail. If you're concerned about innocent people being put on terrorist lists, you can send a pre-written letter to the Department of Homeland Security by clicking here.

wingnutx's link is a great example of what these types of letters can do (believe me, I sent a ton of letters to Congress against the Patriot Act).


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OfflineFileSoup
member
Registered: 08/09/03
Posts: 142
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Another "Conspiracy Theory" Proven True! [Re: Cornholio]
    #1833618 - 08/20/03 03:34 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I am not concerned about innocent people being searched at an airport. However, I am concerned about innocent people getting blown up.

"She says that she's been subjected to strip- and full-body searches every time she's flown since 9/11, even though she has no criminal record." ~This does sound a little overboard, but neither you nor I know why she is on that list. There may be a good reason why she is on that list.

I would rather spend an extra 30 minutes at the airport with extra security precautions, then have a plane blown up.


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OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: Another "Conspiracy Theory" Proven True! [Re: Cornholio]
    #1833671 - 08/20/03 03:43 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Cornholio said:
Oh, and I just got this in my e-mail.  If you're concerned about innocent people being put on terrorist lists, you can send a pre-written letter to the Department of Homeland Security by clicking

wingnutx's link is a great example of what these types of letters can do (believe me, I sent a ton of letters to Congress against the Patriot Act). 




I bet sending that prewritten letter traces your ip, and automaticaly adds you to 'the list'.... :smirk:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Invisiblechodamunky
Cheers!

Registered: 02/28/02
Posts: 2,030
Loc: sailing the seas of chees...
Re: Another "Conspiracy Theory" Proven True! [Re: FileSoup]
    #1834102 - 08/20/03 05:27 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I would rather spend an extra 30 minutes at the airport with extra security precautions, then have a plane blown up. 

Looks like CNN has done it's job :thumbup: That's an excellent example of the "action /  reaction " tactic at work. The US government has used the excuse of terrorism (which they have used regulary since WW2 btw) to further cast their prying eyes into your privacty and rights. 


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OfflineFileSoup
member
Registered: 08/09/03
Posts: 142
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Another "Conspiracy Theory" Proven True! [Re: chodamunky]
    #1834327 - 08/20/03 06:14 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

"The US government has used the excuse of terrorism (which they have used regulary since WW2 btw) to further cast their prying eyes into your privacty and rights."

Good! We will catch more terrorists this way.


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OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 16,233
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 13 days, 39 minutes
Re: Another "Conspiracy Theory" Proven True! [Re: FileSoup]
    #1834361 - 08/20/03 06:30 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

of course you will... :rolleyes:


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Anonymous

Re: Another "Conspiracy Theory" Proven True! [Re: FileSoup]
    #1834362 - 08/20/03 06:30 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

i hope you're being sarcastic.


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OfflineFileSoup
member
Registered: 08/09/03
Posts: 142
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Another "Conspiracy Theory" Proven True! [Re: Rono]
    #1834371 - 08/20/03 06:34 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Your reply makes no sense. What do you mean?


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OfflineFileSoup
member
Registered: 08/09/03
Posts: 142
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Another "Conspiracy Theory" Proven True! [Re: ]
    #1834374 - 08/20/03 06:34 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

no


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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 13 years, 24 days
Re: Another "Conspiracy Theory" Proven True! [Re: FileSoup]
    #1834725 - 08/20/03 08:29 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

FileSoup said:
"The US government has used the excuse of terrorism (which they have used regulary since WW2 btw) to further cast their prying eyes into your privacty and rights."

Good! We will catch more terrorists this way.



You know, if the US was a free country, I might actually be a little more ok with all the spying and lack of privacy for my protection. Because then it wouldn't matter if the Government knew I was smoking pot, or doing anything else that is now considered a victimless crime. But since we're not a free country, this type of spying can lead to all kinds of harm for people doing harmless things that should never be illegal in the first place.


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: Another "Conspiracy Theory" Proven True! [Re: Cornholio]
    #1834744 - 08/20/03 08:36 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Since there are no free countries currently in existence, why single out the US?

pinky


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OfflineFileSoup
member
Registered: 08/09/03
Posts: 142
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Another "Conspiracy Theory" Proven True! [Re: Cornholio]
    #1834833 - 08/20/03 09:03 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

"But since we're not a free country, this type of spying can lead to all kinds of harm for people doing harmless things that should never be illegal in the first place."

So are you saying we would be better with no government at all? What the hell is a free country anyways?

Also we have laws in this country and if you break them you should go to jail. What might seem victimless to you may not seem that way to other people. Were you refering to drugs there?


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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 13 years, 24 days
Re: Another "Conspiracy Theory" Proven True! [Re: FileSoup]
    #1835133 - 08/20/03 10:21 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

FileSoup said:
we have laws in this country and if you break them you should go to jail. What might seem victimless to you may not seem that way to other people. Were you refering to drugs there?


Drug laws among MANY other things. Here's a pretty good example of things we should NOT have laws against. If we relaxed these laws, then I'd consider us a "free" country, and would be a lot more willing to allow the government to "spy" on me.


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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 13 years, 24 days
Re: Another "Conspiracy Theory" Proven True! [Re: Phred]
    #1835137 - 08/20/03 10:22 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
Since there are no free countries currently in existence, why single out the US?


Beause that's the country with the Patriot Act and the one I live in.


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