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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote.
#1827121 - 08/18/03 04:21 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Azmodeus
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Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1827146 - 08/18/03 04:27 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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the page is down...
-------------------- "Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source. Lest we forget. "
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shakta
Infidel
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Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Azmodeus]
#1827166 - 08/18/03 04:33 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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It must be the article about the ACLU trying to stop the recall in CA. I thought the exact same thing LDS. I think it is a bit confusing though. The article that is. First it talked about the old machines sucking. Then it sad that not hiring enough translators was hampering minorities rights. Sounds like they are just trying to postpone the recall to me. The ACLU went off the deep end a long time ago.
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GernBlanston
unintended sideeffect
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Azmodeus]
#1827170 - 08/18/03 04:34 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Of course "they" think minorities are too stupid to vote. Just ask the 90,000 black and hispanic voters purged from the Florida voter records by Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris just months before the 2000 presidential election. Dumb as hell, the lot of em.
-------------------- There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people. -- Howard Zinn
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shakta
Infidel
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: GernBlanston]
#1827174 - 08/18/03 04:34 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Here we go...
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1827185 - 08/18/03 04:37 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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The link works for me but here it is... Federal Judge Hears Arguments on Ballot in California Recall Monday, August 18, 2003 LOS ANGELES ? California's high-stakes recall election has another court date Monday, when a federal judge is scheduled to hear arguments by the American Civil Liberties Union (search) that using outdated punch card machines (search) threatens to disenfranchise minorities.
"Democracy in California should not hang by a chad," said ACLU attorney Mark Rosenbaum, referring to the small pieces of paper that voters punch out of ballots that were blamed for problems in Florida in the 2000 presidential election.
The ACLU filed its lawsuit on Aug. 7 claiming voters in at least six counties would still be using the error-prone ballots if the vote is staged on Oct. 7, as planned. The suit seeks a delay until the next regular election in March 2004.
The hearing comes three days after a federal judge in San Jose considering a separate legal challenge ordered Monterey County not to send absentee ballots overseas as he considers postponing the election.
U.S. District Judge Jeremy Fogel said issues raised by two civil rights groups need to be sorted out to make sure minorities are not alienated as election clerks save money by opening fewer polling places and hiring fewer Spanish-speaking poll workers.
Fogel was expected to rule on the case by Aug. 29.
In Monterey and three other counties with low turnout, changes in election procedures need federal clearance. Leaders of the Mexican American Bar Association and La Raza Lawyers of California have called on President Bush to stop the election.
Over the weekend, the recall produced fresh cracks in party unity, with the state's second-ranking Democrat attacking Gov. Gray Davis' campaign and two leading Republicans bickering about their devotion to the GOP anti-tax mantra.
The division among Republicans arose when conservative candidate Bill Simon began running radio ads accusing actor Arnold Schwarzenegger (search) of being a liberal, and Schwarzenegger's spokesman fired back by comparing Simon to the Democratic incumbent.
Simon's ads chide Schwarzenegger after the actor's top economic adviser, billionaire Warren Buffett, said he believed California's famed Proposition 13 had kept the state's property taxes too low.
"Gray Davis tripled our car taxes, and now Arnold Schwarzenegger's team wants to triple our property taxes," Simon said in the ad.
Schwarzenegger spokesman Rob Stutzman accused Simon, who ran against Davis last year, of misrepresenting the actor's positions. Schwarzenegger is a staunch supporter of Prop 13, Stutzman said.
"Bill Simon (search) looks like he learned a lesson from Gray Davis last year and is putting distortions on the air," Stutzman said.
Democrats lurched into their own spat when Bustamante, the state's top-ranking Hispanic official, appeared on national television and charged that Davis aides were trying to sabotage the lieutenant governor's efforts to serve as a Democratic fallback in case the governor is recalled.
"If some of the governor's minions would stop trying to undercut my efforts, I think we could have a very coalesced opportunity for Democrats ... and we have a possibility of having a win-win position on the ballot," Bustamante said on NBC's "Meet the Press."
Bustamante has urged voters to reject the recall, but he has also offered himself as a candidate to replace Davis. The recall ballot will have two parts -- a yes-or-no vote on whether to recall Davis, and a list of 135 replacement candidates for voters to consider should Davis lose.
Bustamante's chief strategist, Richie Ross, said the Davis camp was pressuring Democratic donors and activists to withhold support from Bustamante.
Steve Smith, Davis' campaign manager, said his team was not trying to cripple the Bustamante effort.
"From the governor on down, I think we've been fairly complimentary of the lieutenant governor," Smith said.
The top two Democrats in state government have never been close friends, and relations were further strained when Bustamante joined the field of possible replacement candidates.
The campaigns of several contenders should pick up speed this week.
An adviser to Davis said Monday the governor is considering making a statewide address this week to appeal directly to Democrats and independents to stand by him.
Bustamante, who until now has done almost no public campaigning, plans to unveil his economic plan for the state Tuesday in Sacramento.
And former baseball commissioner Peter V. Ueberroth (search) is scheduled to begin his campaign this week with meetings around the state with political and business reporters.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Azmodeus
Seeker
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1827197 - 08/18/03 04:39 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thanks fer putting that up.... ...no comments though...
-------------------- "Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source. Lest we forget. "
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1827198 - 08/18/03 04:40 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Minorities are either too stupid to vote correctly or they are not, there's no in between. I'm sick of hearing this excuse. Either be a dumbfuck or learn to vote correctly.
-------------------- America....FUCK YEAH!!! Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Autonomous
MysteriousStranger
Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Innvertigo]
#1827214 - 08/18/03 04:43 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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If you're too stupid to understand how to vote, you shouldn't be trusted with that responsibility.
-------------------- "In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination." -- Mark Twain
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Autonomous]
#1827325 - 08/18/03 05:07 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Then can we all agree that if there's a person who can't vote (maybe with a small exception if it's their first time or mental disability)they're an idiot?
-------------------- America....FUCK YEAH!!! Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Innvertigo]
#1827329 - 08/18/03 05:08 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Sounds right.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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shakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Innvertigo]
#1827335 - 08/18/03 05:09 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yep. Why do you hate idiots so much? You hater!
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: shakta]
#1827374 - 08/18/03 05:19 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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I never said i hated them, that would be flamming and _______, _______ and _______ would get pissed off if i said i hated them. My solution is Education.
Here's my plan. When a person says that they are discriminated agaist because they don't understand the ballot, the nearest person needs to extend either arm and bitch-slap him or her.
-------------------- America....FUCK YEAH!!! Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Malachi
stereotype
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Innvertigo]
#1827558 - 08/18/03 06:22 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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yeah, fuck voting rights, those are so lame.
-------------------- The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side. - Paul Tillich
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Malachi
stereotype
Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Innvertigo]
#1827560 - 08/18/03 06:22 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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yeah, fuck voting rights, those are so lame....wtf? you're mad at minorities for wanting to vote?
-------------------- The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side. - Paul Tillich
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)
Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1827679 - 08/18/03 06:51 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote.
Man lds, that statement is just plain wrong. The problem has nothing to do with not knowing how to vote, it has to do with punch card machines having a high error rate regardless of who uses them.
There's two problems with this. The first is the obvious one that not everyone's vote gets counted. The second is that they are used predominately in minority districts, so a disproportionate number of minority votes won't get counted. While I understand why you wouldn't have a problem with them, don't say that because minorities are forced to use error prone machines that they are too stupid to vote.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Cornholio]
#1827759 - 08/18/03 07:15 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Seems you're not reading what I wrote. I'm not sure where you think I said that. I'll clear it up for you though. I think by this action, minorities are beling painted by a broad brush, saying in effect.... you're incapable of handling even this simple task. (well, perhaps oldies in Florida need the help ) I don't think treating minorities as if they are stupid is the right thing to do. Anyone, be they white, black, green, or sickly gray (like Alpo's friend Elvis ) who doesn't take the time to be sure they vote turns out correctly, probably shouldn't be voting to begin with. I double check mine before turning in the ballot. Don't you? Now, as I never said what you think I said, take that red frowny face and put it #@#$%%##@.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)
Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1827787 - 08/18/03 07:24 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cornholio said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote.
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: Seems you're not reading what I wrote. I'm not sure where you think I said that.
DUDE, YOU SAID IT IN THE TITLE OF THIS FUCKING THREAD!!!
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Malachi]
#1827824 - 08/18/03 07:35 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
yeah, fuck voting rights, those are so lame....wtf? you're mad at minorities for wanting to vote?
Where did i say i don't want minorities to vote?
-------------------- America....FUCK YEAH!!! Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Cornholio]
#1827842 - 08/18/03 07:42 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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I wrote "sounds as if THEY think..... not I think. "They" as in those who filed the suit.
You wrote... "While I understand why you wouldn't have a problem with them, don't say that because minorities are forced to use error prone machines that they are too stupid to vote."
I didn't say that they are too stupid to vote. It appears the other posters got it. I'm not sure why you didn't.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1827871 - 08/18/03 07:57 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fogel said issues raised by two civil rights groups need to be sorted out to make sure minorities are not disenfranchised as election clerks save money by opening fewer polling places and hiring fewer Spanish-speaking poll workers.
This was the only reference to minorities I found that has anything to do with their ability to vote. What do fewer polling places and fewer Spanish-speaking poll workers have to do with being stupid?
-------------------- "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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Malachi
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Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1827874 - 08/18/03 07:57 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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oh, well now that you fellows are all of a sudden champions of the minority voter - champions not of their right to vote, but defending their honor! how noble.
oh wait, your false indignation is a silly cover of your desire for minorities to use shitty old machines... cause they never vote for republican demagogues.. so you're still the bad guy, even if you aren't openly showcasing your contempt for the minority voter. racist in the closet example #223.
-------------------- The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side. - Paul Tillich
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)
Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1827877 - 08/18/03 07:59 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: I wrote "sounds as if THEY think..... not I think. "They" as in those who filed the suit.
But THEY didn't think that. THEY filed a suit because because some counties still have old punch card voting machines "that have error rates as high as 3 percent". What does this have to do with THEM thinking minorities are stupid? That was YOUR interpretation of their action. Racist! Edit: As a matter of fact, as silversoul pointed out, the article didn't even say that the punch cards were primarily in minority districts. I made that assumption based on your comment that this had something to do with THEM thinking minorities were stupid. All THEY wanted was a fair election!
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Edited by Cornholio (08/18/03 08:30 PM)
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Malachi
stereotype
Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Cornholio]
#1828135 - 08/18/03 09:38 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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nice
-------------------- The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side. - Paul Tillich
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GabbaDj
BTH
Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,681
Loc: By The Lake
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1828322 - 08/18/03 11:27 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Its not like that at all...
Its just like durring the presidential ellections... Those "chads" on them ballots made some votes not count and tens of thousands of votes were thrown out because of them.. That amount of votes could have turned the ellection around but they were simply thrown away and not counted...
Here in California many counties dont have the money yet to buy new voteing machines and these counties are mostly in ethnic areas where youll find up to a 98% hispanic or asian population...
This is why the ACLU says minorities may not be getting a fair deal and I agree.
-------------------- GabbaDj FAMM.ORG
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1828708 - 08/19/03 03:03 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Frankly, I'm amazed anyone of you could come away from that article with the impressions you did.
But hey, you know what they say about opinions.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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shakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Malachi]
#1828921 - 08/19/03 07:27 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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More ridiculous tripe from you again? Your racist argument is getting tiresome to say the least.
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1828981 - 08/19/03 08:13 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Wasn't the whole Florida election fuck up described as a confusing ballot? They gave the same ballot to some elementary students and they had no problem picking the correct candidate (albeit Disney characters)
I think many here are living in denial.
-------------------- America....FUCK YEAH!!! Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Cornholio]
#1829003 - 08/19/03 08:31 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cornholio said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: I wrote "sounds as if THEY think..... not I think. "They" as in those who filed the suit.
But THEY didn't think that. THEY filed a suit because because some counties still have old punch card voting machines "that have error rates as high as 3 percent". What does this have to do with THEM thinking minorities are stupid? That was YOUR interpretation of their action. Racist!
Edit: As a matter of fact, as silversoul pointed out, the article didn't even say that the punch cards were primarily in minority districts. I made that assumption based on your comment that this had something to do with THEM thinking minorities were stupid. All THEY wanted was a fair election!
LOS ANGELES ? California's high-stakes recall election has another court date Monday, when a federal judge is scheduled to hear arguments by the American Civil Liberties Union (search) that using outdated punch card machines (search) threatens to disenfranchise minorities .
So, being as the lawsuit was filed because "minorities" (writers word) may have problems, I'd say the implication is that the ACLU thinks the "minorities" are too stupid to use the machines. Now had they used the word... poor, or stupid, or ugly, you'd have a point. However as the word was used by the ACLU, you are once again, without a leg to stand on.
So try your indignant act and your little red frowny face on someone else.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1829026 - 08/19/03 08:42 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
LOS ANGELES — California's high-stakes recall election has another court date Monday, when a federal judge is scheduled to hear arguments by the American Civil Liberties Union (search) that using outdated punch card machines (search) threatens to disenfranchise minorities .
I know this is what you meant, but why would these machines disenfranchise ( i hate that word) minorities and not whites in the same district? Always making a Black and White issue will never win over those that think that there is no difference between blacks and whites.
-------------------- America....FUCK YEAH!!! Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Innvertigo]
#1829049 - 08/19/03 08:50 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Exactly. By using the word "minorities" in the filing, the implication is that it's only minorities who are unable to figure out how to vote, and how to check their ballots for errors.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1829060 - 08/19/03 08:55 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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I wonder why most libbies think that minorities aren't the same as the majority? Do you think they FEEL that the Chinese, Japanese and Arabic minorities are going to be disenfranchised as well? If not, why not? Where does the disenfranchising(sp) stop?
-------------------- America....FUCK YEAH!!! Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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shakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
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Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1829062 - 08/19/03 08:56 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Does it surprise you though? Organizations such as the ACLU and the Rainbow Coalition do more to supress minorities than help them. As long as they can convince them that they are the downtrodden and that the organization is fighting the evil white man they can control them. I think a lot of minorities are starting to realize this. Hopefully the days of Jesse Jackson running his unehtical shakedown police will be over soon. I do fault any company that falls prey to his tactics though. I would rather be labeled a racist and know the truth for myself, than pay money to a true racist like Jackson. The sooner minorities wake up, and take charge of their own destinies the better off they will all be.
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: shakta]
#1829075 - 08/19/03 09:03 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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sort of like Jesse's relationship with Nascar...he took hush money from them.
-------------------- America....FUCK YEAH!!! Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: shakta]
#1829280 - 08/19/03 10:47 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Doesn't surprise me at all.
Kill Whitey!
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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shakta
Infidel
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Innvertigo]
#1829405 - 08/19/03 11:31 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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I know he did. They were stupid enough to pay him. I would have told him to fuck off, and exposed him for the gangster he is. It isn't like pissing off anyone that agrees with him would hurt their fan base. The problem is, he would go after their sponsors. We all know the corporate world isn't going to stand up to him. It is cheaper for them to pay him off.
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GabbaDj
BTH
Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,681
Loc: By The Lake
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1829737 - 08/19/03 12:56 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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You need to look up what the REAL issue is here and the REAL reason the ACLU has filed suit...
#1 is the "chads".... Even if a person has voted correctly, a hanging chad on that vote card makes it invalid.
#2 Electronic voting stations are now mandatory in California and many voting areas have already upgraded their systems even though the deadline isnt until March. The areas that havnt upgraded their systems yet are typicly poor neighborhoods and here in California that means Minority neighborhoods.
With such a close race comming up and polls showing that a Hispanic Republican is in the lead and may actualy beat Arnold its VERY important to make sure that ALL votes count.
With the current system, tens of thousands of votes get thrown out, just because of the chads. It has nothing to do with people being confused, it has nothing to do with minorities being dumb.. Its all due to an ageing system that has failed time and time again.
-------------------- GabbaDj FAMM.ORG
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: GabbaDj]
#1829763 - 08/19/03 01:00 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yes, I could see where that dangling piece of paper could really stump some voters.
Spouse 1 - Hey hun, is that one of those chads I hear about? Spouse 2 - Don't touch it! It may explode!
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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GabbaDj
BTH
Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,681
Loc: By The Lake
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1829860 - 08/19/03 01:26 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Dont forget about the thousands of elderly and thousands of handycaped who may have a hard time seeing a hanging chad. Should their votes be thrown out just because?
Chads are the problem and their will be a major problem if their is a close race... Lets say 15000 votes are thrown away in minority areas and Cruise loses to Arnold by 10000 votes...
This will hurt California more than the circus surrounding the recall.
Whats worse than all of this is that first people must vote for a recall and their is still a chance that Grey Davis stays in office if that dont pass. If Davis remains Governor we will have just thrown away more than 70 million dollars for nothing from our already streatched budget. PLUS, if re-ellected Davis gets to tap into that budget to recoup his losses for campaining durring the recall which is at over 8 million already...
-------------------- GabbaDj FAMM.ORG
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: GabbaDj]
#1829926 - 08/19/03 01:47 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Look, we'll have to disagree.
But..... you guys should have never voted that asswipe in for a second term to begin with.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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DeepDish2
journeyman
Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 55
Last seen: 15 years, 2 days
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1829935 - 08/19/03 01:50 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think it is you who needs to reread the article. Click on the link again and take a careful look at how the title reads.
LOS ANGELES — A federal judge said Monday he will rule by midweek on an effort to postpone California's Oct. 7 election to recall Gov. Gray Davis (search) because some counties will use old punch-card voting machines (search).
Notice my title and yours differ in wording, in between (search). In your title the author is argueing that the ACLU is making a big deal out of the punch card machines because it is going to defranchise minorities, however, nowhere in the article does it say this. The actual ACLU arguement is "Most recently, the American Civil Liberties Union of Southern California says voters in six counties would still be using the error-prone ballots if the recall is staged on Oct. 7." This comes directly from the article, and contains no mention of minorities. In fact the only place minorities are mentioned in the article is in this statment, " Fogel said issues raised by two civil rights groups need to be sorted out to make sure minorities are not disenfranchised as election clerks save money by opening fewer polling places and hiring fewer Spanish-speaking poll workers." This statement is seperate from the ACLUs proposition to uptdate voting machines, and deals with the language barriers of voting and polling.
My question is, did you actually read the article or just the title? If you had read both, you should have titled the thread "Sounds as if HE thinks minorities are too stupid to vote. (He being the original writer of the article).
Innvertigo: "I wonder why most libbies think that minorities aren't the same as the majority?" The next time you feel the need to make a statement as ingnorant and stupid as this one, at least TRY to back it up with some relevant information.
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: GabbaDj]
#1829954 - 08/19/03 01:53 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dont forget about the thousands of elderly and thousands of handycaped who may have a hard time seeing a hanging chad. Should their votes be thrown out just because?
If they are handicapped in any way they can ask the pollsters for assistance, that's the law (ADA) and the pollster's job.
-------------------- America....FUCK YEAH!!! Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
Edited by Innvertigo (08/19/03 02:21 PM)
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: DeepDish2]
#1830373 - 08/19/03 03:25 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think you shouldn't assume people are that stupid. The article was copied and pasted on page one of this thread. My cut and paste was directly from the article. Why they would choose to alter it is a mystery to me. Write them and ask if you'd like. As shown in my previous paste this is how it read.... "LOS ANGELES ? California's high-stakes recall election has another court date Monday, when a federal judge is scheduled to hear arguments by the American Civil Liberties Union (search) that using outdated punch card machines (search) threatens to disenfranchise minorities." Read it as it originally was and you'll see "they" is quite correct. Like it or not, I merely pasted it.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)
Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Cornholio]
#1830762 - 08/19/03 05:08 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Let me try to summarize this argument to make progress:
Liberal: 3% of all voters who use punch card ballots leave a hanging chad, and since these punch cards are only being used in minority districts, it's especially unfair to minorities.
Conservative: Anyone who leaves a hanging chad is stupid.
Liberal: Whatever, but punch cards are only being used in minority disticts and that's especially unfair to minorities.
Conservative: You must think minorities are stupid then.
Just for the sake of argument, let's agree that people that leave hanging chads are stupid, and that 3% of the population doesn't deserve to have their votes counted. If every district in California used the punch cards, then it wouldn't be a racial issue. But since only the minority districts have their "stupid" votes eliminated, it's unfair to the people in those districts. Get it???
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shakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Cornholio]
#1830767 - 08/19/03 05:10 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Where is the evidence that this is happening in minority districts? I heard somewhere that the old machines will affect 44% of the voters.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Cornholio]
#1830810 - 08/19/03 05:22 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Worker 1 (chewing tabacco) - where do these machines go. Worker 2 (tugs on suspenders) - lets check the super secret minority area map. Worker 1 - yuhp.... that'll sure show them upity minorities. Worker 2 - afterwards, lets go drink some shine Worker 1 - hot damn, discrimination AND shine all in the same 2 hour work day Worker 2 - gotta love these here union jobs
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)
Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: shakta]
#1830987 - 08/19/03 06:35 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
shakta said: Where is the evidence that this is happening in minority districts? I heard somewhere that the old machines will affect 44% of the voters.
The old machines did affect 44% of the voters in the 2000 elections. California decertified these as "defective, obsolete, or otherwise unacceptable? and planned to phase them out by next regularly scheduled statewide elections. Since these elections are coming early, six counties (Los Angeles, Sacramento, San Diego, Santa Clara, Solano, and Mendocino) with a disproportionate number of minorities still have them (source), meaning a disproportionate number of minorities' votes won't get counted. It doesn't mean white votes in those counties won't have the same thing happen to them, it means that a disproportionate number of minority votes won't get counted. Make sense yet???
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Autonomous
MysteriousStranger
Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Cornholio]
#1831036 - 08/19/03 07:00 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cornholio said:... Since these elections are coming early, six counties (Los Angeles, Sacramento, San Diego, Santa Clara, Solano, and Mendocino) with a disproportionate number of minorities still have...it means that a disproportionate number of minority votes won't get counted.
Whites are not a majority in California. Based on the 2000 census numbers, whites (non-mixed race) in California now represent only 46.7 percent of the state's population. So which minorities are you referring to?
-------------------- "In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination." -- Mark Twain
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shakta
Infidel
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Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Autonomous]
#1831044 - 08/19/03 07:02 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Good point!
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monoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)
Registered: 09/06/02
Posts: 3,095
Loc: Jacksonville,FL
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: shakta]
#1831087 - 08/19/03 07:18 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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What point? It still doesn't change the anything having to do with the arguemnet.And It's quite clear that by minorities he meant it on a national level,as in mainly blacks,hispanics,and asians. And why is it that anybody that is mixed race is automatically considered "not white" and usually given the title of the other race?
-------------------- People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything... Douglas Adams
Edited by grandmasterfat (08/19/03 07:20 PM)
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shakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: monoamine]
#1831099 - 08/19/03 07:22 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think that is dishonest then. The election only effects those in CA. Why should they be called minorities if they aren't? Sure would be nice if eventually we could all just be people. I would not have had a problem with it, had they just said "Peoples votes aren't going to be counted and that is wrong." Instead it has to be yet another race issue.
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)
Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Autonomous]
#1831173 - 08/19/03 07:53 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Does anyone here know what a minority is??? Show me one dictionary definition where minority means "less than 50%". It's very clear who the minorities are in California, and its not white people. Edit: There are several different definitions of minority (see below). By some definitions whites are not a minority because whites are still the largest ethnic group; by other definitions it could mean less than 50%. I think it is clear which definition the ACLU was using.
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Edited by Cornholio (08/21/03 07:17 AM)
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)
Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: shakta]
#1831234 - 08/19/03 08:14 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
shakta said: I would not have had a problem with it, had they just said "Peoples votes aren't going to be counted and that is wrong." Instead it has to be yet another race issue.
THANK YOU shakta for making that excellent point! That's exactly what the original article that lds posted DID SAY! He had to refer to another article by the ACLU when he realized his bashing of minorities had nothing to do with the original article. (I'm giving you another red angry face lds, since those seem to annoy you ) But since he then changed the argument to attack the ACLU's position, and ignored the position of his original article, I still defend it by saying that minorities are disproportionately represented in the counties that are using the defective ballots, and therefore are having their votes disproportionately cut. (I'm using the political definition of minority, not the one that got us sidetracked). And you're right, it shouldn't have anything to do with minorities. But since this happens to affect counties with a disproportionately large number of minorities, that means that a disproportionately high number of minority votes will not be counted.
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Edited by Cornholio (08/19/03 08:21 PM)
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Autonomous
MysteriousStranger
Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Cornholio]
#1831248 - 08/19/03 08:17 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cornholio said: Does anyone here know what a minority is??? Show me one dictionary definition where minority means "less than 50%". It's very clear who the minorities are in California, and its not white people.
minority. 1. the lesser part or smaller number; less than half of a total: opposed to majority. (source: Webster's Unabridged Dictionary, 2nd Edition)
-------------------- "In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination." -- Mark Twain
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GabbaDj
BTH
Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,681
Loc: By The Lake
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Cornholio]
#1831273 - 08/19/03 08:26 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Whites are not a majority in California. Based on the 2000 census numbers, whites (non-mixed race) in California now represent only 46.7 percent of the state's population. So which minorities are you referring to?
Quote:
Does anyone here know what a minority is???
Show me one dictionary definition where minority means "less than 50%". It's very clear who the minorities are in California, and its not white people.
To all those who have never lived in California you have NO clue... When I drive to my down town I am thrown into another world, signs are NOT writen in english and usualy I am the ONLY white guy around....
Come to California some time and youll see. Their are towns and their are Cities. The majority of towns people are white which makes up a LARGE number of the population but go to ANY City and its hard to find the white people..
If youve never lived in a major city whith ghettos and urban ethnic areas or if your a non resident of California who watches the news you should stay out of this thread cuz you just have NO fucking clue.
-------------------- GabbaDj FAMM.ORG
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)
Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Autonomous]
#1831290 - 08/19/03 08:31 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Interesting. I checked my own Webster's dictionary before I made the post, and I checked Webster's online, and neither had that definition.
Regardless, you are guilty of using a Red Herring. We all know what the ACLU meant by minority.
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Autonomous
MysteriousStranger
Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: GabbaDj]
#1831330 - 08/19/03 08:43 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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I was born in Los Angeles, have spent over 45 years in the state and watched the quality of life plummet under the Democrats. Businesses have left, taxes have gone up (especially 'sin' taxes), propositions have been nullified by government employees through legal maneuvers, and the Governor has refused to represent the people of the state by standing up to the Feds over the medical marijuana issue. It is time for a serious house-cleaning.
Here's a question for you, Did you know that tax payers dollars are being used to fund anti-recall efforts?
-------------------- "In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination." -- Mark Twain
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Autonomous
MysteriousStranger
Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Cornholio]
#1831345 - 08/19/03 08:47 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cornholio said: Regardless, you are guilty of using a Red Herring.
You are guilty of the typical liberal tactic of re-definition of terms to suit your purposes.
Quote:
We all know what the ACLU meant by minority.
Then the ACLU is also guilty of the typical liberal tactic of re-definition of terms to suit their purposes. The fact remains that there is no racial majority in California - there are only minorities. Your ignorance of the situation does not advance your arguments.
-------------------- "In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination." -- Mark Twain
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shakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Cornholio]
#1831375 - 08/19/03 08:59 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cornholio said: Interesting. I checked my own Webster's dictionary before I made the post, and I checked Webster's online, and neither had that definition. Regardless, you are guilty of using a Red Herring. We all know what the ACLU meant by minority.
I don't think it is a red herring at all. So you are saying that even if the minorities outweigh the majority they are still minorities? WTF? Drive an hour south and you will understand that the minorities aren't minorities everywhere anymore. :rant: I am just sick of all this racial bullshit. This is off topic I know. I read the same article that stated minorities were being singled out basically. That is the basis for the argument anyway. It is bullshit, and the lawyer uses it to make everyone think they are racists if they don't agree with him. He is using it as a red herring. I am not going to overgeneralize here, but a LOT of liberals tend to play the race card when it has no place. The Dems in Texas are doing it, and their argument makes no sense at all. We are all people. None of us deserve special treatment. No one alive today has owned slaves and no one has stolen land from the native americans. I don't owe anyone shit for something my ancestors MAY have done. If you are a 'disenfranchised minority', quit feeling sorry for yourself, get off your ass, get a fucking job, and buy the crap you want. I am not saying there is no racism in America, or that very bad things haven't happened in the past. I am saying that as long as a group of people use something as an excuse, they will never overcome. This poor me mentality has infected our entire population. Note to everyone. The world doesn't owe you shit! If you want to be successful you have to work for it. So, you may have a disadvantage or two. Suck it up and you will be better for it. I could whine and complain about plenty of stuff. My parents got divorced when I was 3. My Dad has been an addict my whole life. I had to overcome a major substance abuse problem. My family wasn't that well off. Big fucking deal. Everyone has shit that they have to overcome. Winners figure out a way to do it, while losers sit and bitch about it. :end rant:
Edited by shakta (08/19/03 09:12 PM)
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Autonomous
MysteriousStranger
Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: shakta]
#1831387 - 08/19/03 09:05 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Exactly!
-------------------- "In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination." -- Mark Twain
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)
Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Autonomous]
#1831409 - 08/19/03 09:12 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Let me give you the current Webster definition of minority, since your Webster's dictionary is different from my Webster's dictionary: mi?nor?i?ty Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural -ties Usage: often attributive Date: 1547 1 a : the period before attainment of majority b : the state of being a legal minor 2 : the smaller in number of two groups constituting a whole; specifically : a group having less than the number of votes necessary for control 3 a : a part of a population differing from others in some characteristics and often subjected to differential treatment b : a member of a minority group So I'm not "re-defining" the term. But even if the ACLU did redefine minority, it's still a Red Herring, because we know what they meant. And even if you still disagree, then why was lds making all of the arguments that he was making? His arguments all become moot if your definition of minority is the one that should appy here. I've lived in California for 28 years, and the term minority has never been used to describe the white population, except by whites who are upset about the fact that they no longer represent 50% of the population.
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shakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
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Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Cornholio]
#1831422 - 08/19/03 09:15 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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I am fat, and want special treatment because I am different. Everyone here must send me five bucks each or you are racists fucks!
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)
Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: shakta]
#1831425 - 08/19/03 09:17 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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If everyone here except fat people was entitled to five bucks, you would be exactly right.
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Autonomous
MysteriousStranger
Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Cornholio]
#1831436 - 08/19/03 09:19 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Let's see, first you posted...
Quote:
Cornholio said: Does anyone here know what a minority is???
Show me one dictionary definition where minority means "less than 50%".
Then you posted...
Quote:
2 : the smaller in number of two groups constituting a whole; specifically : a group having less than the number of votes necessary for control
It seems that the second quote taken from your post could very well mean "less than 50%" in electoral politics.
-------------------- "In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination." -- Mark Twain
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shakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Cornholio]
#1831440 - 08/19/03 09:19 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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See, that is the problem with this thinking. No one is entitled to anything. You are not guaranteed to be successful. You have to WORK for it, not get it handed to you.
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)
Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: shakta]
#1831450 - 08/19/03 09:23 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
shakta said: See, that is the problem with this thinking. No one is entitled to anything.
Are you saying minorities (not counting white people, since you're all playing stupid), are not entitled to fair voting machines like the other voters get? I disagree. (We're talking about the voting machines here, not the other things you mentioned)
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Edited by Cornholio (08/19/03 09:26 PM)
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Autonomous
MysteriousStranger
Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Cornholio]
#1831475 - 08/19/03 09:30 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cornholio said: I've lived in California for 28 years, and the term minority has never been used to describe the white population, except by whites who are upset about the fact that they no longer represent 50% of the population.
Apparently you aren't keeping up on current events, because it was reported after the 2000 census that whites had become a minority in the state. That's right, Cornholio, things have changed, they are not static, for the majority of your 28 years the situation was different but the year is now 2003. Contrary to your PC brain washing, people are upset because Gray Davis has fucked up the 'Golden State.' The issue of chads and so-called minority voting is a political game designed to keep power in the hands of those who have run California into the ground. It appeals to emotionalism, not reason, it is yet ANOTHER attempt by those in power to keep and increase their power.
-------------------- "In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination." -- Mark Twain
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shakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Cornholio]
#1831478 - 08/19/03 09:31 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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I went off on a tangent. Everyone is entitled to fair voting machines. You know what I am talking about though. The point is they are using the minorities to try to stop the election, when they should have just said that the election should be postponed until fair machines can be installed everywhere.
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)
Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: shakta]
#1831920 - 08/20/03 12:01 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'll go back to the point this post got way off topic:
Cornholio said: Liberal: 3% of all voters who use punch card ballots leave a hanging chad, and since these punch cards are only being used in minority districts, it's especially unfair to minorities.
Conservative: Anyone who leaves a hanging chad is stupid.
Liberal: Whatever, but punch cards are only being used in minority disticts and that's especially unfair to minorities.
Conservative: You must think minorities are stupid then.
Just for the sake of argument, let's agree that people that leave hanging chads are stupid, and that 3% of the population doesn't deserve to have their votes counted. If every district in California used the punch cards, then it wouldn't be a racial issue. But since only the minority districts have their "stupid" votes eliminated, it's unfair to the people in those districts. Get it???
Autonomous said: Whites are not a majority in California. Based on the 2000 census numbers, whites (non-mixed race) in California now represent only 46.7 percent of the state's population. So which minorities are you referring to?
Cornholio SHOULD HAVE said: I'm referring to the voters (white, black, red, or whatever race) whose numbers are disproportionally high in those counties, because their votes will be disproportionally not counted.
NOW do you get it???
shakta, I don't think you and I are disagreeing about anything here. We both believe that everyone's vote should count, regardless of race. But if this unfairness were evenly distributed across all of California, then most people probably wouldn't see it as nearly as big a deal as if it were happening in counties with disproportionate representation. I don't know what race you are, but if you found out that these machines were only being used in counties where your race was disproportionally high, wouldn't you be just a little more upset? Even if your answer is "no", can you at least understand why certain people might feel that way?
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shakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Cornholio]
#1831944 - 08/20/03 12:08 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Sure I can understand that. Why shouldn't the ACLU just say Americans civil rights are being affected?
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)
Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: shakta]
#1831968 - 08/20/03 12:17 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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They should, and they did. But people aren't as worried about it when everyone's rights are equally negatively affected. Since that wasn't the case, people were a lot more concerned, and the race impact was a real factor.
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Edited by Cornholio (08/20/03 02:05 AM)
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Cornholio]
#1832332 - 08/20/03 03:25 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cornholio said: Does anyone here know what a minority is??? Show me one dictionary definition where minority means "less than 50%". It's very clear who the minorities are in California, and its not white people.
Here ya go happy. #2 is what you asked for.
Main Entry: mi?nor?i?ty Pronunciation: m&-'nor-&-tE, mI-, -'n?r- Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural -ties Usage: often attributive Date: 1547 1 a : the period before attainment of majority b : the state of being a legal minor 2 : the smaller in number of two groups constituting a whole; specifically : a group having less than the number of votes necessary for control 3 a : a part of a population differing from others in some characteristics and often subjected to differential treatment b : a member of a minority group
Sorry, didn't realize someone had beat me to it. And no, the red faces don't annoy me, I found it silly.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: shakta]
#1832337 - 08/20/03 03:29 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Nice rant. Accurate and not too long.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1835195 - 08/20/03 08:36 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)
Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1835289 - 08/20/03 08:53 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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Haha! I guess they followed the lead of the US Supreme Court in the presidential election. Judgement: Timeliness trumps accuracy.
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Autonomous
MysteriousStranger
Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Cornholio]
#1835545 - 08/20/03 10:09 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hardly, accuracy in following the law, the rules in place at the time, is more important than placating political office holders and pandering to those flashing the race card.
-------------------- "In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination." -- Mark Twain
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)
Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Autonomous]
#1835679 - 08/20/03 10:50 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Autonomous said: Hardly, accuracy in following the law, the rules in place at the time, is more important than placating political office holders and pandering to those flashing the race card.
I assumed a proper count of the ballots was the law, but maybe I have too much faith in the system.
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Autonomous
MysteriousStranger
Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Cornholio]
#1835813 - 08/20/03 11:38 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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There are timetables in place before the elections. This is the law, this does not preclude proper tabulation of the ballots. Again, the whole argument about chads and alleged minority disenfranchisement is nothing but a ploy designed to thwart the will of the people and maintain the political status quo.
EVERY single election I have voted in for 27 years has used the punch card ballots and has never been a problem. Anyone too stupid to properly punch a ballot should not be trusted with the responsibility of voting. It's easier than wiping your own ass! If you think people with mental capacity of grape fruits should be deciding your fate through the ballot box, then you should probably check yourself into a facility where you can be supervised and get the proper care needed to run your life.
-------------------- "In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination." -- Mark Twain
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)
Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Autonomous]
#1835840 - 08/20/03 11:55 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Autonomous said: Again, the whole argument about chads and alleged minority disenfranchisement is nothing but a ploy designed to thwart the will of the people and maintain the political status quo.
If that's indeed true, then I'll agree with you. I don't know how long it would take to get the new ballots in place, but I suspect it couldn't be that long. If it would be a long time, then I'd change my opinion based on that information.
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Malachi
stereotype
Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Autonomous]
#1835845 - 08/20/03 11:56 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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come on LDS, just be honest. it's quite clear that you have no tolerance for people who vote differently than you do. you're an ass about it. you make all kinds of ad hominem attacks. ergo, since virtually all minorities vote opposite of you, it is in fact YOU who thinks that minorities are too stupid to vote.
-------------------- The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side. - Paul Tillich
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Malachi
stereotype
Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Autonomous]
#1835852 - 08/20/03 11:58 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Autonomous said: There are timetables in place before the elections. This is the law, this does not preclude proper tabulation of the ballots. Again, the whole argument about chads and alleged minority disenfranchisement is nothing but a ploy designed to thwart the will of the people and maintain the political status quo.
EVERY single election I have voted in for 27 years has used the punch card ballots and has never been a problem. Anyone too stupid to properly punch a ballot should not be trusted with the responsibility of voting. It's easier than wiping your own ass! If you think people with mental capacity of grape fruits should be deciding your fate through the ballot box, then you should probably check yourself into a facility where you can be supervised and get the proper care needed to run your life.
well, I think that people who don't understand simple words like "democracy" ought to not be allowed to vote. truly, your views are a throwback to 1950's deep south mentality.
-------------------- The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side. - Paul Tillich
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Malachi]
#1836211 - 08/21/03 03:44 AM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Malachi said: come on LDS, just be honest. it's quite clear that you have no tolerance for people who vote differently than you do.
Wrong yet again. (don't you get tired of that?) I have no tolerance for those who DON"T vote and then whine about the results, and no tolerance for those who don't take the time to do a little homework.
Quote:
you're an ass about it. you make all kinds of ad hominem attacks.
As a poster here of the left leaning persuasion recently wrote... do the words pot, kettle, and black ring a bell for you?
Quote:
ergo, since virtually all minorities vote opposite of you, it is in fact YOU who thinks that minorities are too stupid to vote.
Sorry, not all of us are the racists that you are, and that you believe us to be.
It's so very telling that you feel those who don't believe as you do are either racist or stupid.
Grow up lil' boy. You'll be a happier person as a result.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Anonymous
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Autonomous]
#1836261 - 08/21/03 05:00 AM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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Great posts. The only thing different I would have done was the semantic argument. I don't have extended conversations with people who lack the ability to use reason and english at the same time.
Someone mentioned poll workers helping the elderly and infirm. This is quite true. I know this because I am a poll worker. No one is really disenfranchised of their vote because if the punch cards are used properly and recorded properly every vote counts.
BEFORE the 2000 election we had signs up at the poll booths informing voters to check their ballots closely to look for chad fuck-ups. If they can't handle that, tough.
Personally I hate the new system as it REALLY invites abuse. In fact, I have thought since the outset that was a ploy by the Republicans to capture the 2004 presidential election. With a chad you have a piece of physical evidence, with the electronic system you only have electrons.
Has anyone heard of computer tampering?
The voting system is so rife with fraud that many do not vote. As a poll worker I heard many comments this last election that indicated we will lose more voters over this issue.
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Cornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)
Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 4 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: ]
#1836281 - 08/21/03 05:37 AM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr_Mushrooms said: The only thing different I would have done was the semantic argument. I don't have extended conversations with people who lack the ability to use reason and english at the same time.
Agreed; that was quite a pointless diversion.
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shakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Cornholio]
#1836405 - 08/21/03 07:10 AM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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Show me a thread were we don't go on a pointless diversion.
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: ]
#1836459 - 08/21/03 07:54 AM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Someone mentioned poll workers helping the elderly and infirm. This is quite true. I know this because I am a poll worker. No one is really disenfranchised of their vote because if the punch cards are used properly and recorded properly every vote counts.
it's covered under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). Same goes for ANY public building and services.
-------------------- America....FUCK YEAH!!! Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Autonomous
MysteriousStranger
Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Malachi]
#1838833 - 08/21/03 08:40 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Malachi said: well, I think that people who don't understand simple words like "democracy" ought to not be allowed to vote.
Then we're in agreement.
Quote:
truly, your views are a throwback to 1950's deep south mentality.
Try a rational argument instead of juvenile PC mud-slinging.
-------------------- "In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination." -- Mark Twain
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Autonomous
MysteriousStranger
Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: ]
#1838838 - 08/21/03 08:44 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr_Mushrooms said: ... With a chad you have a piece of physical evidence, with the electronic system you only have electrons.
Has anyone heard of computer tampering?
An excellent point, one that too many people ignore.
Oh, thanks for the Mr_Mushrooms.
-------------------- "In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination." -- Mark Twain
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Malachi
stereotype
Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1839155 - 08/21/03 10:32 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
Malachi said: come on LDS, just be honest. it's quite clear that you have no tolerance for people who vote differently than you do.
Wrong yet again. (don't you get tired of that?) I have no tolerance for those who DON"T vote and then whine about the results, and no tolerance for those who don't take the time to do a little homework.
Quote:
you're an ass about it. you make all kinds of ad hominem attacks.
As a poster here of the left leaning persuasion recently wrote... do the words pot, kettle, and black ring a bell for you?
Quote:
ergo, since virtually all minorities vote opposite of you, it is in fact YOU who thinks that minorities are too stupid to vote.
Sorry, not all of us are the racists that you are, and that you believe us to be.
It's so very telling that you feel those who don't believe as you do are either racist or stupid.
Grow up lil' boy. You'll be a happier person as a result.
right. for you a "little homework" = being a damn con. are you denying that you believe that the republican party is the rational choice at the ends of the "homework"? that's be some shameless ducking.... it just so happens that your party is supported exclusively by whites. so either being a con isn't so obviously the choice after a "little homework" or virtually all minorities aren't doing said "homework".
of course, neither are true, but I'm not expecting you to overcome your debilitating condition to realize it.
-------------------- The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side. - Paul Tillich
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vot [Re: Malachi]
#1839220 - 08/21/03 11:10 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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Malachi, your attempts to turn this thread into a flamefest are not appreciated. Address the arguments, not your assumptions about the personality of those who hold viewpoints different from your own. And a hint to those who feel impelled to respond in kind to such comments -- I suggest the use of the Private Message function. I do realize that issues of substance are discussed here, and that because of an individual's passionate support for his particular viewpoint, the temptation to use intemperate language in a reply is at times strong. I strongly suggest such temptations be resisted. Take this post as some friendly advice rather than an official warning -- the official warning has already been made in Rono's sticky post. If you are unsure that I am referring to you in particular, it is probably safe to assume that I am. This thread will be relocked if it gets out of hand again. Bans are a real possibility. Tread lightly. pinky
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Edited by pinksharkmark (08/22/03 06:31 AM)
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1929579 - 09/18/03 03:31 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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Seem's punch cards aren't as bad as some would make it seem......
According to the California ACLU, punch-card machines, still used in six counties, have an error rate of 2.5 percent, meaning as many as 40,000 votes could be invalidated.
Optical scanners, for example, have an error rate of 2.3 percent, and could invalidate as many as 36,000 votes in the counties where they are used.
Computer touch screens with an error rate of 3 percent could leave 48,000 votes uncounted, and 'Datavote,' a different type of punch-card system used in 20 counties, has an error rate of more than 3 percent ? putting as many as 51,200 votes at risk.
Link
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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shakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1929640 - 09/18/03 03:46 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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It is BS. They were good enough to elect Davis to begin with, and they are good enough to get rid of him.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: shakta]
#1929660 - 09/18/03 03:52 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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This is interesting....
ACLU Fails to Address Questions About Anti-recall Lawsuit Eric Leonard, NewsMax.com Thursday, Sept. 18, 2003 LOS ANGELES ? American Civil Liberties Union has not responded to questions raised about the information and reasoning used in a lawsuit that has halted California's recall election, which had been scheduled for Oct. 7. The suit alleged possible violations of the equal-protection clause of the U.S. Constitution because, ACLU claimed, minority voters would be disenfranchised.
The lawsuit said counties with high minority populations that use punch-card voting machines have a higher voting "error" rate and suggested the errors were somehow connected with minority voters "unfamiliarity with technology."
But:
State election information reveals the two California counties with the highest incidents of so-called voter error have predominantly white residents.
A voting equipment company paid for a study used to bolster ACLU?s argument.
The lawsuit misrepresents election errors, election officials said. None of these issues was raised as an argument against ACLU's claims in court.
Two California counties, Lake and Colusa, recorded the highest error rates in the state during the November 2000 presidential election. Both counties have mostly white voters, and only one of the counties uses punch-card technology.
Much of ACLU?s case for demanding newer voting machines was based on a 2001 study by the University of California at Berkeley that found higher error rates in counties that used punch-cards and other low-tech equipment to count votes.
The study was partially funded by Sequoia Voting Systems, a national company that sells and installs computerized voting equipment.
?The UC-Berkeley study was something that we assisted with to help them develop the data, and provided some funding to help put the raw data together,? said Sequoia spokesman Alfie Charles.
The company?s sponsorship had no impact on the findings, Charles said.
Additionally, registrars of voters in California and other experts say ACLU?s interpretation of the Berkeley study mischaracterizes what consistutes a voting error.
?I think that there?s been a lot of talk about what an error rate is in an election, and it?s really not an error rate,? Los Angeles County Registrar of Voters Connie McCormack told the county?s Board of Supervisors on Tuesday.
Experts say there are only two possible errors when using punch-card machines: over votes, when a voter selects more than one candidate, and under votes, when a voter does not choose any of the options.
Either action could be accidental, or more likely, an intentional choice, they say.
?The supposition is if people skip a race and don?t vote for that, that that?s an error, that?s part of the court pleadings,? McCormack said.
ACLU's Condescending Attitude Toward Non-whites
ACLU has suggested the "errors" were the unexplainable result of minorities having some sort of difficulty operating voting equipment.
Experts on voting equipment said part of the reason for punch cards having twice the "error rate" as electronic voting machines was simply the inability of electronic machines to register one of the two possible errors on a punch-card ballot.
Although ACLU says the electronic voting machines are "twice as accurate," it's really only because they allow half the possible errors, they said.
ACLU's Los Angeles office did not respond to calls for comment over two days.
Former ACLU attorney Dan Tokagi, who helped draft the initial lawsuit, dismissed each of the concerns as "illegitimate." He said the quality of the Berkeley study was "above reproach."
On Monday, a three-judge panel from the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals sided with ACLU and ordered the recall election delayed until six counties upgrade punch-card voting machines with more modern equipment.
California's secretary of state and supporters of the recall have challenged the decision. They say they will appeal to the United States Supreme Court if necessary.
Link
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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shakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1930473 - 09/18/03 08:37 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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Damn, so they are relying on a study Berkeley did that a voting machine company paid for. "Above reproach" my ass.
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afoaf
CEO DBK?
Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#1930475 - 09/18/03 08:37 PM (20 years, 6 months ago) |
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no matter what, I always find it troubling when interested parties are found to be the funders of research that they wind up using to support their causes.
even if berkely did a good job on the study...it's still got the taint.
-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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