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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 15 years, 14 days
Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Autonomous]
    #1835852 - 08/20/03 11:58 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Autonomous said:
There are timetables in place before the elections. This is the law, this does not preclude proper tabulation of the ballots. Again, the whole argument about chads and alleged minority disenfranchisement is nothing but a ploy designed to thwart the will of the people and maintain the political status quo.

EVERY single election I have voted in for 27 years has used the punch card ballots and has never been a problem. Anyone too stupid to properly punch a ballot should not be trusted with the responsibility of voting. It's easier than wiping your own ass! If you think people with mental capacity of grape fruits should be deciding your fate through the ballot box, then you should probably check yourself into a facility where you can be supervised and get the proper care needed to run your life.




well, I think that people who don't understand simple words like "democracy" ought to not be allowed to vote. truly, your views are a throwback to 1950's deep south mentality.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Malachi]
    #1836211 - 08/21/03 03:44 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Malachi said:
come on LDS, just be honest. it's quite clear that you have no tolerance for people who vote differently than you do.



Wrong yet again. (don't you get tired of that?) I have no tolerance for those who DON"T vote and then whine about the results, and no tolerance for those who don't take the time to do a little homework.


Quote:

you're an ass about it. you make all kinds of ad hominem attacks.


As a poster here of the left leaning persuasion recently wrote... do the words pot, kettle, and black ring a bell for you?


Quote:

ergo, since virtually all minorities vote opposite of you, it is in fact YOU who thinks that minorities are too stupid to vote.



Sorry, not all of us are the racists that you are, and that you believe us to be.


It's so very telling that you feel those who don't believe as you do are either racist or stupid.

Grow up lil' boy. You'll be a happier person as a result.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Anonymous

Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Autonomous]
    #1836261 - 08/21/03 05:00 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

:thumbup:

Great posts.  The only thing different I would have done was the semantic argument.  I don't have extended conversations with people who lack the ability to use reason and english at the same time.

Someone mentioned poll workers helping the elderly and infirm.  This is quite true.  I know this because I am a poll worker.  No one is really disenfranchised of their vote because if the punch cards are used properly and recorded properly every vote counts.

BEFORE the 2000 election we had signs up at the poll booths informing voters to check their ballots closely to look for chad fuck-ups.  If they can't handle that, tough.

Personally I hate the new system as it REALLY invites abuse.  In fact, I have thought since the outset that was a ploy by the Republicans to capture the 2004 presidential election.  With a chad you have a piece of physical evidence, with the electronic system you only have electrons.

Has anyone heard of computer tampering?

The voting system is so rife with fraud that many do not vote.  As a poll worker I heard many comments this last election that indicated we will lose more voters over this issue. 

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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: ]
    #1836281 - 08/21/03 05:37 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Mr_Mushrooms said:
The only thing different I would have done was the semantic argument.  I don't have extended conversations with people who lack the ability to use reason and english at the same time.


Agreed; that was quite a pointless diversion.  :thumbup: 


--------------------

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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 20 years, 29 days
Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Cornholio]
    #1836405 - 08/21/03 07:10 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Show me a thread were we don't go on a pointless diversion. :smile:

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: ]
    #1836459 - 08/21/03 07:54 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Someone mentioned poll workers helping the elderly and infirm. This is quite true. I know this because I am a poll worker. No one is really disenfranchised of their vote because if the punch cards are used properly and recorded properly every vote counts.




it's covered under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). Same goes for ANY public building and services.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: Malachi]
    #1838833 - 08/21/03 08:40 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Malachi said:
well, I think that people who don't understand simple words like "democracy" ought to not be allowed to vote.



Then we're in agreement.

Quote:

truly, your views are a throwback to 1950's deep south mentality.



Try a rational argument instead of juvenile PC mud-slinging.


--------------------
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain

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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: ]
    #1838838 - 08/21/03 08:44 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Mr_Mushrooms said:
... With a chad you have a piece of physical evidence, with the electronic system you only have electrons.

Has anyone heard of computer tampering?



An excellent point, one that too many people ignore.

Oh, thanks for the :thumbup: Mr_Mushrooms. 


--------------------
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain

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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 15 years, 14 days
Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1839155 - 08/21/03 10:32 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Malachi said:
come on LDS, just be honest. it's quite clear that you have no tolerance for people who vote differently than you do.



Wrong yet again. (don't you get tired of that?) I have no tolerance for those who DON"T vote and then whine about the results, and no tolerance for those who don't take the time to do a little homework.


Quote:

you're an ass about it. you make all kinds of ad hominem attacks.


As a poster here of the left leaning persuasion recently wrote... do the words pot, kettle, and black ring a bell for you?


Quote:

ergo, since virtually all minorities vote opposite of you, it is in fact YOU who thinks that minorities are too stupid to vote.



Sorry, not all of us are the racists that you are, and that you believe us to be.


It's so very telling that you feel those who don't believe as you do are either racist or stupid.

Grow up lil' boy. You'll be a happier person as a result.




right. for you a "little homework" = being a damn con. are you denying that you believe that the republican party is the rational choice at the ends of the "homework"? that's be some shameless ducking.... it just so happens that your party is supported exclusively by whites. so either being a con isn't so obviously the choice after a "little homework" or virtually all minorities aren't doing said "homework".

of course, neither are true, but I'm not expecting you to overcome your debilitating condition to realize it.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vot [Re: Malachi]
    #1839220 - 08/21/03 11:10 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Malachi, your attempts to turn this thread into a flamefest are not appreciated. Address the arguments, not your assumptions about the personality of those who hold viewpoints different from your own.

And a hint to those who feel impelled to respond in kind to such comments -- I suggest the use of the Private Message function.

I do realize that issues of substance are discussed here, and that because of an individual's passionate support for his particular viewpoint, the temptation to use intemperate language in a reply is at times strong. I strongly suggest such temptations be resisted.

Take this post as some friendly advice rather than an official warning -- the official warning has already been made in Rono's sticky post. If you are unsure that I am referring to you in particular, it is probably safe to assume that I am.

This thread will be relocked if it gets out of hand again. Bans are a real possibility.

Tread lightly.

pinky


--------------------

Edited by pinksharkmark (08/22/03 06:31 AM)

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1929579 - 09/18/03 03:31 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Seem's punch cards aren't as bad as some would make it seem......


According to the California ACLU, punch-card machines, still used in six counties, have an error rate of 2.5 percent, meaning as many as 40,000 votes could be invalidated.

Optical scanners, for example, have an error rate of 2.3 percent, and could invalidate as many as 36,000 votes in the counties where they are used.

Computer touch screens with an error rate of 3 percent could leave 48,000 votes uncounted, and 'Datavote,' a different type of punch-card system used in 20 counties, has an error rate of more than 3 percent ? putting as many as 51,200 votes at risk.


Link


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 20 years, 29 days
Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1929640 - 09/18/03 03:46 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

It is BS. They were good enough to elect Davis to begin with, and they are good enough to get rid of him.

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: shakta]
    #1929660 - 09/18/03 03:52 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

This is interesting....

ACLU Fails to Address Questions About Anti-recall Lawsuit
Eric Leonard, NewsMax.com
Thursday, Sept. 18, 2003
LOS ANGELES ? American Civil Liberties Union has not responded to questions raised about the information and reasoning used in a lawsuit that has halted California's recall election, which had been scheduled for Oct. 7.
The suit alleged possible violations of the equal-protection clause of the U.S. Constitution because, ACLU claimed, minority voters would be disenfranchised.

The lawsuit said counties with high minority populations that use punch-card voting machines have a higher voting "error" rate and suggested the errors were somehow connected with minority voters "unfamiliarity with technology."

But:


State election information reveals the two California counties with the highest incidents of so-called voter error have predominantly white residents.

A voting equipment company paid for a study used to bolster ACLU?s argument.

The lawsuit misrepresents election errors, election officials said.
None of these issues was raised as an argument against ACLU's claims in court.

Two California counties, Lake and Colusa, recorded the highest error rates in the state during the November 2000 presidential election. Both counties have mostly white voters, and only one of the counties uses punch-card technology.

Much of ACLU?s case for demanding newer voting machines was based on a 2001 study by the University of California at Berkeley that found higher error rates in counties that used punch-cards and other low-tech equipment to count votes.

The study was partially funded by Sequoia Voting Systems, a national company that sells and installs computerized voting equipment.

?The UC-Berkeley study was something that we assisted with to help them develop the data, and provided some funding to help put the raw data together,? said Sequoia spokesman Alfie Charles.

The company?s sponsorship had no impact on the findings, Charles said.

Additionally, registrars of voters in California and other experts say ACLU?s interpretation of the Berkeley study mischaracterizes what consistutes a voting error.

?I think that there?s been a lot of talk about what an error rate is in an election, and it?s really not an error rate,? Los Angeles County Registrar of Voters Connie McCormack told the county?s Board of Supervisors on Tuesday.

Experts say there are only two possible errors when using punch-card machines: over votes, when a voter selects more than one candidate, and under votes, when a voter does not choose any of the options.

Either action could be accidental, or more likely, an intentional choice, they say.

?The supposition is if people skip a race and don?t vote for that, that that?s an error, that?s part of the court pleadings,? McCormack said.

ACLU's Condescending Attitude Toward Non-whites

ACLU has suggested the "errors" were the unexplainable result of minorities having some sort of difficulty operating voting equipment.

Experts on voting equipment said part of the reason for punch cards having twice the "error rate" as electronic voting machines was simply the inability of electronic machines to register one of the two possible errors on a punch-card ballot.

Although ACLU says the electronic voting machines are "twice as accurate," it's really only because they allow half the possible errors, they said.

ACLU's Los Angeles office did not respond to calls for comment over two days.

Former ACLU attorney Dan Tokagi, who helped draft the initial lawsuit, dismissed each of the concerns as "illegitimate." He said the quality of the Berkeley study was "above reproach."

On Monday, a three-judge panel from the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals sided with ACLU and ordered the recall election delayed until six counties upgrade punch-card voting machines with more modern equipment.

California's secretary of state and supporters of the recall have challenged the decision. They say they will appeal to the United States Supreme Court if necessary.


Link


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 20 years, 29 days
Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1930473 - 09/18/03 08:37 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Damn, so they are relying on a study Berkeley did that a voting machine company paid for. "Above reproach" my ass.

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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Sounds as if they think minorities are too stupid to vote. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1930475 - 09/18/03 08:37 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

no matter what, I always find it troubling when interested
parties are found to be the funders of research that they
wind up using to support their causes.

even if berkely did a good job on the study...it's still got
the taint.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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